Nasr VS Parhaar | First Detailed Analysis.

[A G 1046]

That is because Parhaar and Nasr are not the same class of missiles. The Parhaar is a Short Range Ballistic Missile designed to Replace prithvi series while Nasr is a Battlefield Range Ballistic Missile which will replace the Hatf1 series.

Parhaar has more range and more payload but it also is not as maneuverable and fast as Nasr, you will get the confirmation once i my hands on more data. For Parhaar we have Abdaali and Ghaznavi series to respond with.

Lastly, Parhaar is also a threat for China, which means we can use that mutual threat perception as a reason for further missile technology/counter missile technology developments.

two things

1. ask the OP who started by compaering the two missiles & how did china came into picture 150 KM rangea threat for china are you sireous or is it that pakistanies when cant deny there weakness bring china as face saver

2.who told you that prahaar is not as good or even better than Nasr in Maneuverable ...well your a MODS so ..........

 

[acid rain]

@Capt.Popeye, basing on its usage to carry possibly deadlier payloads....wouldnt Prahaar be a very useful weapon for our northern border too...in the event that Indian forces get overwhelmed there by chinese troops and artillery?.

 

[The Deterrent]

@AhaseebA;
You do need to calibrate that response a little further; Prahaar is at the outset designed to carry warheads of different kinds, but that does not preclude the mounting of Nuclear Warheads.
You do need to understand that India has not predicated the use of TNWs as part of its Nuclear Warfare Doctrines. It is primarily based on Strategic Nuclear Weapons; but does that rule out both the possibility and capability to use TNWs?

I never said that Prahaar cannot deliver a nuclear munition. The capability is definitely there, but what I'm saying is:
1. It was not meant to deliver nuclear payloads.
2. So far, India does not possesses compact TNWs, so it is not advisable to include TNW in the "types of warheads".

All that is clearly reflected in the design parameters of Prahaar; it is a precision missile therefore. Its precision ability is also therefore different, (read-superior) to Nasr. It needs to be; to comply with its primary doctrinal requirement.

Prahaar being superior to Nasr in terms of precision is just an assumption, based on unavailability of data. Pakistan is currently in the process of upgrading the guidance systems with satellite navigation, so single digit accuracy (which Pakistan will never boast of in press releases) is found on the other side of the border too.

Most of all remember; that Nasr is intended to be a 'defensive weapon'. Though a weapon of last defence. Its use is as a "Hara-Kiri" weapon. And its use will result in exponentially increasing the Nuclear Stakes in the conflict by a "factor of infinity".
As a WMD- But here WMD stands for Weapon of Mighty Desperation. Because its use will simply lead to the letting loose of a Nuclear Holocaust. Do also remember that, in the "first use" of the Nasr; there will be "Blue Casualties" ie casualties of own troops .

ALL WMDs represent desperation.
The blue causalities depend on the scenario under which it is used.

You need to factor that point in discussing the Prahaar and Nasr and attempting to draw up any comparison between them.

I'm not comparing them! And since they differ so much in capabilities and purposes, I also advised others not to compare them.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

@Capt.Popeye, basing on its usage to carry possibly deadlier payloads....wouldnt Prahaar be a very useful weapon for our northern border too...in the event that Indian forces get overwhelmed there by chinese troops and artillery?.

Prahaar can be and will be deployed on both fronts. It is designed to be so.

 

[Kompromat]

Based on the comparison, Prahaar comes on top and seems to be a better platform than Nasr(this version).
Is there a planned upgrade for Nasr in pipeline. Another comparison point could be price per unit and numbers to be deployed.

They haven't been compared for their 'Capabilities' but for their 'Deployment Philosophy'.

 

[acid rain]

Prahaar can be and will be deployed on both fronts. It is designed to be so.

So Pakistans Nasr doctrine can become India's Prahaar doctrine against chinese in an overwhemed scenario. India needs to perfect this as a last possible resort.

They haven't been compared for their 'Capabilities' but for their 'Deployment Philosophy'.

Oh.....ok.

 

[A G 1046]

I never said that Prahaar cannot deliver a nuclear munition. The capability is definitely there, but what I'm saying is:
1. It was not meant to deliver nuclear payloads.
2. So far, India does not possesses compact TNWs, so it is not advisable to include TNW in the "types of warheads".




