Muslim women cannot object to husbands’ marriages: CII chief

[Dubious]

You can mention the differences between Men and Women.
A family is female dominated and man is a hunter gatherer or bread earner.
Women are the main driving force behind the family and the Women should be given equal status.
There is some lagging in the thinking of women when it comes to certain areas but that do not mean they should be given secondary status.

How is she getting secondary status?

The problem with polygamy in Islam is that wife do not have minimum rights over her husband.

Please elaborate

If the man is ideal guy then he can take care of four wives, But that is not the case here , Wife along with children will go through the trauma and insecurity with this kind of system.
Women cannot co exist with each other, Having four wives will make it worse.

I already answered this:

And if you fear that you will not deal justly with the orphan girls, then marry those that please you of [other] women, two or three or four. But if you fear that you will not be just, then [marry only] one or those your right hand possesses. That is more suitable that you may not incline [to injustice]. Quran 4:3

The marry only one is an order to the condition if you cant be just....

What the SC has said has still not been implemented in the lower courts.

That is the flaw of your system which you refuse to change! Or Maybe you didnt read the article properly!

As far as the implementation of the CII’s controversial recommendation is concerned, the Supreme Court had already decided last year in favour of DNA tests in rape cases. “The apex court has declared DNA evidence as admissible in rape cases. Now there is no ambiguity about it,” observed Barrister Salman Akram Raja, who was part of the case.

“Defying apex court judgments amount to contempt of court. In case the CII makes recommendations against the court judgement, it will be open for challenge,” Raja added.

DNA evidence in rape cases: For religious leaders, it's still a question mark - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

 

[Armstrong]

I dont know what @The SC said but I quoted @Armstrong not @The SC ....

Oi don't involve me in this I merely mentioned what I did mention solely for your information otherwise your opponent is as objective and fair an assessor of things as Hitler would be on being asked to write a research paper extolling the virtues of and contributions to Germany by the Jewish People !

 

[the just]

I am not convinced... tell me why polygamy is wrong. What kind of justice are you looking for. I am talking about option 2 of course as option 3 and 4 can be ruled out judging from your response.


the issue with true meaning is, nobody will be wiser as to what is right. Should gay muslims be allowed to marry each others. Today you say no, after 100 years I am sure you will find a verse or two that will support the claim that islam accepted gays as a natural phenomena and its all perfectly scientific just that people interpreted it wrong in 21st century.
Such a scheme will perptually follow the societal norms and new social and scientific law(after a hudred year or so may be), will never be the guiding force for humanity, which you will expect from a book written by god.

I am sorry,you are preaching to the wrong coire. It could ,100 or 1000 years my answer will remain same.Islam will never accept gays ,no matter what.nor it justifies the war mongers doing so called jihads in its name.why blame the religion because some illiterate morons thinks they are doing it for Allah all mighty.I have read your scriptures also.I do not condemn you because some hippi babajis,aghoris,sevadasis,satis,and people who sacrifice their children in the name of your god and goddess.

 

[Dubious]

Oi don't involve me in this I merely mentioned what I did mention solely for your information otherwise your opponent is as objective and fair an assessor of things as Hitler would be on being asked to write a research paper extolling the virtues of and contributions to Germany by the Jewish People !

hahahahah...I needed the article thanks bro

 

[Srinivas]

There may be some some success with this system, I am only pointing the flaws in this system when view from one wife and one husband system.

How is she getting secondary status?
Please elaborate

1) Man is given permissions to marry another 3 with out the consent of his first wife.

2) Man can give divorce to his wife with out even asking for the opinion of his wife.

These laws will make wife a secondary to Husband.

I already answered this:

And if you fear that you will not deal justly with the orphan girls, then marry those that please you of [other] women, two or three or four. But if you fear that you will not be just, then [marry only] one or those your right hand possesses. That is more suitable that you may not incline [to injustice]. Quran 4:3

The marry only one is an order to the condition if you cant be just....

