Musharraf Period Saw Rapid Economic and Human Development in Pakistan

[Chak Bamu]

Just waiting for this thread to die a much deserved death and be consigned to history, much like the villain it tries to prop.

 

[batmannow]

Musharraf, shamelessly, provided logistic support to our enemy, the US and sold his own people to it

our enemy?
since when you hve been told to describe our enemy? kid?

Just waiting for this thread to die a much deserved death and be consigned to history, much like the villain it tries to prop.

even though, they made you up, thinktanker?
only thing missing is think? right?

 

[Panther 57]

Musharraf, shamelessly, provided logistic support to our enemy, the US and sold his own people to it

AZ shamelessly allowed 1000 people to enter Pakistan without immigration and put lives of 180 million at risk through suicide and remote control bombing. Attack on schools, mosques and military bases.Phenomenal increase number of drone attacks

NS shameless surrendered to the demands of IMF and constantly taxing and juicing common man. He shamelessly offered one sided negotiation to criminals and disgraced sovereignty of the country in the hands of TTP.

Now it is on you to assess which shameless act was better for the country and its people.

 

[tarrar]

Gen. Musharraf time of rule was the best & he managed it right.

 

[Mav3rick]

I literally do not have words for anti-Musharraf people! And I am usually not at a loss for words, but this is how dumbstruck I am at some of the fellow Pakistanis. I mean, should we really be this politicized to put our country at the bottom of our priorities and to curse anyone and everyone who goes after the politicians even though it is in the best interest of the country??

Usually the arguments against Musharraf are:

1. Bugti's death - Seriously, I mean WTF cares about that terrorist??
2. Lal Masjid - Masjid, on a grabbed piece of land? Is that what Islam teaches us? And that too full of terrorists armed with automatic weapons who were hell bent on taking Islamabad hostage, who were spreading terrorism that directly effected the lives of common man as well as Pakistan's international repute and credit?
3. BB's death: And who benefited the most from it? Besides, should we care about the daughter of the man who is responsible for splitting the country into half? What has she or PPP given us except exceptional poverty, unparalleled standards of corruption and nepotism, unmatched skills of incompetence and indifference????? Is that what we really need?
4. Fighting American war: Like any of the political leaders could have said 'No' to any of the American demands, shouldn't we be realistic about such matters??? And at the end of the day what was more beneficial for Pakistan, siding with or against the Americans?
5. Terrorism: This menace spiralled out of control under the civilian Government, so thanks to the pro-democracy fellows out there. What was TTP when Musharraf was in power till 2007? They could have been crushed under Musharraf, had the Judges not taken up the missing persons case etc.
6. Ch, Iftikhar and Judges: They were and still are a direct reason for the massive influx in terrorism, it's not like the missing persons were innocent civilians whom the military went against for some personal vendetta!

Furthermore, I do not understand how people still try to stipulate that excellent financial growth under Musharraf was some sort of luck, timing and foreign aid. How the spin wizards go about it to confuse people......people who have forgotten that we were all getting massive subsidies on gas, electricity and many commodities of life under Musharraf, that life saving drugs, medicines and other basic necessities were not only tax free, they were heavily subsidised. That atta (flour) was Rs. 30/kg, petrol Rs. 52, diesel Rs. 45, electricity atleast 120% cheaper, US$ at Rs. 60, foreign debt @ Rs. 1800 Billion v/s Rs. 6000 Billion today, US$ 16 Billion in reserves, NO MORE IMF!!!

The list goes on and on....

 

[nana41]

How much power generation capacity was added during the 8yrs of Musharraf regime?

NONE.

 

[kurup]

NONE.

Not true . He added 2 GW in 8 years .

According to this link , Countries with highest installed power capacity | The Shift Project Data Portal

Pakistan's total installed power capacity is

1999 - 17 GW

2001 - 18 GW

2008 - 20 GW

 

[Yusuf Essop]

I can respond to your questions, however, my views may not be in line with what you want to hear and displease many.

___________________________________________________________________________


I would prefer a response in the public arena of the forum. My own view is that we speak of transparency, but many of us shrink away from it when it involves us. I would like to encourage you to reply on this open forum so that we can have an open discussion as Islam teaches. Shaitaan, the accursed, (and his henchmen) operates in the shadows.

The Muslim recognises the sovereignty of Allah and would rather displease the many and please Allah.

