My problem with Rafale, lets start with Radar

[he-man]

Yes this thing has been discussed to death whether its feasable considering the costs etc etc.

But i want to debate it purely on technical grounds,,,,,starting with the radar
Rafale has claimed that aesa radar has 1000 t/r modules but all thepictures clearly suggest about 840 or so modules.Considering this value is way smaller than most modern aesa radars won't it have any effect on performance??range??jamming??

Iam not saying this is useless but its relatively smaller than the competition and it should have been taken into account considering the massive amount we are paying.

Please look at the links provided and answer sensibly purely on technical terms

no jingoism or fanboyism please

 

[duhastmish]

Another issue is number of operators it's just India and France. Again stuck with high cost future development that's where euro fighter takes a leap all other operators have a good aviation development wing. That will cut down on platforms of missiles avionics and frame which might be changed or fur true developed in future. Infact aesa radar was one of the biggest judging criteria where f16 in f35 fa 18 and even euro fighter was ahead in race.

 

[he-man]

Another issue is number of operators it's just India and France. Again stuck with high cost future development that's where euro fighter takes a leap all other operators have a good aviation development wing. That will cut down on platforms of missiles avionics and frame which might be changed or fur true developed in future. Infact aesa radar was one of the biggest judging criteria where f16 in f35 fa 18 and even euro fighter was ahead in race.

The pakfa of russia and then fgfa of india both are gonna be equipped with approx 1500 t/r element frontal aesa radar,,,,2 side facing aesa each with about 400 t/r modules each and 2 l-band aesas and possibly a rear facing aesa!!!

and whats being offered in rafale??

this is a super costly project and there is a reason it has been rejected everywhere it went.
We are better off with russian pakfa(before fgfa comes) than this overpriced thing

 

[Ping]

Rafale's nose cone diameter is even smaller than a MiG-23's! And MAYBE even a Mirage-3!

I hope better sense prevails and MoD of the new govt scraps this MMRCA nonsense and better utilize the money for more urgent needs, like feeding its people properly by constructing grain silos instead of letting thousands of tonnes of food to rot in the open.

 

[GURU DUTT]

quite Rafale as MMRCA and go for a big order(200+) for LCA with latest israeli ASEA, EW suite, AA & A-G wepons+ comformal(hope its the right word) something like a desi SUFA F16 of Israeli Air force + some 50-60 F18 Fs and a squad of F18 growlers

 

[duhastmish]

More over for aesa with Russia we can also get some involvement in development. T50 also have most powerful proposal for aesa. Even better than any current American radar. With longer range missile it will be better proposal. And best part is you don't need multi platform to maintain the same facility can be upgraded in future for fgfa.

Where lca lack in fitment of aesa is the size of nose.

 

[he-man]

Rafale's nose cone diameter is even smaller than a MiG-23's! And MAYBE even a Mirage-3!

I hope better sense prevails and MoD of the new govt scraps this MMRCA nonsense and better utilize the money for more urgent needs, like feeding its people properly by constructing grain silos instead of letting thousands of tonnes of food to rot in the open.

man u have talked on a good point here

ideally we should have opted for a su-35 with pakfa electronics...................at least we would have got bang for our buck

just imagine if mirage 2000 upgrade cost us 40 million per plane what would rafale mlu cost us??

at least 60-70 million,,,,,,we are done for if we sign this deal 
but the point is will the so called senior members listen ??

i sometimes think that those going for rafale are actually agents

 

[flamer84]

@he-man Watching your posts for a while now,you're one determined Rafale hater.

 

[he-man]

@he-man Watching your posts for a while now,you're one determined Rafale hater.

if u see my threads i bash things technically

baed on all the reports rafale will be obsolete pretty soon as china is going for 2 5 th generation planes simultaneously

whom are we kidding??
can rafale stand upto su-35 if it gets the massive aesa upgrade which it will soon ,,considering its huge nose the aesa will be double that of rafale

 

[GURU DUTT]

man u have talked on a good point here

ideally we should have opted for a su-35 with pakfa electronics...................at least we would have got bang for our buck

just imagine if mirage 2000 upgrade cost us 40 million per plane what would rafale mlu cost us??

at least 60-70 million,,,,,,we are done for if we sign this deal 
but the point is will the so called senior members listen ??

i sometimes think that those going for rafale are actually agents

ya your right we should speed up LCA program and go full hog in serial production and rty to get latest 50-60 F18s or SU35s with latest ASEA, EW suite and wepons

 

[Liquidmetal]

Hang on, I think the IAF, one of the best AFs, carried out one of the best competitions for the selection of this aircraft for the MMRCA contract, if they selected the Rafale then it must mean the aircraft is up there as one of the best. By all accounts, after mali and libya, the rafale has received a lot of praise, Also AK Anthony is averse to kickbacks so this tender was probably one of the cleanest too.

