Nasr VS Parhaar | First Detailed Analysis.

[kurup]

NASR has a 500 kg warhead (unconfirmed) can carry several types for warheads including TNs.. while prahaar has 200 kg... no TN warhead.

In one of the previous conversations @AhaseebA said that the payload capacity of Nasr is around 100kg .

May be he will explain it better .

 

[Kompromat]

In one of the previous conversations @AhaseebA said that the payload capacity of Nasr is around 100kg .

May be he will explain it better .

Its his estimate. Remember that Nasr is a dedicated TNW transport and delivery vehicle, it has been designed for a 'niche' purpose.

 

[The Deterrent]

In one of the previous conversations @AhaseebA said that the payload capacity of Nasr is around 100kg .

May be he will explain it better .

100kg payload is just a modest estimate, it may be 20-30 kg higher. But it is definitely not 500kg. The dimensions of the system simply cannot support a large payload like that.

CEP of Prahar is < 10 m. Which is pretty good considering its max range. What about Nasr? Why hasn't this parameter been included in the above comparison table? Seems this has been conveniently left out. This raises suspicion that the nasr is far from accurate!

Anyone can throw some light on this? (Please don't quote blogs!)

The data for Nasr's flight parameters is unavailable for public, just like many other missiles of Pakistan. This does not means that its CEP is higher.

 

[kurup]

Its his estimate. Remember that Nasr is a dedicated TNW transport and delivery vehicle, it has been designed for a 'niche' purpose.

If the TNW is compact enough to be within/around the said weight capacity and considering the fact that Nasr is developed specifically for carrying it , then we can safely assume that payload capacity doesnot need to be any higher .

CEP of Prahar is < 10 m.

Acoording to the latest interview by Avinash Chander , Prahar has a CEP of 2m .

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/273061-new-interview-avinash-chander-drdo-chief.html

 

[Umair Nawaz]

I said "unconfirmed" .. sources quoting the figure seem shaddy.. but again we dnt know much nassr anyways.

its payload is less then a kilo. The nuke device it will carry will be less then a kilo over Indian IBGs. Or do u think we r so stupid to say that we will use it in our Soil on enemy when we know enemy also has Nukes?

The Purpose will be to knockout IBGs or kill Crew from this small strike so they r not able to advance deep in our land.

 

[kurup]

its payload is less then a kilo. The nuke device it will carry will be less then a kilo over Indian IBGs. Or do u think we r so stupid to say that we will use it in our Soil on enemy when we know enemy also has Nukes?

The Purpose will be to knockout IBGs or kill Crew from this small strike so they r not able to advance deep in our land.

The yield of the Tactical Nuclear Weapon is supposed to be less than a KT not the payload .

 

[Umair Nawaz]

The yield of the Tactical Nuclear Weapon is supposed to be less than a KT not the payload .

Im telling what i heard it may not be true.

 

[kurup]

Im telling what i heard it may not be true.

Do you think anybody can develope a nuclear weapon which weighs less than a kilo ???

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Do you think anybody can develope a nuclear weapon which weighs less than a kilo ???

im not expert @AhaseebA

 

[The Deterrent]

im not expert @AhaseebA

I'm no expert either

If by "1 kilo" you meant 1 kiloton of TNT (equivalent explosive yield) generated by a Nasr deliverable TNW, then you are correct. The usual yields of TNWs are similar, although Nuclear Artillery Shells have been developed in the past by USA of 17kt yield (280mm shell).

But if by "1 kilo" you meant 1 kilogram of fissionable material (plutonium), then you are wrong. Atleast 5kg of Pu is needed to get a considerably high yield ( a few hundred tons of TNT). The nuclear device would weigh ~30-40 kg, because of the heavier HE explosive lenses surrounding the core. The electronics and other subsystems would make it even heavier, so you are looking at a roughly 40-60kg tactical nuclear warhead at best.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

im not expert @AhaseebA

no most tactical nukes are in 35-180 kg range for subkiloton to a kiloton blast yield

60 kg W48 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
35 kg Davy Crockett (nuclear device) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Do you think anybody can develope a nuclear weapon which weighs less than a kilo ???

post#74 has yr answer.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

100kg payload is just a modest estimate, it may be 20-30 kg higher. But it is definitely not 500kg. The dimensions of the system simply cannot support a large payload like that.



