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Myth shatterd "india won 65 war?"

MORE QUOTES:


“India’s barbarity is mounting in fury as the Indian army and Air Force, severely mauled, are showing signs of demoralisation. The huge losses suffered by the Indian Armed Forces during the last 12 days of fighting could not be kept from the Indian public and in retaliation, the Indian armed forces are indulging in the most barbaric methods.”

“The Chief of Indian Air Force could no longer ensure the safety of Indian air space.A well known Indian journalist, Mr Frank Moraes, in a talk from All-india radio, alsoadmitted that IAF had suffered severe losses and it was no use hiding the fact and India should be prepared for more losses.“

Indonesian Herald, September 11, 1965.



and even more ...


“One thing I am convinced of is that Pakistan morally and even physically won the air battle against immense odds.“

“Although the Air Force gladly gives most credit to the Army, this is perhaps over-generous. India with roughly five times greater air-power, expected an easy air-superiority. Her total failure to attain it may be seen retrospectively as a vital, possibly the most vital, of the whole conflict.”

“Nur Khan is an alert, incisive man of 41, who seems even less. For six years he was on secondment and responsible for running Pakistan’s civil air-line, which, in a country where ‘now’ means sometime and ’sometime’ means never, is a model of efficiency. he talks without the jargon of a press relations officer. He does not quibble abobut figures. Immediately one has confidence in what he says.”

“His estimates, proffered diffidently but with as much photographic evidence as possible, speak for themselves. Indian and Pakistani losses, he thinks, are in something like the ration of ten to one.”

“Yet, the quality of equipment, Nur insists, is less important than flying ability and determination. The Indians have no sense of purpose. The Pakistanis were defending their own country and willingly taking greater risks. ‘The average bomber crews flew 15 to 20 sorties. My difficulty was restraining them, not pushing them on.‘ “

“This is more than nationalistic pride. Talk to the pilots themselves and you get the same intense story.”

Peter Preston, The Guardian, London – September 24, 1965.
 
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AND THE PIECE DE RESISTANCE ............



“Indian pilots are inferior to Pakistan’s pilots and Indian officers’ leadership has been generally deplorable. India is being soundly beaten by a nation which is outnumbered by a four and a half to one in population and three to one three to one in size of armed forces.”

Sunday Times, London, September 19, 1965.




HISTORY DOESNT LIE. STALEMATE, MY ***. :cheers:
 
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s6 Demon, The very fact that these quotes (source pls) go beyond reporting makes them just opinions.

Secondly, why not look for other quotes (with sources) that are on the 1965 wikipedia page from time magazine etc? They are about the overall war, they clearly state how pakistan 'won' the war.

You are falling prey to your own propoganda.
 
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s6 Demon, The very fact that these quotes (source pls) go beyond reporting makes them just opinions.

Secondly, why not look for other quotes (with sources) that are on the 1965 wikipedia page from time magazine etc? They are about the overall war, they clearly state how pakistan 'won' the war.

You are falling prey to your own propoganda.

The quotes are from an interconnected network of blogs and pages (Zaid Hamid facebook page, Pakistan ka Khuda Hafiz, a user flash posting on WAFF and a weird sexual fetish hungry blog called Pakistanpal)
 
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s6 Demon, The very fact that these quotes (source pls) go beyond reporting makes them just opinions.

You are falling prey to your own propoganda.


there was a source at the bottom of each quote, what the hell is wrong with your eyes??


and oooh yes, the Guardian (UK) and Times of London are MY propaganda.

i swear to God there should be an iq test to be able to make an account on this forum. that should take care of 90% of Indian accounts here.
 
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The quotes are from an interconnected network of blogs and pages (Zaid Hamid facebook page, Pakistan ka Khuda Hafiz, a user flash posting on WAFF and a weird sexual fetish hungry blog called Pakistanpal)


the quotes are not from zaid hamid's page or from a blog.

each quote has its source at the bottom.

what you might be looking at someone's work to make a collection of some of such posts so the history isnt muddled like it is being done by Indians in this thread.
 
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“India’s barbarity is mounting in fury as the Indian army and Air Force, severely mauled, are showing signs of demoralisation. The huge losses suffered by the Indian Armed Forces during the last 12 days of fighting could not be kept from the Indian public and in retaliation, the Indian armed forces are indulging in the most barbaric methods.”

“The Chief of Indian Air Force could no longer ensure the safety of Indian air space.A well known Indian journalist, Mr Frank Moraes, in a talk from All-india radio, alsoadmitted that IAF had suffered severe losses and it was no use hiding the fact and India should be prepared for more losses.“

Indonesian Herald, September 11, 1965.
One tiny quibble. Indonesia was Pakistan's ally during the 1965 war and Indonesian Herald was the Government mouthpiece.

From, India and Southeast Asia: Indian Perceptions and Policies, by Mohammed Ayoob, pg 40-41:

'The divergent stances adopted by Nehru and Sukarno at the First Non-Aligned Summit in Belgrade in September 1961 on anti-colonialism on the one hand and the importance of world peace in a nuclear age on the other, symbolized the beginning of overt deterioration in Indo-Indonesian relations - a process that culminated in the 1963-5 period, which included the Indian moral support to Malayasia in its confrontation with Indonesia and the latter's moral and material support to Pakistan during the India-Pakistan war of September 1965.