Looking at the aircraft and the specs, this is one hell of a package, extremely capable and is head and shoulders above anything PK or China has.

 

[Echo_419]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Even if the Rafael has problems just select the damn thing
& Members here no selecting the new plane & Signing the Contract
how much time it will take we want to Replace Mig-21 & Mig-27 fast

& those Arguing that LCA should be purchased with Israeli stuff on it
The name of the plane is LIGHT COMBAT AIRCRAFT for god sake LIGHT
& MMRCA Fighter is a Medium Category Fighter
& SU-35 is a Heavy Category Fighter NOT MEDIUM as specified in the Contract Multi Medium Role Combat aircraft

F-16 & F-18 are US fighters so no
MIG-35 is a Russian fighter & we don't want a Russian Fighter
Gripen is a Single Engine with a US Engine so a BIG no
Bache Rafael or Euro Fighter
I think Euro Fighter was not selected bcauz it Lacked Ground attack Capability or something other
So Rafael was natural choice \

& We are Midst of the Negotiations
Phele Cancel Karo
Phir Naya fighter Chose karo
Phir 3-4 saal Deal Finalize karne mein Laga do

Aur IAF walo ka toh kam hee yahi hai
Toh Unhe Armchair Analist se jyada pata hoga

 

[Ping]

man u have talked on a good point here

ideally we should have opted for a su-35 with pakfa electronics...................at least we would have got bang for our buck

just imagine if mirage 2000 upgrade cost us 40 million per plane what would rafale mlu cost us??

at least 60-70 million,,,,,,we are done for if we sign this deal 
but the point is will the so called senior members listen ??

i sometimes think that those going for rafale are actually agents

I dont even want to think about the cost of the MLU. it scares me. And another scary part is the missile deal which will follow immediately if this MMRCA nonsense goes through. Mica costed 2.7 million dollars a PIECE! Imagine what a METEOR will cost! Those French bastards will suck us dry!!! We might as well pay-off the PAF to destroy their planes with the money we will give the french from the start of the Rafale deal till the last Rafale gets retired.

 

[he-man]

Is it my fault that they are taking so long??

Rafale was good had we selected it in mid 2000 not anymore and for the cost vs performance ratio it is a horrible plane............underpowered with puny engines and non stealthy even though it costs 100 million plus 

I dont even want to think about the cost of the MLU. it scares me. And another scary part is the missile deal which will follow immediately if this MMRCA nonsense goes through. Mica costed 2.7 million dollars a PIECE! Imagine what a METEOR will cost! Those French bastards will suck us dry!!! We might as well pay-off the PAF to destroy their planes with the money we will give the french from the start of the Rafale deal till the last Rafale gets retired.

ppl who want this deal conveniently forget this very important point of mlu??

that will cost us atleast 60-70 million per plane!!!

what the ****?? 

Hang on, I think the IAF, one of the best AFs, carried out one of the best competitions for the selection of this aircraft for the MMRCA contract, if they selected the Rafale then it must mean the aircraft is up there as one of the best. By all accounts, after mali and libya, the rafale has received a lot of praise, Also AK Anthony is averse to kickbacks so this tender was probably one of the cleanest too.

Looking at the aircraft and the specs, this is one hell of a package, extremely capable and is head and shoulders above anything PK or China has.

yes,,,,for now....................but the life of this plane willbe at least 30 years.

looking beyond 2020 this will be obsolete totally..........it has no hope due to small dimensions of radar and underpowered engine

 

[Srinivas]

Number of T/R modules may not be proportional to the effectiveness of the radar.

Yes this thing has been discussed to death whether its feasable considering the costs etc etc.

But i want to debate it purely on technical grounds,,,,,starting with the radar
Rafale has claimed that aesa radar has 1000 t/r modules but all thepictures clearly suggest about 840 or so modules.Considering this value is way smaller than most modern aesa radars won't it have any effect on performance??range??jamming??

Iam not saying this is useless but its relatively smaller than the competition and it should have been taken into account considering the massive amount we are paying.

Please look at the links provided and answer sensibly purely on technical terms

no jingoism or fanboyism please