Muslim gymnast criticised for 'revealing' costume as she wins double-gold!

[syedali73]

This is our biggest misunderstanding.

There is compulsion in being a Muslim to follow principles of Islam. There is no compulsion into converting into Islam. Once you are Muslim, you follow rules of Islam, you like it or not.

Muslim, specially those who want to seen as progressive want a lassiez faire in religion. There is no such thing. Take an example. If you work for an organization, and that organization has rule to be in office until 5pm but you walk away at 3pm everyday saying that its your freedom and there is no compulsion, you will most likely be fired.

Similarly, in Islam, you have to follow rules. Rules that make you an adherent or follower of a certain code of conduct and behavior.



In my experience, very strong sexual desire but then women can conceal and keep under control much better than men.

Perhaps you are right. The following ayah (Al-Baqrah 208) supports your notion.

In above mentioned ayah, Allah is clearly addressing to those who have embraced Islam (Ya ayyu hallazeen a aamano) and says that those of you who have embraced Islam, enter into it completely and do not follow the footsteps of Shaitan. This ayah clearly suggests that Muslims must follow all the orders of Islam.

 

[Viper0011.]

Muslim gymnast criticised for 'revealing' costume as she wins double-gold
Published: June 19, 2015

For wearing a leotard at the Southeast Asia games, Farah Ann Abdul Hadi has come under fire where she won a total of six medals

21, a Muslim gymnast has been criticised by religious leaders for wearing a leotard which is ‘revealing’ at the Southeast Asian Games where she won a double gold.

These mullahs need to fukoff. Let people live the life they want to. I am sure God can directly talk to them vs. having these fukking mullah's play in betweens or middle-men. Humans should have a direct contact with God asking for guidance and its a personal thing. Outside of it, no mullah should tell anyone what to do. If they are even qualified religious scholars, their job is to teach religion the right way and get the hell out of people's personal lives. Its these mullahs who produced scums like Al-Qaeda, Taliban, ISIS and the likes. No place for them in the world as peace and stability is what muslim countries need the most.

There is. Disagreement simply means I wouldn't want my daughter to wear such clothes..

And that's fine if she accepts it, its your personal house hold matter. No mullah needs to be involved with it. Similarly, this young lady won Gold medals, obviously, her parents and all were ok with it (if they needed to ok it). Who the hell are any of these mullahs to play the middle-men between her and God? She can do whatever she wants to and if she's under aged, she can still do what she wants to, as long as her guardian or parents are ok with it.

 

[TankMan]

Perhaps you are right. The following ayah (Al-Baqrah 208) supports your notion.

View attachment 231354

In above mentioned ayah, Allah is clearly addressing to those who have embraced Islam (Ya ayyu hallazeen a aamano) and says that those of you who have embraced Islam, enter into it completely and do not follow the footsteps of Shaitan. This ayah clearly suggest that Muslims must follow all the orders of Islam.

The way I see it,
There is no compulsion per se, which means you can't force someone to follow all orders of Islam, but that is what is expected of them by God and it is their responsibility to follow all orders. If they don't want to, they are answerable to God.

their job is to teach religion the right way and get the hell out of people's personal lives.

Part of that religion guides peoples' personal lives. This particular scholar did not say anything wrong, did not threaten anyone, he didn't even condemn or use strong language. All he said was that according to the religion of Islam, women shouldn't wear so revealing clothes. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this, and there is no way any of what he said could produce Al-Qaeda or ISIS, and there is no way his statements could threaten the peace and stability of Malaysia.

Wow..... a ****load of men discussing what a woman can wear and not because of some weird interpretation from an old book.


Why dont you just let her decide for HERSELF?!

This kind of interference into personal matters destroys any chance of success in so many areas .....

She has already decided for herself. Nobody is stopping her. What we're discussing here is our opinion based on religion, as to whether or not wearing such clothes is correct from a religious perspective, and it isn't. If she doesn't want to follow the religion, fine, no compulsion. But expressing our opinion is perfectly okay. If you have a problem with our opinion, nobody is forcing you to read it.

And that's fine if she accepts it, its your personal house hold matter. No mullah needs to be involved with it. Similarly, this young lady won Gold medals, obviously, her parents and all were ok with it (if they needed to ok it). Who the hell are any of these mullahs to play the middle-men between her and God? She can do whatever she wants to and if she's under aged, she can still do what she wants to, as long as her guardian or parents are ok with it.

It is scholars' job to tell people the religious perspective on these issues. That is their job. As long as he used perfectly civilized language and didn't say anything threatening, what's the problem? His statement was probably directed towards his followers so that they themselves know that wearing such clothing would go against their religion.

 

[Koovie]

the peace and stability of Malaysia.


She has already decided for herself. Nobody is stopping her. What we're discussing here is our opinion based on religion, as to whether or not wearing such clothes is correct from a religious perspective, and it isn't. If she doesn't want to follow the religion, fine, no compulsion. But expressing our opinion is perfectly okay. If you have a problem with our opinion, nobody is forcing you to read it.