But this is the dichotomy facing Pakistan and so many other Muslim countries, and even us, as individual Muslims. The choice between our own so called 'freedoms' and submitting to the governance and will of Allah. It is quite ironic that 'freedom' in the western context means submitting to the will of the state. So it really becomes an academic choice - submit to Allah or reject HIM and submit to the state which rejects Allah; in word and deed. Separation of church and state, I think is how they like to put it, as though your heart could be separated from your brain.

So we have to make that choice my brothers/sisters. Allah guides those who turn to him. So follow your heart, only after asking HIM to guide you.

I've listed the Kalima's below as I was thought as a child. It seems to me that the modern republican state is in conflict with all of them.

If the choice comes down to pleasing Allah or the people, I choose the Creator. I choose to please HIM. I hope you make the same choice.



kalimat tauhid or aṭ-ṭaiyibah
Also known as the Word of Purity

لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

There is no deity worthy of worship but Allah, [and] Muhammad (pbuh) is the messenger of Allah.



kalimat ash-shahadah or shahada
Also known as the word of testimony

أَشْهَدُ أنْ لا إلَٰهَ إِلَّا اللهُ وَحْدَهُ لَا شَرِيْكَ لَهُ وَأشْهَدُ أنَّ مُحَمَّدًا عَبْدُهُ وَرَسُولُهُ

I bear witness that (there is) no deity worthy of worship except Allah; One is He, no partner hath He, and I bear witness that Muhammad (pbuh) is His Servant and Messenger.



kalimat at-tamjīd
Also known as the word of glorification

سُبْحَان اللهِ وَالْحَمْدُلِلّهِ وَلا إِلهَ إِلّااللّهُ وَاللّهُ أكْبَرُ وَلا حَوْلَ وَلاَ قُوَّةَ إِلَّا بِاللّهِ الْعَلِيِّ الْعَظِيْم

Exalted is Allah, and praise be to Allah, and there is no deity except Allah, and Allah is the Greatest. And there is no might nor power except in Allah, the Most High, the Most Great.


Kalimah Istighfar
The word of Penitence

اَسْتَغْفِرُ اللهَ رَبِّىْ مِنْ كُلِّ ذَنْۢبٍ اَذْنَبْتُهٗ عَمَدًا اَوْ خَطَا ًٔ سِرًّا اَوْ عَلَانِيَةً وَّاَتُوْبُ اِلَيْهِ مِنَ الذَّنْۢبِ الَّذِیْٓ اَعْلَمُ وَ مِنَ الذَّنْۢبِ الَّذِىْ لَآ اَعْلَمُ اِنَّكَ اَنْتَ
عَلَّامُ الْغُيُوْبِ وَ سَتَّارُ الْعُيُوْبِ و َغَفَّارُ الذُّنُوْبِ وَ لَا حَوْلَ وَلَا قُوَّةَ اِلَّا بِاللهِ الْعَلِىِّ الْعَظِيْمِؕ


I seek forgiveness from Allah, my Lord, from every sin I committed knowingly or unknowingly, secretly or openly, and I turn towards Him from the sin that I know and from the sin that I do not know. Certainly You, You (are) the knower of the hidden things and the Concealer (of) the mistakes and the Forgiver (of) the sins. And (there is) no power and no strength except from Allah, the Most High, the Most Great".



kalimat at-tawḥīd
Also known as the word of Unity

لَآ اِلٰهَ اِلَّا اللهُ وَحْدَهٗ لَا شَرِيْكَ لَهٗ لَهُ الْمُلْكُ وَ لَهُ الْحَمْدُ يُحْىٖ وَ يُمِيْتُ وَ هُوَحَیٌّ لَّا يَمُوْتُ اَبَدًا اَبَدًاؕ ذُو الْجَلَالِ وَالْاِكْرَامِؕ بِيَدِهِ الْخَيْرُؕ وَهُوَ عَلٰى كُلِّ شیْ ٍٔ قَدِیْرٌؕ

There is no deity except Allah - One is He, no partners hath He. His is the Dominion, and His is the Praise. He gives life and causes death, and He is Living, who will not die. He is Majesty and Munificence (Sublime). Within His Hand is (all) good. And He is, upon everything, Able (to exert His Will).



