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Musharraf wanted war over Kashmir, says Benazir

I think the best way forward is for the education system to improve.....that way the people won't get taken in by the same crooks time and time again. When the politicians run he country like dictators anyway what's the difference?
 
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I am sure beNAZir and Nawaz are corrupt, but still it doesnt give the army right to topple them and assume power
Yes, you are right but still only these two are to be blamed because they weekend the institutions and ammended the state laws to convert there rule into Kingdom.
When Nwaz Sharif was toppled by law he had same status as King and the people sarrounding by him were known as Kings party.

He crushed any opposition in politics, he exiled Benazir and put her husband behind bars.
 
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I am sure beNAZir and Nawaz are corrupt, but still it doesnt give the army right to topple them and assume power


Niether is it to keep power and corrupting the system besides the people wanted the army so the coup was justified.

I think the best way forward is for the education system to improve.....that way the people won't get taken in by the same crooks time and time again. When the politicians run he country like dictators anyway what's the difference?

That I agree totally and we need to boost our economy
 
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People deserve the leaders they get. If your justifying the army coup, unlike most Pakistani's, then you deserver not to ever have any meaningful democracy.
 
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Niether is it to keep power and corrupting the system besides the people wanted the army so the coup was justified.

Your country has 169 million people in it, Please show me a source which states that the majority of legal electoral populace which said we want a dictatorship?"
You have no idea how many people are scared and silent cuz of the military?
You have no idea how many people want the military?
How many people dont bother who it is in power?

I am talking numbers , you want to prove me wrong; give me numbers

Dont give me a random thought which you think is right and then without cause or reason spread or generalize it outrightly as the will of the people. With Democracy comes responsiblities and that is not only for the leaders, but also for the electoral people.
 
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Military rule is far more demanding on the public than stupid rulers like Nawaz etc.
How many coffins opened up after your first 3 military rulers, you will see musharaf's real side when he gets out of power. As long as they are in power everything looks dandy and good.
They will make sure nothing happens to their image and public perception of everything is fine and their god's boon to the country. Musharraf for all you know might have stole far more money than Benazir and Nawaz combined.
 
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Musharraf for all you know might have stole far more money than Benazir and Nawaz combined.
That's the name of the game. In normal world we only blame if facts are established.

FYI,
Benazir is busy attending international corruption charges and by law she is disqualified to hold the assembly seat ever again in his life.
Without going to details, Same apply to Nawz Sharif.
 
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Your country has 169 million people in it, Please show me a source which states that the majority of legal electoral populace which said we want a dictatorship?"
You have no idea how many people are scared and silent cuz of the military?
You have no idea how many people want the military?
How many people dont bother who it is in power?

I am talking numbers , you want to prove me wrong; give me numbers

Dont give me a random thought which you think is right and then with cause or reason spread or generalize it outrightly as the will of the people. With Democracy comes responsiblities and that is not only for the leaders, but also for the electoral people.



:yahoo: this must one of the few times i totally agree with everything you have said
 
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I had some time last week, so after trying to play cricket on a rainy day I sat down and read Musharaffs 'In the Line of Fire'.

After finishing it I felt I'd never want a man like this running my country.

More than dishonesty it was the attitude that annoyed me. I did this. I did this nice thing. This great thing was done by me. What I did was right. Yeh, I did this in an excellent manner. I. I. I. I cant count the number of 'I's in the book.

I'd expect a little more from the head of a State. Musharaff needs to measure up to become a true national leader. He is still the General running the country like how he'd run an army. On an ad-hoc basis at that.
 
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Sad that Imran Khan doesn't work with Musharraf. The only honest politicians in Pakistan. But working in opposite directions. Bhutto is a liar. Her father orchestrated the 1971 Chaos, he was so desperate for power.
 
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Sad that Imran Khan doesn't work with Musharraf. The only honest politicians in Pakistan. But working in opposite directions. Bhutto is a liar. Her father orchestrated the 1971 Chaos, he was so desperate for power.


BB will go any length to malign Musharraf and the PA!. this propoganda is apparantly falling on deaf ears in the US Admin and the PA (corps cmdrs) have taken a serious note of her actions.

pls read Kamran Khan article in todays NEWS english edition newspaper. the PA is solidly behind Musharraf as he retires from the PA and Gen Kiyani takes over as the new CoAS.
a secret telephone call between Bush and Musharraf has taken place whereby the latter has completely convinced Bush of his actions and provided a complete time-table of events leading up to the free and fair elections in Jan-08.
Musharraf may be in his most strongest position since Nov-3rd.!!
 
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Sad that Imran Khan doesn't work with Musharraf. The only honest politicians in Pakistan. But working in opposite directions. Bhutto is a liar. Her father orchestrated the 1971 Chaos, he was so desperate for power.

Its Imran Khan's party, whose vote created the Musharraf Gov, the Dictator Gov was created from a single party vote.

You need to read history before you vomit something out, the 1971 disaster happened because of the dictatorship.
 
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This lady has guts, She published the book even after she made deal with Musharaf and slated to comeback for election.
I am wondering what is stopping Musharaf now? He can capture Srinagar and win elections easily.

Only people who have a very limited knowledge of Pakistani politics or even less of the Pakistani Armed Forces would believe what she has written. She has attributed the exact same story to Gen Aslam Beg (which I would give more credence to as he was the CoAS during her time and could have had such discussions) and now she is attributing it to Musharraf. Its not the prerogative of a DGMO to tell a civilian PM that he can take over Srinagar. If anything, the DGMO advises the CoAS instead of directly interfacing with the PM of the country.