In the medieval times female to male ratio is more, reason why one finds polygamy in Hindusim , Islam or any other religion.

Reasons are wars, less life expectancy of men, etc..etc..

But this is not the case now.

Secondly the law is ideal but in practice it is not.

People marry as many women they find and then he becomes her master and dictates what to do like a slave. In that case this system fails.

There are many examples in modern Islamic societies.

 

[livingdead]

I am sorry,you are preaching to the wrong coire. It could ,100 or 1000 years my answer will remain same.Islam will never accept gays ,no matter what.nor it justifies the war mongers doing so called jihads in its name.why blame the religion because some illiterate morons thinks they are doing it for Allah all mighty.I have read your scriptures also.I do not condemn you because some hippi babajis,aghoris,sevadasis,satis,and people who sacrifice their children in the name of your god and goddess.

I was not saying gay marriage is islamic, I was making a wider point that finding what is true islam is very very difficult enterprise...everybody thinks he/she is the right one... and has a quotation to prove.
Thanks for not condemning me... lolz.. but thats not the point of discussion here.

 

[Armstrong]

I was not saying gay marriage is islamic, I was making a wider point that finding what is true islam is very very difficult enterprise...everybody thinks he/she is the right one... and has a quotation to prove.
Thanks for not condemning me... lolz.. but thats not the point of discussion here.

Talking about Polygyny, Gays and Marriage - You're not a closet Queer are you ?

 

[Abingdonboy]

This is why India needs a common civil code.

These men make a mockery of themselves.

No. We should learn the lesson and completely ban all multiple marriages - no exceptions.

It happens here in the UK where multiple marriages is illegal , you can't legislate this issue.

 

[livingdead]

Talking about Polygyny, Gays and Marriage - You're not a closet Queer are you ?

no unless I am but I dont know I am... ....

 

[Dubious]

1) Man is given permissions to marry another 3 with out the consent of his first wife.

It doesnt state that....Is hiding it from the first wife is viewed as just to the wives?
Only condition was be Just in the dealings of each and each other...

2) Man can give divorce to his wife with out even asking for the opinion of his wife.

I havent even talked about the divorce laws...However, even in civil court the man can send divorce papers to the wife without asking her....so I am not sure what you are hitting at!

As for divorce in Islam it is a big chapter which is in my opinion followed like the jahil divorce laws which existed before Islam...

In Islam you have 3 talaq....each to be given at 3 incidents...many schools believe that talaq given in anger isnt counted
many even believe that 3 talaq uttered in 1 go isnt counted as 3 but as 1....

These laws will make wife a secondary to Husband.

No a woman can also seek divorce without the consent of the husband...hence it is equal...all she needs to do is go to the Shariah court or civil court and say I cant live with this man any more...dont wanna see his face...rest is up to the judge or Qari who cant deny her wishes...Yes it is that simple...It is called Khulla people dont seek it for fear of what people will call their daughters nothing to do with Islam but mentality!

In the medieval times female to male ratio is more, reason why one finds polygamy in Hindusim , Islam or any other religion.
Reasons are wars, less life expectancy of men, etc..etc..
But this is not the case now.

Man's horniness is still of the same level....

He rather have mistress or visit a prostitute over giving a legal ranking to the woman he frequently visits?

Secondly the law is ideal but in practice it is not.

This I can agree with

People marry as many women they find and then he becomes her master and dictates what to like a slave. In that case this system fails.

Arent they doing that now? How many rich have married and divorced like using tissue paper?

As for master ...there is no such relationship in Islam....marriage does not make one a slave...no where in the Quran does it say so! Not sure where you picked that one up from!

@Horus - Pls consider making @syedali73 a Moderator. Thanks.

I double that

 

[Armstrong]

no unless I am but I dont know I am... ....

Oi do you know anything about Dublin ? Hows the atmosphere ? Hows the UCD Smurift ? How are South Asians treated there ?