Prahaar being superior to Nasr in terms of precision is just an assumption, based on unavailability of data. Pakistan is currently in the process of upgrading the guidance systems with satellite navigation, so single digit accuracy (which Pakistan will never boast of in press releases) is found on the other side of the border too.



ALL WMDs represent desperation.
The blue causalities depend on the scenario under which it is used.


I'm not comparing them! And since they differ so much in capabilities and purposes, I also advised others not to compare them.

who told you that India does not have so called TNWs secondli as CP earlier told Prahaar is a spin of AAD missile so it has to be highli manevourable at high speeds

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I never said that Prahaar cannot deliver a nuclear munition. The capability is definitely there, but what I'm saying is:
1. It was not meant to deliver nuclear payloads.
2. So far, India does not possesses compact TNWs, so it is not advisable to include TNW in the "types of warheads".

Point No.2: Do not make an assumption.

Prahaar being superior to Nasr in terms of precision is just an assumption, based on unavailability of data. Pakistan is currently in the process of upgrading the guidance systems with satellite navigation, so single digit accuracy (which Pakistan will never boast of in press releases) is found on the other side of the border too.

Again, do not make an assumption.
I'm saying that quite seriously, in fact.

ALL WMDs represent desperation.
The blue causalities depend on the scenario under which it is used.

Of course all Nuclear WMDs are related to desperation.
But being willing to use Nukes on one's own territory; represents even greater desperation. Therefore TNWs are really the ultimate "Hara-Kiri weapons".

I'm not comparing them! And since they differ so much in capabilities and purposes, I also advised others not to compare them.

Agreed!
Hence the comparisons are fallacious; just as this very thread is.

The two of them have been designed with different parameters as well as different utilities.

 

[The Deterrent]

who told you that India does not have so called TNWs secondli as CP earlier told Prahaar is a spin of AAD missile so it has to be highli manevourable at high speeds

Angels. They whisper things in my ear.
I know it is a spin-off of AAD. It does not needs to be highly maneuverable, you are not hitting racing tanks with Prahaar.

 

[The Deterrent]

Point No.2: Do not make an assumption.

I had to, given the amount of "openness" Indian defence industries have regarding information dispersal.

Again, do not make an assumption.
I'm saying that quite seriously, in fact.

Sure, discard that claim if you wish.

Of course all Nuclear WMDs are related to desperation.
But being willing to use Nukes on one's own territory; represents even greater desperation. Therefore TNWs are really the ultimate "Hara-Kiri weapons".

Considering the strength of our military forces compared to Indian forces, and the lack of "strategic depth", I think it is not a bad option to develop them. Just ask the Israelis, they'll explain it to you

Agreed!
Hence the comparisons are fallacious; just as this very thread is.

The two of them have been designed with different parameters as well as different utilities.

Yep.

 

[[Bregs]]

what ever be the comparison these weapons are best if they act as deterrent and not good when used in war

 

[rockstarIN]

Yes, no doubt India has the capability to develop a mature tactical platform.
I don't agree with the second part, DRDO's officials disclose a lot of things about their weapons systems, even months before they are actually tested. If Prahaar was nuclear capable, it would've been out in the media, presented as a response to Pakistan's TNWs, for consumption of local masses. The term "different warheads" in Prahaar's case refers to multiple types of conventional munitions e.g. unitary HE, Fuel air explosive, blast fragmentation (for radar sites), bunker-buster and cluster bomblets.

I disagree, anything about strategic weapons, be it nuke or nuclear sub etc will indeed top secret in India. You can see that pattern in our response.


Do not take other DRDO press releases like this. For others, they need budget allocation as well as nod from the armed forces. But in strategic weapons, there is no pressure on them nor on IA or govt.

 

[Manticore]

_________________________MISSILE
A missile is a guided weapon having the ability to control its trajectory. It may or may not be propelled by a rocket.
Many (but not all) guided missiles use rockets as their principal source of propulsion eg sidewinder





______________________BASED ON TRAJECTORY

* A quasi ballistic missile (also called a semi ballistic missile) is a category of missile that has a low trajectory and/or is largely ballistic but can perform maneuvers in flight or make unexpected changes in direction and range.