The data for Nasr's flight parameters is unavailable for public, just like many other missiles of Pakistan. This does not means that its CEP is higher.

its less then a kilo. read post#74

no most tactical nukes are in 35-180 kg range for subkiloton to a kiloton blast yield

60 kg W48 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
35 kg Davy Crockett (nuclear device) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pakistan had made world's smallest nuke device before we came to know abt Nasr. Dr samarkand Mubarak announced it.

read post#74

 

[kurup]

I'm no expert either

If by "1 kilo" you meant 1 kiloton of TNT (equivalent explosive yield) generated by a Nasr deliverable TNW, then you are correct. The usual yields of TNWs are similar, although Nuclear Artillery Shells have been developed in the past by USA of 17kt yield (280mm shell).

But if by "1 kilo" you meant 1 kilogram of fissionable material (plutonium), then you are wrong. Atleast 5kg of Pu is needed to get a considerably high yield ( a few hundred tons of TNT). The nuclear device would weigh ~30-40 kg, because of the heavier HE explosive lenses surrounding the core. The electronics and other subsystems would make it even heavier, so you are looking at a roughly 40-60kg tactical nuclear warhead at best.

Can you please answer this ???

"Theoretically, 1 kilogram of weapons-grade plutonium boosted with 4-5 grams of tritium gives a 10-20KT yield, provided the trigger is sophisticated," Ahmed said. "However, the diameter size of Nasr suggests that the warhead would be less than 1 kilogram, and would be of sub-kiloton range, suitable for battlefield use and could be a fission boosted sub-kiloton fission device."Pakistan will now "not accept any cap in plutonium production in the foreseeable future," he said.Pakistan Tests 'Nuke-Capable' Short-Range Missile - Defense News

 

[The Deterrent]

its less then a kilo. read post#74

Can you please answer this ???

"Theoretically, 1 kilogram of weapons-grade plutonium boosted with 4-5 grams of tritium gives a 10-20KT yield, provided the trigger is sophisticated," Ahmed said. "However, the diameter size of Nasr suggests that the warhead would be less than 1 kilogram, and would be of sub-kiloton range, suitable for battlefield use and could be a fission boosted sub-kiloton fission device."Pakistan will now "not accept any cap in plutonium production in the foreseeable future," he said.Pakistan Tests 'Nuke-Capable' Short-Range Missile - Defense News

I'm sure that the statement of this guy has been misquoted and misunderstood. Let me highlight (bold & underlined) and rectify (red colored) the relevant part, and then I will present my argument:

Theoretically, 1 kilogram of weapons-grade plutonium boosted with 4-5 grams of tritium gives a 10-20KT yield, provided the trigger is sophisticated," Ahmed said. "However, the diameter size of Nasr suggests that the warhead would produce 1 kiloton explosion, and would be of sub-kiloton range, suitable for battlefield use and could be a fission boosted sub-kiloton fission device."

Why do I think that this statement has been misquoted? Because he first talked about a theoretical, perfect TNW. But then he acknowledged the practical limitations and estimated the weapon yield.

Now for the tactical nuclear weapon core part:


Can a TNW with a 1kg Pu core be made?

Yes, it can be. But it would require a very efficient detonation mechanism, such as the Flying Plate design, in which a flatter sort of implosion is done and a relatively larger hollow core is used. This arrangement increases the volume of the warhead, so it is not practical. Furthermore, The mass of the implosion system, and the tamper/reflector will result in greater overall mass even though the core weight is less.

What if minimum size/diameter is the requirement?

In this case, practical limitations are high, for example for a 155mm artillery shell design. So tamper/reflector are best omitted from the design to reduce diameter, and a high mass core is used instead (10-13kg of Pu) to achieve a ~250 ton explosion. The reason for this low yield despite usage of a larger core is the Linear Implosion design, which HAS to be used in this case. Obviously, this design is very costly and impractical.

So what type of warhead Nasr might be using?

Nasr has an estimated diameter of 300mm, which allows for a possible Spherical Implosion design (threshold is at ~260mm). This design has higher efficiency than the linear one, but still 4-5kg of Pu is required, because the thickness of tamper/reflector and the number of HE explosive lenses is very less due to limited diameter. Assuming that only weapons grade Pu is used in the core, a 4-5kg core could produce 0.3-0.5 kt yield. With tritium boosting, it could be further enhanced to 1kt.