Also the story she quotes is verbatim what happened during the time of Zia when someone suggested pushing against the Indians across the LoC and Zia grilled them pretty hard to the point that the suggestion became a non-starter.

Right now, America's darling in Pakistan is willing to go to ANY length to get herself in the PM's chair but things are playing out a bit differently. With leaders like BB running around, who needs enemies?
 
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BB will go any length to malign Musharraf and the PA!. this propoganda is apparantly falling on deaf ears in the US Admin and the PA (corps cmdrs) have taken a serious note of her actions.

pls read Kamran Khan article in todays NEWS english edition newspaper. the PA is solidly behind Musharraf as he retires from the PA and Gen Kiyani takes over as the new CoAS.
a secret telephone call between Bush and Musharraf has taken place whereby the latter has completely convinced Bush of his actions and provided a complete time-table of events leading up to the free and fair elections in Jan-08.
Musharraf may be in his most strongest position since Nov-3rd.!!

Here is the article if its not been posted. Excellent analysis Fatman!

Belligerent Benazir inadvertently helped Musharraf

Three weeks after emergency, the general is back on his feet

By Kamran Khan

KARACHI: Just three weeks after pushing Pakistan into the second emergency rule of his eight-year reign, President Gen Pervez Musharraf appears to have survived the strongest challenge yet to his hold on power. The Pakistan Army is still standing solidly behind him, the United States is ‘’pretty comfortable’’ with the situation and his fractious political supporters are busy in getting their act together for the elections.

Based on this recovered confidence, anchored in American and Army support, President Musharraf is now getting ready to step down as Chief of Army Staff within the next few days, say his associates.

According to an important aide, President Musharraf’s articulation of views and candour were at their best when he spoke to President Bush in an unpublicised telephone conversation early last week. During this dialogue, he convinced Bush that the emergency was imposed for “only a few weeks” in the best interests of democracy. This landmark telephone conversation between President Bush and President Musharraf, kept secret from the media in both countries, was also used by Musharraf to provide a timetable for the complete restoration of democracy in Pakistan to the person who is perhaps his best international friend.

Musharraf followed up the promise made to Bush during this conversation when he gave the date for the general elections and ordered the release of thousands of political detainees. President Bush was clearly happy and he couldn’t resist expressing his satisfaction publicly on Wednesday by declaring one more time: “I think he (Musharraf) truly is somebody who believes in democracy.”

In an interview with this correspondent in February last year, President Bush had said that he shared Musharraf’s “vision for democracy.” Now 21 months later, Bush said last Wednesday, “I do believe that he’s going to end up getting Pakistan back on the road to democracy, I certainly hope so.”

Opposition politicians, particularly Benazir Bhutto, are discouraged. But what she is probably unaware of is that her belligerent political posturing since her return to Pakistan last month, reinforced the perception among the country’s military commanders that it was the worst time to lift support from Musharraf. More ominously, Bhutto’s combative statements dealt a severe blow to her desire of finally making peace with the Pakistani military establishment.

“What does Ms Bhutto expect from the Army or the people when she starts her day by demanding that the US cut off aid to the Pakistani military,” asked a general not authorised to speak on the record with the media . “I know Gen Musharraf and Gen Kiyani (Vice Chief of Army Staff) had a hard time selling the NRO (National Reconcliation Ordinance) to senior commanders,” the same general claimed. He said General Musharraf’s decision to grant amnesty to Benazir was considered a highly unpopular decision within the institution.

“Her statements on AQ Khan and the Army’s role in curbing militancy had already complicated the situation before she launched the aid cut-off campaign in the western media,” another Army general explained during a private conversation last week. “The notion that she is playing to the gallery in western capitals is gaining ground in the Army in particular and the country in general,” he said.

This became evident when the visiting United States Deputy Secretary of State John Negroponte was informed by the government during his visit to Islamabad last week that his desire to arrange a personal meeting with Ms Bhutto would carry negative consequences.

Negroponte got a detailed sense of this perception during his meetings with President Musharraf and two meetings with Vice Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Pervez Kiyani, an informed official said.

During several private conversations with senior military and intelligence officials over the last several days, a consensus view seemed emerging. In this view, international forces were using discontent against President Musharraf to undermine the institution of the Army in Pakistan.

This perception within the Army emanated from the campaign to reinstate the chief justice when the angry lawyers allegedly failed to distinguish between President Musharraf and the largely apolitical Pakistan Army. Their slogans, even in the presence of Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry, allegedly targeted the rank and file of the Army and the media ran the campaign unedited, several Army officials claimed.

An element of mystery was added in the military minds when Ms. Bhutto, backed by huge support from the western media, suddenly opted to increase pressure on General Musharraf by demanding the US to cut military aid to “nuclear-armed” Pakistan.

Hence the final decision was taken in informal and formal discussions between the corps commanders and Gen Musharraf just before and after the imposition of emergency to completely detach the Army from civil governance under the new Army chief General Ashfaq Pervez Kiyani and to maintain strategic support to President Musharraf’s vision for democracy which the GHQ is most happy to share with President George Bush.

This was the period when the military commanders also turned down President Musharraf’s offer to quit both as the Army chief and president if that would help restore the much desired civil- military balance of power in Pakistan. According to a reliable official’s account of the meetings and conversations that took place between President Musharraf and several corps commanders and principal staff officers in the last week of October and the first week of this month.

Barring an unprecedented development, the Army seems ready to vanish from the public eye, even to the extent that senior Army officers may be asked to restrict their contacts with civilians only to close relatives and old friends.
 
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