Nader Shah - The second Alexander

[bandit]

Not enough if you ask me, they deserved what they got, we will pay them a visit again at the earliest opportunity.

i see the savages are still savages.

We aint worried too much though, the US drones and Pakistani army are killing your breed off pretty quick.

 

[niaz]

Nader Shah was certainly no Alexander but he was a man of extra ordinary military ability. His main problem was that he came from a very humble background and it was difficult for the Iranian Grandees to accept him as their sovereign. Nader Shah therefore used age old tactics of cruelty to instil fear in his enemies and would be rebels. As a student of history, I admire him for his general ship but thats about it.

Karim Khan Zand, who ruled Iran for 20 years immediately after the fall of Afsharids, was a statesman and a benevolent ruler who opened up Iran for foreign trade and was a patron of poets and artists. Karim Khan also reorganised Iranian finances. Compared to Karim Khan, Nadir Shah comes out as nothing but a bloodthirsty military genius.

Ironically both the Afsharid & the Zand dynasties lasted only about 50 years each.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

It is interesting how Pak posters align themselves with Shia Persians little realizing that they were on the receiving end of Nadir Shah themselves too !

Nadir Shah was Turkic Sunni from modern-day North-Eastern Iran, not a Shia Persian.

 

[Pakistanisage]

Alexander was defeated by Raja Porus !

Saach bataoo yar, history mein kitni dafaa FAIL huwai thay ?





Battle of the Hydaspes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

It is interesting how Pak posters align themselves with Shia Persians little realizing that they were on the receiving end of Nadir Shah themselves too !

 

[niaz]

Nadir Shah was Turkic Sunni from modern-day North-Eastern Iran, not a Shia Persian.

Nadir Shah was an Afshar. Afshars are part of the Qizalbash federation which supported the Safavids. Traditionally all the Qizalbash or Crimson head Turkmens are Shias. It is therefore more than likely that Nadir Shah was born a Shia. His father’s name Imam Quli (meaning servant of Imam) is a Shia name. However tradition has it that Nadir Shah was captured by the Uzbeks when he was quite young and it is possibly that he may have become Sunni.

Historically record however suggests that Nadir Shah was neither a staunch Sunni or nor practicing Shia.

Personally I respect Nadir Shah for his moderate beliefs because I am against “Tabarra” that is cursing of first 3 Caliphs which was practiced by the Safavid Iran. I am also against the persecution of Shias by the Sunnis tribes of Central Asia prevalent at that time.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Nadir Shah was an Afshar. Afshars are part of the Qizalbash federation which supported the Safavids. Traditionally all the Qizalbash or Crimson head Turkmens are Shias. It is therefore more than likely that Nadir Shah was born a Shia. His father’s name Imam Quli (meaning servant of Imam) is a Shia name. However tradition has it that Nadir Shah was captured by the Uzbeks when he was quite young and it is possibly that he may have become Sunni.

Historically record however suggests that Nadir Shah was neither a staunch Sunni or nor practicing Shia.

Personally I respect Nadir Shah for his moderate beliefs because I am against “Tabarra” that is cursing of first 3 Caliphs which was practiced by the Safavid Iran. I am also against the persecution of Shias by the Sunnis tribes of Central Asia prevalent at that time.

Thank you for this bit of knowledge. It is off-topic but since we are discussing history , What do you know the ethnic background of the the Ghorids of the 12th century ? Particularly Shahabuddin Ghauri ?

Some sources suggest he was Turkic , some say he was a Eastern Iranian Persian/ Tajik. What is your understanding ?

 

[Targon]

There are Afshars in Anatolia too, they were pretty crowded and caused many problems to Ottomans with their armed banditry

 

[niaz]

Thank you for this bit of knowledge. It is off-topic but since we are discussing history , What do you know the ethnic background of the the Ghorids of the 12th century ? Particularly Shahabuddin Ghauri ?

Some sources suggest he was Turkic , some say he was a Eastern Iranian Persian/ Tajik. What is your understanding ?

Ghur is a mountainous region watered by the river Harirud which also gives Herat its name. Mainly because the Ghurid Empire lasted barely 50 years, origins of the dynasty which reached its peak during Ghiyasuddin Mohammed and his brother Moizzudin Mohamed bin Sam otherwise known as Shahabuddin Mohammed of Ghur are surrounded in mist.

Ancient Khurasan was vast and the term applied to virtually all the area of Eastern Iran up to the banks of the Amu Darya (River Oxus). Even though Khursan was captured during the late Umayyad period around 750 AD, it was populated largely by Zoroastrians, Buddhists & pagans well into the time of Samanids in the 9th Century.

Historically accepted origin of the word Tajik is Middle Persian tāzīk (‘Arab).’ Hence the pagan Turks of Central Asia adopted a variant of the Iranian word, täžik/ Tajik to designate and all those people who had converted to Islam. Writers of the Ghaznavid, Seljuk and Atābak periods (ca. 1000–1260) adopted the term and extended its use to cover Persians in the rest of Iran, now under Turkish rule as early as end of the 10th century.