kalimat raddi kufr
Also known as the word of answer to unbelief

اَللَّهُمَّ اِنِّيْ اَعُوْذُ بِكَ مِنْ اَنْ اُشْرِكَ بِكَ شَيْئًا وَّ اَنَا اَعْلَمُ بِهِ وَ اَسْتَغْفِرُكَ لِمَا لَا اَعْلَمُ بِهِ تُبْتُ عَنْهُ وَ تَبَرَّأتُ مِنَ الْكُفْرِ وَ الشِّرْكِ وَ الْكِذْبِ وَ الْمَعَاصِيْ كُلِّهَا اَسْلَمْتُ وَ آمَنْتُ وَ اَقُوْلُ لَا اِلَهَ اِلَّا اللهُ مُحَمَّدٌ رَّسُوْلُ اللهِ

O Allah! Certainly I seek protection with You from associating You with anything and I know it. And I seek forgiveness from You for that I do not know it. I repented from it and I made myself free from disbelief and polytheism and the falsehood and the bad deeds, all of them. And I have submitted and I have believed and I say there is no deity but Allah, Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.

 

[Counter-Errorist]

___________________________________________________________________________


I would prefer a response in the public arena of the forum. My own view is that we speak of transparency, but many of us shrink away from it when it involves us. I would like to encourage you to reply on this open forum so that we can have an open discussion as Islam teaches. Shaitaan, the accursed, (and his henchmen) operates in the shadows.

The Muslim recognises the sovereignty of Allah and would rather displease the many and please Allah.

But this is the dichotomy facing Pakistan and so many other Muslim countries, and even us, as individual Muslims. The choice between our own so called 'freedoms' and submitting to the governance and will of Allah. It is quite ironic that 'freedom' in the western context means submitting to the will of the state. So it really becomes an academic choice - submit to Allah or reject HIM and submit to the state which rejects Allah; in word and deed. Separation of church and state, I think is how they like to put it, as though your heart could be separated from your brain.

So we have to make that choice my brothers/sisters. Allah guides those who turn to him. So follow your heart, only after asking HIM to guide you.

I've listed the Kalima's below as I was thought as a child. It seems to me that the modern republican state is in conflict with all of them.

If the choice comes down to pleasing Allah or the people, I choose the Creator. I choose to please HIM. I hope you make the same choice.



kalimat aṭ-ṭaiyibah
Also known as the Word of Purity

لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

There is no deity worthy of worship but Allah, [and] Muhammad (pbuh) is the messenger of Allah.



kalimat ash-shahadah or shahada
Also known as the word of testimony

أَشْهَدُ أنْ لا إلَٰهَ إِلَّا اللهُ وَحْدَهُ لَا شَرِيْكَ لَهُ وَأشْهَدُ أنَّ مُحَمَّدًا عَبْدُهُ وَرَسُولُهُ

I bear witness that (there is) no deity worthy of worship except Allah; One is He, no partner hath He, and I bear witness that Muhammad (pbuh) is His Servant and Messenger.

kalimat at-tamjīd
Also known as the word of glorification

سُبْحَان اللهِ وَالْحَمْدُلِلّهِ وَلا إِلهَ إِلّااللّهُ وَاللّهُ أكْبَرُ وَلا حَوْلَ وَلاَ قُوَّةَ إِلَّا بِاللّهِ الْعَلِيِّ الْعَظِيْم

Exalted is Allah, and praise be to Allah, and there is no deity except Allah, and Allah is the Greatest. And there is no might nor power except in Allah, the Most High, the Most Great.


kalimat at-tawḥīd
Also known as the word of Unity

لَآ اِلٰهَ اِلَّا اللهُ وَحْدَهٗ لَا شَرِيْكَ لَهٗ لَهُ الْمُلْكُ وَ لَهُ الْحَمْدُ يُحْىٖ وَ يُمِيْتُ وَ هُوَحَیٌّ لَّا يَمُوْتُ اَبَدًا اَبَدًاؕ ذُو الْجَلَالِ وَالْاِكْرَامِؕ بِيَدِهِ الْخَيْرُؕ وَهُوَ عَلٰى كُلِّ شیْ ٍٔ قَدِیْرٌؕ

There is no deity except Allah - One is He, no partners hath He. His is the Dominion, and His is the Praise. He gives life and causes death, and He is Living, who will not die, ever. He is Majesty and Munificence (Sublime). Within His Hand is (all) good. And He is, upon everything, Able (to exert His Will).