 

[Dubious]

Love the hypocrisy. They laugh at Muslim men for getting a second wife and call him and Islam all kinds of names. Then go on to their girlfriends or boyfriends house for a quickie!!!!!! before going home to the wife and kids.

Yes the hypocrisy is soo crisp and inbedded it is morally correct to visit gf over getting the same gf a legal status

 

[livingdead]

Oi do you know anything about Dublin ? Hows the atmosphere ? Hows the UCD Smurift ? How are South Asians treated there ?

I went only once... nice city and nice people... dont know about uni.
I did not stay there long so dont have a real feel of how welcoming they are to outsiders... I think irish are not racists.

 

[Srinivas]

It doesnt state that....Is hiding it from the first wife is viewed as just to the wives?
Only condition was be Just in the dealings of each and each other...

Men are Horny but he is capable of dealing with one or two women at a single point of time. Justice cannot be done for four.

I havent even talked about the divorce laws...However, even in civil court the man can send divorce papers to the wife without asking her....so I am not sure what you are hitting at!

As for divorce in Islam it is a big chapter which is in my opinion followed like the jahil divorce laws which existed before Islam...

In Islam you have 3 talaq....each to be given at 3 incidents...many schools believe that talaq given in anger isnt counted
many even believe that 3 talaq uttered in 1 go isnt counted as 3 but as 1....

You are comparing pre Islamic divorce laws with Islamic laws which are formulated in 7th century, since then lot of changes took place. Yes Divorce can be sent by court with out the consent of wife but there will be arguments and Judge will decide based on that. There are divorce cases which failed in the courts.

Secondly Talaq system is inhuman.

No a woman can also seek divorce without the consent of the husband...hence it is equal...all she needs to do is go to the Shariah court or civil court and say I cant live with this man any more...dont wanna see his face...rest is up to the judge or Qari who cant deny her wishes...Yes it is that simple...It is called Khulla people dont seek it for fear of what people will call their daughters nothing to do with Islam but mentality!

How many will do that??

Man's horniness is still of the same level....

He rather have mistress or visit a prostitute over giving a legal ranking to the woman he frequently visits?

A better system, if a man is cruel that mistress or prostitute can give left and right. Considering society is evolved one and gives dignity to prostitutes as it is one of the oldest professions.

Arent they doing that now? How many rich have married and divorced like using tissue paper?

A man cannot marry another women with out agreement from his first wife.

As for master ...there is no such relationship in Islam....marriage does not make one a slave...no where in the Quran does it say so! Not sure where you picked that one up from!

You know better what Qu'ran describes about women and wives.

 

[Dubious]

Men are Horny but he is capable of dealing with one or two women at a single point of time. Justice cannot be done for four.

Hence the order when justice cant be done : MARRY ONLY ONE!

The first part of the verse where you are allowed to marry is what is allowed....but when the condition comes...it comes with an order (if you know the Arabic language you will know the difference between verses which are an order and others which are telling you something)

You are comparing pre Islamic divorce laws with Islamic laws which are formulated in 7th century, since then lot of changes took place. Yes Divorce can be sent by court with out the consent of wife but there will be arguments and Judge will decide based on that. There are divorce cases which failed in the courts.
Secondly Talaq system is inhuman.

What are pre-islamic divorce laws?

What is talaq system as per your understanding?

How many will do that??

Those who know their rights will...but those who live off what so and so will say wont...but that is not the fault of the system rather fault and fear of people of what others will say!

A better system, if a man is cruel that mistress or prostitute can give left and right. Considering society is evolved one and gives dignity to prostitutes as it is one of the oldest professions.

Has "MODERN" civil law done anything remotely similar?

Please talk about reality not some fantasy

A man cannot marry another women with out agreement from his first wife.

That is true for many schools of thoughts...and that should be the case as the Quran only says JUSTICE for them and BETWEEN THEM

You know better what Qu'ran describes about women and wives.

Yes that is why I questioned you coz you made no sense at all as to what Quran describes....