Even after 250 of the start of the Abdali Afghan rule, majority in the Ghur province is Farsiwan (Persian speaking). It is therefore doubtful if Ghurids were Pashto speaking. Probably Ghurids, like their adversary Ghaznavids were ethnic Tajiks.

Current fame of the Ghur is due to the brick built Minaret of Jam at Firuzkuh (Turquoise Mountain).

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Nadir Shah was a Qalzalbash!? damn never knew tht... and i guess my Qazalbash frm was right... always thought of him as persian..as in farsi.

Saach bataoo yar, history mein kitni dafaa FAIL huwai thay ?





Battle of the Hydaspes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Firdausi the persian national poet recorded this battle... according to him Porus won..there are several people who wrote the same...

 

[Charon]

Ghur is a mountainous region watered by the river Harirud which also gives Herat its name. Mainly because the Ghurid Empire lasted barely 50 years, origins of the dynasty which reached its peak during Ghiyasuddin Mohammed and his brother Moizzudin Mohamed bin Sam otherwise known as Shahabuddin Mohammed of Ghur are surrounded in mist.

Ancient Khurasan was vast and the term applied to virtually all the area of Eastern Iran up to the banks of the Amu Darya (River Oxus). Even though Khursan was captured during the late Umayyad period around 750 AD, it was populated largely by Zoroastrians, Buddhists & pagans well into the time of Samanids in the 9th Century.

Historically accepted origin of the word Tajik is Middle Persian tāzīk (‘Arab).’ Hence the pagan Turks of Central Asia adopted a variant of the Iranian word, täžik/ Tajik to designate and all those people who had converted to Islam. Writers of the Ghaznavid, Seljuk and Atābak periods (ca. 1000–1260) adopted the term and extended its use to cover Persians in the rest of Iran, now under Turkish rule as early as end of the 10th century.

Even after 250 of the start of the Abdali Afghan rule, majority in the Ghur province is Farsiwan (Persian speaking). It is therefore doubtful if Ghurids were Pashto speaking. Probably Ghurids, like their adversary Ghaznavids were ethnic Tajiks.

Current fame of the Ghur is due to the brick built Minaret of Jam at Firuzkuh (Turquoise Mountain).

Ghorids were probably ethnically Iranic but definitely not Ghaznavids. The founder of the Ghaznavid empire was a former Turkic slave-solider from the Samanids called Sabuktigin

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Ghur is a mountainous region watered by the river Harirud which also gives Herat its name. Mainly because the Ghurid Empire lasted barely 50 years, origins of the dynasty which reached its peak during Ghiyasuddin Mohammed and his brother Moizzudin Mohamed bin Sam otherwise known as Shahabuddin Mohammed of Ghur are surrounded in mist.

Ancient Khurasan was vast and the term applied to virtually all the area of Eastern Iran up to the banks of the Amu Darya (River Oxus). Even though Khursan was captured during the late Umayyad period around 750 AD, it was populated largely by Zoroastrians, Buddhists & pagans well into the time of Samanids in the 9th Century.

Historically accepted origin of the word Tajik is Middle Persian tāzīk (‘Arab).’ Hence the pagan Turks of Central Asia adopted a variant of the Iranian word, täžik/ Tajik to designate and all those people who had converted to Islam. Writers of the Ghaznavid, Seljuk and Atābak periods (ca. 1000–1260) adopted the term and extended its use to cover Persians in the rest of Iran, now under Turkish rule as early as end of the 10th century.

Even after 250 of the start of the Abdali Afghan rule, majority in the Ghur province is Farsiwan (Persian speaking). It is therefore doubtful if Ghurids were Pashto speaking. Probably Ghurids, like their adversary Ghaznavids were ethnic Tajiks.

Current fame of the Ghur is due to the brick built Minaret of Jam at Firuzkuh (Turquoise Mountain).

That is the closest estimate people make about the Ghorids but the Ghaznavids were certainly Turkics and not Tajik Persians. That is settled from a lot of historical sources.

 

[niaz]

Ghorids were probably ethnically Iranic but definitely not Ghaznavids. The founder of the Ghaznavid empire was a former Turkic slave-solider from the Samanids called Sabuktigin

My source is Tabqaat –e –Naseri, written by Minhaj Siraj and translated by Ghulam Rasul Mehar into Urdu.

The writer Minhaj Siraj is grandson of Maulan Abul Khaliq who was married to one of the daughters of Sultan Mahmud of Ghazni. He was born circa 1193 AD. The book was completed around 1260 AD and named after Sultan Nasiruddin Mahmoud (1246 – 1266) 8th ruler of the Slave Dynasty.
The book claims that Subuktegin was from the progeny of the last Sassanian Prince Yazdjerd Shehariyar.

However, the name Subuktegin (father of Mahmud) is definitely of Turkish origin. Ghaznavids were so thoroughly Persianized that it difficult to classify them as Turkish, perhaps that is why author of Tabqaat –e –Naseri links them with Iranian ancestry. I apologize for my error.

 

[The_Showstopper]

Alexander was defeated by Raja Porus !

Infact Porus was defeated by Alexander but it could very well have been the other way round....

 

[Targon]

niaz, definietly made up to strenghten position.

They were normally mostly Persianized, because it was not even a native Turkic dynasty, it was just a bunch of Turkic slaves.