That the Indonesian assistance to Pakistan could have led to a direct military confrontation between Indian and Indonesia is borne out by the testimony of a leading expert of Indian naval power, Raju Thomas. According to him, 'Despite the Indian navy's non-participation [in the India-Pakistan war of 1965], some reports indicate that there might have been an Indonesian naval threat during the war. President Sukarno, who had recently acquired a US$1 billion navy from the Soviet Union, had made vague threats to intercede on the Pakistan side. Later, Pakistan's Air Marshal Asghar Khan revealed in his memoirs that Sukarno had in fact offered to divert Indian attention from Pakistan by seizing the Andaman and Nicobar islands in the Bay of Bengal.
'

The quotes from other newspapers can't be verified because their on-line archives hide behind paywalls. In any case these quotes talk mostly of air war and not the overall war.
 
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the quotes are not from zaid hamid's page or from a blog.

each quote has its source at the bottom.

what you might be looking at someone's work to make a collection of some of such posts so the history isnt muddled like it is being done by Indians in this thread.
Those quotes purport to be from those newspapers alright, but are originally referenced from those sites as mentioned by spark.

You are fooling no one. Except yourself of course.
 
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One tiny quibble. Indonesia was Pakistan's ally during the 1965 war and Indonesian Herald was the Government mouthpiece.

The quotes from other newspapers can't be verified because their on-line archives hide behind paywalls. In any case these quotes talk mostly of air war and not the overall war.


indonesian source was one of 4 i put up there. American AND British.

This is the first time ive herd someone use the defence, because "i would have to pay for access, I am gonna assume they are untrue." These quotes are not a new thing, these have been litrally everywhere.

and I am sorry do i even have to start adressing the portion in bold? the last quote from Times of London is not about the PAF, its about the whole war.

At this point you are just looking for any straw. The quotes i put up were in stark opposite to what the a few Indian contributors have been saying that "this is what Pakistanis are taught in schools?" or "it was just a stalemate," when there is mountains and mountains of real documented evidence that says over and over again that India was beaten like a rented mule and the whole world was there to see it.

Indian case has been, "well if i say it long enough i might just start believing it myself."
 
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Those quotes purport to be from those newspapers alright, but are originally referenced from those sites as mentioned by spark.

You are fooling no one. Except yourself of course.


purport from newspapers but "originally" (purport and then origianlly? WTF?) referenced from sites, WHAT? what are you even talking about?
 
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indonesian source was one of 4 i put up there. American AND British.
My quibble was with the Indonesian Herald only. Nothing to do with anything else.

This is the first time ive herd someone use the defence, because "i would have to pay for access, I am gonna assume they are untrue." These quotes are not a new thing, these have been litrally everywhere.
That was not a defense by any stretch of imagination. On the other hand, citing the ubiquitous presence of these quotes you confirm your faith in 'well if i say it long enough i might just start believing it myself'.

and I am sorry do i even have to start adressing the portion in bold? the last quote from Times of London is not about the PAF, its about the whole war.
The qualifier was 'mostly'.

At this point you are just looking for any straw. The quotes i put up were in stark opposite to what the a few Indian contributors have been saying that "this is what Pakistanis are taught in schools?" or "it was just a stalemate," when there is mountains and mountains of real documented evidence that says over and over again that India was beaten like a rented mule and the whole world was there to see it.
Apparently your own generals don't believe that.

Funny part is that even though 'India was beaten like a rented mule' you failed to grab a single inch of Kashmir Valley. I wonder how is it a victory if your objective remains unfulfilled. Further, western experts even believe that after 1965, 'Pakistan had found it difficult to replace the heavy equipment lost during that conflict' and that 'the balance of military power had decisively shifted in favor of India.' (refer Mainsprings of Indian and Pakistani Foreign Policies by S.M.Burke) I wonder what kind of victory puts the victors in disadvantageous position with respect to the vanquished. A Pakistani kind, perhaps.
Indian case has been, "well if i say it long enough i might just start believing it myself."
Projecting your own self.

purport from newspapers but "originally" (purport and then origianlly? WTF?) referenced from sites, WHAT? what are you even talking about?
That these quotes are taken from those sites. Its those sites that claim that the quotes are from those newspapers. Incidentally those sites are notorious for distortion and misquotations, and sometimes even manufacturing quotes. Hence the skepticism.
 
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so lets get this straight. you see those reports and accept they are from across the world and say oppposite of what you and your friends are trying to tell us.

you accept that and yet you still cling to your fantasy? the whole world says one thing and you say another and you claim that they are wrong and you are right. what do you want me say to that?
 
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Check out the following world reputed aviation journals.

USA - Aviation week & space technology - December 1968 issue.
"For the PAF, the 1965 war was as climatic as the Israeli victory over the Arabs in 1967. A further similarity was that Indian air power had an approximately 5:1 numerical superiority at the start of the conflict. Unlike the Middle East conflict, the Pakistani air victory was achieved to a large degree by air-to-air combat rather than on ground. But it was as absolute as that attained by Israel.

UK - Air International - November - 1991
" the average PAF pilot is almost certainly possessed of superior skills when compared with, say, an average American pilot. As to those who are rated above average, they compare favourably to the very best " .
 
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Seems some thriving in self denial have missed 90 minutes.

A reminder is on hand.

SUNDAY TIMES, London, September 19, 1965.

"Pakistan has been able to gain complete command of the air by literally knocking the Indian planes out of the skies if they had not already run away.
Indian pilots are inferior to Pakistan's pilots and Indian officer's leadership has been generally deplorable. India is being soundly beaten by a nation which is outnumbered by a four and half to one in population and three to one in size of armed forces".
 
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