Yeah, and thats why I made the remark at the end of my post... this kind of ridiculous interference into personal matters of others is like poison to south Asian societies in general..

 

[Viper0011.]

Part of that religion guides peoples' personal lives. This particular scholar did not say anything wrong, did not threaten anyone, he didn't even condemn or use strong language.

All he said was that according to the religion of Islam, women shouldn't wear so revealing clothes. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this, and there is no way any of what he said could produce Al-Qaeda or ISIS, and there is no way his statements could threaten the peace and stability of Malaysia.

You are contradicting yourself. See the bold above:

1) You said in the first bold statement, part of the religion guides people's personal lives. Well, that's the idea, every religion does that and gives people a personal and family life conduct protocols if you will. What NO religion allows or does, including Islam, is that adding Mullah's who'll issue statements on your clothes or death fatwa's if this was another country like Pakistan or Iran. Malaysia is a much more moderate country. So it is the intolerance that I am referring to.

Show me one place in Islam / Koran or even Bible, where it says Lord allowed Pasters, Clerics or other religious "leaders" to issue ANY condemnation of personal acts, issued threats of Fatwas if this happened elsewhere......??

2) To the above point, if God doesn't call out a pastor or muslim cleric to play the middle-man, a pastor or a cleric doesn't need to open their mouth up. Its a personal thing. If someone is doing something, they can have their time with God. A middle-man doesn't need to remind what God wants. As that's not what he's described in his scriptures.

There should be openness and acceptance of people. This intolerance crap needs to go away.

 

[syedali73]

The way I see it,
There is no compulsion per se, which means you can't force someone to follow all orders of Islam, but that is what is expected of them by God and it is their responsibility to follow all orders. If they don't want to, they are answerable to God.

It is not state imposed but society and culture imposed, sort of, except for certain matters such as Zakat; Caliph Abu Bakar (RA) battled against those who refused to pay zakat. A person who once says Shadah is a Muslim and if he/she does not follow Islam in its true spirit is still as Muslim but a faasiq and faajir. Allah has said that he will forgo all sins except 'shirk'.

Part of that religion guides peoples' personal lives. This particular scholar did not say anything wrong, did not threaten anyone, he didn't even condemn or use strong language. All he said was that according to the religion of Islam, women shouldn't wear so revealing clothes. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this, and there is no way any of what he said could produce Al-Qaeda or ISIS, and there is no way his statements could threaten the peace and stability of Malaysia.

True, there have been no threats, nobody declared her as non-Muslim etc., unlike how it happens in Pakistan. However, society must resist such trends but of-course non-violently and through peaceful means, and more importantly through example. I know a lot of us have begun to hate Islam because of the hypocrisy of Mullah and double or multiple standards of those who present themselves as the representatives of Islam.

 

[TankMan]

Yeah, and thats why I made the remark at the end of my post... this kind of ridiculous interference into personal matters of others is like poison to south Asian societies in general..

It isn't just a personal matter when she performs in public representing her country.

 

[ayesha.a]

well she has a point, even this dude is not properly observing purdah

There are plenty of Hadiths that make that attire a sin. Some saying that men should cover their knees, some saying that everything between the navel and knees should be covered at all times, and so on. But morality gets outraged selectively only when certain men see women accomplishing something.

 

[syedali73]

It isn't just a personal matter when she performs in public representing her country.

I asked around, interestingly enough, despite being conservative compared to Pakistanis, most Malay Muslims of Malaysia give a hoot about how she dressed. Interesting isn't it?

 

[TankMan]

You are contradicting yourself.

No, I am not. There is no contradiction in ''Part of that religion guides peoples' personal lives.''
and
''All he said was that according to the religion of Islam, women shouldn't wear so revealing clothes. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this''

You need to look up the meaning of ''contradict''.

1) You said in the first bold statement, part of the religion guides people's personal lives. Well, that's the idea, every religion does that and gives people a personal and family life conduct protocols if you will. What NO religion allows or does, including Islam, is that adding Mullah's who'll issue statements on your clothes or death fatwa's if this was another country like Pakistan or Iran. Malaysia is a much more moderate country. So it is the intolerance that I am referring to.

Show me one place in Islam / Koran or even Bible, where it says Lord allowed Pasters, Clerics or other religious "leaders" to issue ANY condemnation of personal acts, issued threats of Fatwas if this happened elsewhere......??

There is no ''death fatwa'' here. There is nothing wrong with a scholar issuing a statement saying that ''women should not wear such clothes'' unless he is threatening anyone. He isn't. Neither is he inciting anyone. And neither is he assuming the role of God. He is simply doing his job. If he were giving death fatwas, my response to his comments would be different. But he isn't.

To the above point, if God doesn't call out a pastor or muslim cleric to play the middle-man, a pastor or a cleric doesn't not need to open their mouth up. Its a personal thing. If someone is doing something, they can have their time with God. A middle-man doesn't need to remind what God wants. As that's not what he's described in his scriptures.

