Naswarville

[Dillinger]

Abaiii tu yeh discuss cheeezeiin aiseee kartaaa haiii that either of the PN or IN Officers would be logging onto PDF reading your views & thinking ''Oyee....I never thought of that....write that down sailor & 'following' this Lemur's musings''

We have not had a proper exercise along these lines (as per my knowledge and most definitely not with an AC with MR platforms), simply expressing my view..obvio the folks serving in the PN and the IN have thought over (perhaps even discarded the same as inane) what I am expressing here.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

That is true. Yet one would like to see a higher quantum of combined arms exercises at sea. We need to get the boys at Jamnagar and Pune used to navigating and operating over the waves so as to ensure that the enemy cannot "out-flank" the ships so to say. But all in good time I guess..all in good time.

All of that has been happening for quite some time already. Every Naval Exercise has IAF aircraft involved both as Blue Force and Red Force. All the eqpt is there, the SOPs are there in place; what do you need now?

Now with increasing IN air assets; viz the Vikramaditya Air-Group as well as the growing Poseidon fleet; the IN's side of the "bargain is growing heavier still". Just the Bears and the Mays were stretched to their limits.

Chuck in another operating IN Air Base at Porbandar; even better. IN is already operating UAV flights regularly in that region.

The IAF and IN have little (if any) issues regarding air-power; which plagued them in earlier years. Their spheres of responsibility have been clearly demarcated and understood. Not many grounds for pessimism.

 

[Dillinger]

All of that has been happening for quite some time already. Every Naval Exercise has IAF aircraft involved both as Blue Force and Red Force. All the eqpt is there, the SOPs are there in place; what do you need now?

Now with increasing IN air assets; viz the Vikramaditya Air-Group as well as the growing Poseidon fleet; the IN's side of the "bargain is growing heavier still". Just the Bears and the Mays were stretched to their limits.

Chuck in another operating IN Air Base at Porbandar; even better. IN is already operating UAV flights regularly in that region.

The IAF and IN have little (if any) issues regarding air-power; which plagued them in earlier years. Their spheres of responsibility have been clearly demarcated and understood. Not may grounds for pessimism.

Now that is welcome news. I have this amateur's version of a doctrine stuck in my head, would have loved to see it come true, sometimes I cannot help but indulge my fantasies despite warning other posters that operational doctrine is not dictated by our whims and fancies (I know its hypocritical).

 

[Pakistanisage]

I was fine until you guys decided to send in your ex-InHouse-Monster over there in a very bummed out state of mind.

Hey @VCheng, welcome back. Seeing you after a long time. Good to see you back.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

That is true. Yet one would like to see a higher quantum of combined arms exercises at sea. We need to get the boys at Jamnagar and Pune used to navigating and operating over the waves so as to ensure that the enemy cannot "out-flank" the ships so to say. But all in good time I guess..all in good time.

@Dillinger; the underlined part of your post just got my eye.
Earlier on, the IAF aircraft like Liberators, Super-Connies and Canberras flew/navigated over the seas/oceans by a method called DR (Dead Reckoning) Navigation which involved only the use of a stop-watch and compass. It was a mainly a mathematical exercise which could land the aircraft anywhere depending on the amount of cumulative errors. The Liberators and Connies being slow-flying could even take an astro-fix from the Sun (in day-time) and Moon/Stars (in night-time) to reduce the errors some what. But Navigation was still largely hit-or-miss. The Canberras had a device called "Green Satin" that operated from a land-based beacon, but that was not much good over the sea. Return to base involved homing in on a radio-beacon transmission which was easier. So the part where the flyer was "feet wet" (over water) could even become hairy or funny (depending on the situation) till the flyer became "feet dry" (crossed the coast) again.

Now the shore-based aircraft have INS and GPS to tell them where they are; so its no big deal anymore wrt what you have written there.

 

[Dillinger]

@Dillinger; the underlined part of your post just got my eye.
Earlier on, the IAF aircraft like Liberators, Super-Connies and Canberras flew/navigated over the seas/oceans by a method called DR (Dead Reckoning) Navigation which involved only the use of a stop-watch and compass. It was a mainly a mathematical exercise which could land the aircraft anywhere depending on the amount of cumulative errors. The Liberators and Connies being slow-flying could even take an astro-fix from the Sun (in day-time) and Moon/Stars (in night-time) to reduce the errors some what. But Navigation was still largely hit-or-miss. The Canberras had a device called "Green Satin" that operated from a land-based beacon, but that was not much good over the sea. Return to base involved homing in on a radio-beacon transmission which was easier. So the part where the flyer was "feet wet" (over water) could even become hairy or funny (depending on the situation) till the flyer became "feet dry" (crossed the coast) again.

Now the shore-based aircraft have INS and GPS to tell them where they are; so its no big deal anymore wrt what you have written there.

True. But I believe that the intro of the AC warrants another round of exercises, no? Specially to gauge what sort of cover can be provided to the CBG by over-land ISR/AEW&C- that is one thing I believe we have never worked out- or did we give that a go too with Vikrant and a Phalcon?

Its always a joy to get these tidbits out of you...

 

[Alpha1]

and finally he returns -
did you get tired of bugging PWheelers????


-- .

u there too???

 

[Capt.Popeye]

True. But I believe that the intro of the AC warrants another round of exercises, no? Specially to gauge what sort of cover can be provided to the CBG by over-land ISR/AEW&C- that is one thing I believe we have never worked out- or did we give that a go too with Vikrant and a Phalcon?

Its always a joy to get these tidbits out of you...

All that will be part of the Carriers "Working Up" Program. The Commissioning Crew will have to be on their toes for a year+ from now on.

 

[Dillinger]

All that will be part of the Carriers "Working Up" Program. The Commissioning Crew will have to be on their toes for a year+ from now on.

A Phalcon from Jamnagar with more than 9 hours ETOS- (conservative figures used wrt detection range of fighter sized targets).

An E-2C approximately 350-400Km off the coast of Pakistan and located 150 nm "ahead" of the AC itself with ETOS at 5 hours.

Amateur yes, but exciting nonetheless.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

A Phalcon from Jamnagar with more than 9 hours ETOS- (conservative figures used wrt detection range of fighter sized targets).

An E-2C approximately 350-400Km off the coast of Pakistan and located a 150 nm "ahead" of the AC itself with ETOS at 5 hours.

Amateur yes, but exciting nonetheless.

Right now; with the present status of the forces on either side; little work for the Phalcons to do.

 

[Dillinger]

Right now; with the present status of the forces on either side; little work for the Phalcons to do.

I am thinking 25 and beyond with the Vishal- something I like to call the "FAD"- Fly and Die.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I am thinking 25 and beyond with the Vishal- something I like to call the "FAD"- Fly and Die.

Well; is'nt that what all the planning and acquisitions are for?

 

[Dillinger]

Well; is'nt that what all the planning and acquisitions are for?

They don't call it FAD, I coined that term..

Btw, why haven't you applied for the "professional" status, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Levina]

Abaiii tu yeh discuss cheeezeiin aiseee kartaaa haiii that either of the PN or IN Officers would be logging onto PDF reading your views & thinking ''Oyee....I never thought of that....write that down sailor & 'following' this Lemur's musings''

You noticed that didnt you??

Are sure this guy is a mech engineer turned into a CA???
Any proof???

(((( ))))

 

[Dillinger]

You noticed that didnt you??

Are sure this guy is a mech engineer turned into a CA???
Any proof???

(((( ))))

I am NOT an engineer of any sorts, who gave you that harebrained notion?

@Armstrong have you been feeding this poor sap lies?