At a lower trajectory than a ballistic missile, a quasi ballistic missile can maintain higher speed, thus allowing its target less time to react to the attack, at the cost of reduced range.

* A ballistic missile is a missile that follows a sub-orbital ballistic flightpath with the objective of delivering one or more warheads to a predetermined target.

* cruise missilies are terrain hugging missiles which are self-navigating, and can fly on a non-ballistic, extremely low altitude trajectory


_______________________BASED ON RANGE

*tactical ballistic missile : range is less than 300 kilometres
*(BRBM): Range less than 200 km
*(TBM): Range between 300 km and 3500 km
*(SRBM): Range 1000 km or less
*(MRBM): Range between 1000 km and 3500 km
*(IRBM) or long-range ballistic missile (LRBM): Range between 3500 km and 5500 km
*(ICBM): Range greater than 5500 km
*(SLBM): Launched from ballistic missile submarines (SSBNs), all current designs have intercontinental range.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
rockets

Once thrown, there is no further correction for the trajectory of that rocket

The term "rocket" has been used ever since the Chinese first built them with black powder 500 years (?) ago even though they relied on the oxygen in the air to burn. In modern day dialogues, the use of the word "rocket" implies that a liquid fueled engine has it's own oxidizer on board, typically LOX. But not always.

Solid fueled boosters are said to use a propellent that contains it's own oxidizer so the inconsistency spreads the confusion. They too are rockets but we call them "boosters". Why? I haven't a clue!




projectile, bullet
Cannon shells are referred to as "projectiles" or "shells" when over a certain diameter and bullets when smaller.


http://www.defence.pk/forums/wmd-missiles/99968-medium-range-ballistic-missiles.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/wmd-missiles/99878-standoff-missiles.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/wmd-missiles/103666-guided-missiles-working.html



Pakistani Quasi ballistic missiles and comparison with their contemporaries
_________________________________________________________________


Hatf IX (NASR) - pakistan

Operationalrange range of 60 +km, carries tactical plotonium based nuclear warheads of appropriate yield

Guidancesystem INS , GPS and electro optical guidance seeker for terminal giudance -high accuracy, shoot and scoot attributes.

Platform--SINGLE TEL--2 box tubes launcher/ vehicle

Manouverability-- control surfaces behind the nose and at the tail

Propellant [as in most missiles , read the above qoute before spamming]- solid state rocket

Pakistan Military Review: Hatf IX NASR Multi Tube Ballistic Missile System

http://www.defence.pk/forums/land-warfare/104441-quasi-ballistic-missiles.html

 

[Manticore]

http://www.fas.org/nuke/hew/Nwfaq/Nfaq4-2.html#Nfaq4.2.3

"The absolute minimum possible mass for a bomb is determined by the smallest critical mass that will produce a significant yield. Since the critical mass for alpha-phase plutonium is 10.5 kg, and an additional 20-25% of mass is needed to make a significant explosion, this implies 13 kg or so."

"The smallest nuclear weapons actually deployed have had yields around 10 tons (like the W54), and have been intended for short range tactical or nuclear demolition use (e.g. blowing up roads and bridges)."

Nuclear Weapons Frequently Asked Questions

Engineering and Design of Nuclear Weapons

Low Yield Weapons :
4.2 Fission Weapon Designs

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...ti-tube-ballistic-missile-16.html#post1686927

"Theoretically, 1 kilogram of weapons-grade plutonium boosted with 4-5 grams of tritium gives a 10-20KT yield, provided the trigger is sophisticated," Ahmed said. "However, the diameter size of Nasr suggests that the warhead would be less than 1 kilogram, and would be of sub-kiloton range, suitable for battlefield use and could be a fission boosted sub-kiloton fission device."Pakistan will now "not accept any cap in plutonium production in the foreseeable future," he said.Pakistan Tests 'Nuke-Capable' Short-Range Missile - Defense News

http://www.defence.pk/forums/land-warfare/104441-quasi-ballistic-missiles-4.html#post1691240

 

[OrionHunter]

CEP of Prahar is < 10 m. Which is pretty good considering its max range. What about Nasr? Why hasn't this parameter been included in the above comparison table? Seems this has been conveniently left out. This raises suspicion that the nasr is far from accurate!

Anyone can throw some light on this? (Please don't quote blogs!)