Kalimah Istighfar
The word of Penitence

اَسْتَغْفِرُ اللهَ رَبِّىْ مِنْ كُلِّ ذَنْۢبٍ اَذْنَبْتُهٗ عَمَدًا اَوْ خَطَا ًٔ سِرًّا اَوْ عَلَانِيَةً وَّاَتُوْبُ اِلَيْهِ مِنَ الذَّنْۢبِ الَّذِیْٓ اَعْلَمُ وَ مِنَ الذَّنْۢبِ الَّذِىْ لَآ اَعْلَمُ اِنَّكَ اَنْتَ
عَلَّامُ الْغُيُوْبِ وَ سَتَّارُ الْعُيُوْبِ و َغَفَّارُ الذُّنُوْبِ وَ لَا حَوْلَ وَلَا قُوَّةَ اِلَّا بِاللهِ الْعَلِىِّ الْعَظِيْمِؕ


I seek forgiveness from Allah, my Lord, from every sin I committed knowingly or unknowingly, secretly or openly, and I turn towards Him from the sin that I know and from the sin that I do not know. Certainly You, You (are) the knower of the hidden things and the Concealer (of) the mistakes and the Forgiver (of) the sins. And (there is) no power and no strength except from Allah, the Most High, the Most Great".
kalimat raddi kufr
Also known as the word of answer to unbelief

اَللَّهُمَّ اِنِّيْ اَعُوْذُ بِكَ مِنْ اَنْ اُشْرِكَ بِكَ شَيْئًا وَّ اَنَا اَعْلَمُ بِهِ وَ اَسْتَغْفِرُكَ لِمَا لَا اَعْلَمُ بِهِ تُبْتُ عَنْهُ وَ تَبَرَّأتُ مِنَ الْكُفْرِ وَ الشِّرْكِ وَ الْكِذْبِ وَ الْمَعَاصِيْ كُلِّهَا اَسْلَمْتُ وَ آمَنْتُ وَ اَقُوْلُ لَا اِلَهَ اِلَّا اللهُ مُحَمَّدٌ رَّسُوْلُ اللهِ

O Allah! Certainly I seek protection with You from associating You with anything and I know it. And I seek forgiveness from You for that I do not know it. I repented from it and I made myself free from disbelief and polytheism and the falsehood and the bad deeds, all of them. And I have submitted and I have believed and I say there is no deity but Allah, Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.

Okay.... !!!

 

[Yusuf Essop]

Okay.... !!!

Short and sweet, but I found it somewhat dismissive, I'm afraid.

I was talking about a response to my earlier posts on fiat currency and the monetary system being a system of riba (impoverishing the masses) and general governance. Can you reply to that post please? And please, don't be afraid to pontificate.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Well my message to the people of the "long march for democracy" in 2007

 

[Panther 57]

Riba, Fiat Currency and Islamic Banking

Why have Muslim countries (such as Pakistan) chosen to use fiat currency when it follows that this is the vehicle of riba? Why does my research show that a thinly disguised western system of banking is being used by these so called Islamic banks? Which has the same result as that of Western Banking – the masses of the people being robbed of their wealth through this so called inflation (which is really theft) and being pushed into poverty. Why don’t Muslim countries use gold and silver coinage as money to avoid this very serious sin (a declaration of war from our creator you must admit is extremely serious) against Allah and his Prophets (pbuh).

Trading in Gold or similar commodities is the ideal situation, which will help control inflation and maintain buying power of individuals. In order to understand the gruesome situation of banking system it is essential to understand as to how paper currency came into circulation. The history of paper currency goes back to Tang Dynasty when heavy coins were exchanged for a receipt as proof of their deposit. To establish this system muslims also played a very important role.

Paper currency reduced the need to risky transportation of gold and silver; it facilitated loans, since the underlying commodity which was gold or silver never left the possession of the lender until someone else redeemed the note; and it allowed a division of currency into credit and specie backed forms. It enabled the sale ofstockinjoint stock companies, and the redemption of thosesharesin paper.

Advantages and disadvantages of a system is always packaged. Since a currency note has no intrinsic value, there was nothing to stop issuing authorities to print more currency notes than actual back up commodity. Whenever such activity will take place it will increase the inflationary pressure. Furthermore, more demand for money will result in supply of currency and principle of supply & demand will increase the price of commodity i.e. currency in this case, thus overvalued to meet the demand. Currency has been used to finance wars, which instilled its roots in the monetary system of world. Worst of all was during WW II when both the sides were being financed by handful individuals. These individuals were not philanthropist, but businessmen or should I say money lenders. Their objective was to take advantage of war and make money. Therefore, financing was against some commodity, which was Gold. During this war when whole world was smelling of gun and smoke two places, namely New York and Switzerland, were collecting gold and converting it into currency to sustain war. After the war another opportunity of rebuilding emerged, just like this era. This time green back was essential for all procurement, which was to be purchased against gold. By the time WWII and its reconstruction ended 80% of gold was in the hands of few individuals. Final endorsement of conversion of medium of trade from precious metals to green back was through establishment of IMF and World Bank (an altogether a complete subject of discussion).