There should be openness and acceptance of people. This intolerance crap needs to go away.

You are wrong.

It is not a personal thing when they perform publicly to represent their country. A scholar has the right to speak his opinion. We are under no obligation to ''accept'' all this ''openness''. If we disagree with something, we can voice our opinion against it being a part of society or culture.

 

[Viper0011.]

It is scholars' job to tell people the religious perspective on these issues. That is their job.

Scholars are preaching a religion right? And religion, whether Islam or Christianity, has clear framework on living a normal life for people. Show me ONE place in the Bible or Koran where God said, I am authorizing middle-men like clerics to tell you what to wear and eat in your personal life, and these clerics can be involved in making statements to get famous on social media.

Nowhere will you find middle-men in any Abrahamic religion. The role of a pastor and a cleric is, when one GOES to them for guidance as one may not know the Bible or Koran in details, the pastor or the cleric can guide them what the book says about a topic and how the framework of living life is set. They don't have a right to pass judgment and issue fatwas on people's clothes, or yoga or music, that's effing stupid. Mullahs like these have already caused terrorism and wars across the globe, they need to get inside their room and do the right thing, teach the RIGHT religion with forgiveness in mind!!

God, whether you read Bible or Koran, is nothing but Mercy, he created all of us KNOWING we are sinful idiots and we would commit sins no matter what. And he always accepts a real apology and forgives everyone, no matter how many times we do a sin and then honestly go back to him.

So when the God himself is THAT forgiving, who the hell are these clerics to basterdize humans on media and all because of a simple thing like gymnastic clothes? WTF? There is not even an argument here, middle-men mullahs have no place in a modern society, beyond consultations by someone when they need to understand what a scripture says about an issue. Outside of it, they shouldn't bit*ch about who does what. Its not their job, role or responsibility, period.

There is no ''death fatwa'' here. .

There would be MULTIPLE of those if this was Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran or places as such!!!! That was the point, mullah's don't need to bitc*ch about personal stuff. Let it be between God and the human. There is no middle-man involved described in the scripture!!! Let the man made stuff remain man made.

 

[TankMan]

I asked around, interestingly enough, despite being conservative compared to Pakistanis, most Malay Muslims of Malaysia give a hoot about how she dressed. Interesting isn't it?

They've probably come to accept it, like Pakistanis have accepted the removal of the hijab/dupatta on TV etc.

There are plenty of Hadiths that make that attire a sin. Some saying that men should cover their knees, some saying that everything between the navel and knees should be covered at all times, and so on. But morality gets outraged selectively only when certain men see women accomplishing something.

I'm sure the cleric would've said the same if she didn't win anything at all but represented her country in the event. As for men's attire, there is no ambiguity there: everything between the navel and knees should be covered.

 

[PoKeMon]

So, a living style formulated in 632 AD is still a guideline for people of 21st century??

That's quite an evolution!!!

 

[TankMan]

Scholars are preaching a religion right? And religion, whether Islam or Christianity, has clear framework on living a normal life for people. Show me ONE place in the Bible or Koran where God said, I am authorizing middle-men like clerics to tell you what to wear and eat in your personal life, and these clerics can be involved in making statements to get famous on social media.

Nowhere will you find middle-men in any Abrahamic religion. The role of a pastor and a cleric is, when one GOES to them for guidance as one may not know the Bible or Koran in details, the pastor or the cleric can guide them what the book says about a topic and how the framework of living life is set. They don't have a right to pass judgment and issue fatwas on people's clothes, or yoga or music, that's effing stupid. Mullahs like these have already caused terrorism and wars across the globe, they need to get inside their room and do the right thing, teach the RIGHT religion with forgiveness in mind!!

God, whether you read Bible or Koran, is nothing but Mercy, he created all of us KNOWING we are sinful idiots and we would commit sins no matter what. And he always accepts a real apology and forgives everyone, no matter how many times we do a sin and then honestly go back to him.

So when the God himself is THAT forgiving, who the hell are these clerics to basterdize humans on media and all because of a simple thing like gymnastic clothes? WTF? There is not even an argument here, middle-men mullahs have no place in a modern society, beyond consultations by someone when they need to understand what a scripture says about an issue. Outside of it, they shouldn't bit*ch about who does what. Its not their job, role or responsibility, period.

Even if you write a rant as long as that to get your point across, it's still wrong. Your point here is that a specific group of people, religious scholars, shouldn't be allowed to speak their opinion. There is a word for that. It's called fascism.

As long as they do not make a threat, expressing their opinion based on the religious principles is perfectly fine. They have a right to ''pass judgement'' as their opinion. That is what a fatwa is: an opinion. They don't have the right to impose it on anyone, but since there is no imposition on part of this particular scholar, what is the problem?

Does your prized freedom of speech only apply when maligning, insulting, and reviling religion?

 

[salarsikander]

Hi ,

Wonder how is it related to Indians ? Now we will have Hindus teaching us Islam