This system of fiat money can be replaced by gold based system again, but a list of impediments and snags await the implementers. Injection of paper currency into gold based trading was spread over centuries to say from 7th – 13th Century. It was easy, as at that point in time receipts were actual acknowledgement of commodity deposited. Things went wrong when it was linked with US$ and over printing of receipts . Any country having intention to revert this system will have to have large amount of precious metals to produce coins in the same. Unfortunately, dependence on dollar /international currency based system has resulted in devoid of these commodities with central banks. Thus an overnight changing of currency to precious metals is not possible. This system cannot be implemented in stages as those getting conversion of their present currency into gold coins at later stage will be at loss. It would suddenly increase the demand for gold; hence put extreme inflationary pressures on people. The only way is to build precious metal reserves equal to money in circulation and overnight declare corresponding values forever. Thus closing all doors to printing of currency notes to meet market demand of paper money, till alternate is available for trade. This is just an example, there are numerous other reasons which would hinder the reversion to original Gold based system. In short disturbing present system would be disastrous for economy of country and result in total collapse.

Only viable option is to maintain paper currency with the backing of corresponding precious metal to control inflation. That would too need total selfless dedication by the people in power corridors of that country.


Now coming to interest or in other words considered Riba. In my opinion, because of which I mentioned “I can respond to your questions, however, my views may not be in line with what you want to hear and displease many.” , what we call interest today is not Riba. To understand this we have to understand the philosophy behind declaration of Riba as Haram. Riba was declared haram on the basis of exploitation by money lenders. Terms of loan disbursed by lenders during those days were such that person getting a loan would keep on paying interest for life, with principal remaining constant. The lender would lend the money irrespective of the financial worth of borrower, only at the will of lender. In most of the cases lending was done to the people who were stuck in difficult situation and had no chance of being able to return the capital in one go. It was a sort of slavery. In present time the situation is not such. Why I say so? In modern banking system those who are keeping money in bank are rich, bank is not in dire need of money, it is the choice of person to keep the money at home or keep it in bank. Thus, element of exploitation does not come in. Banks approach people for making their clientele so that bank can use their money for business and grow its wealth. In this bargain they come up with different schemes of sharing the profits earned through business, which was actually done using depositors money. This gives an opportunity to the depositor to select a bank which is giving the best return. A prudent look into the system indicates that banks are actually not giving anything to the investor. They are offering them returns which are almost 50% of the prevailing currency discount rate. If the depositor converts his or her investment in precious metal and keeps it; he would maintained his buying power. whereas by depositing the money in bank, even with the annual return his buying power is reducing by 50% or more of the discount rate.


On the other hand banks are not lending money to needy. Most of the bank financing is being done against a bankable feasibility of new business, expansion of already flourishing business, facilitation of trade and procurement of luxury consumer goods. In all those cases a collateral much high in value is being used as guarantee. Consequently no act of exploitation is committed. Those who are borrowing from banks are safeguarding their interest some way. Against that they are paying the bank a fee. In case of business or consumer goods finance, the borrower is wealthy enough to generate sufficient money for self-financing; yet resorts to bank financing. In trade banks are being used as a medium to safeguard against frauds. Thus, banks end up charging a service fee. Just by using the name “Interest” does not make it Riba.


Therefore, in my opinion interest in modern banking system is not Riba. However, I totally agree that this system is very much instrumental in ever growing inflation, due to multiple reasons. Again an altogether different subject, which can be put to vehement debate, independently.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Not true . He added 2 GW in 8 years .

Correction: Major contributor in this is the commissioning of Ghazi Barotha hydroelectric project. Had NS's government not been toppled, this project would have come on line regardless. In fact Mush did next to nothing. His decision to supply natural gas to power plants had some immediate positive effects, but over the long run his (lack of) policy for natural gas was a disaster.

@Mav3rick , I could engage you in debate, but really this thread just needs to die. There is no value in discussing merits of Musharraf's policies now. We see the results everyday in Pakistan - starting from Kargil and ending at NRO with a lot in between.

 

[Mav3rick]

@Mav3rick , I could engage you in debate, but really this thread just needs to die. There is no value in discussing merits of Musharraf's policies now. We see the results everyday in Pakistan - starting from Kargil and ending at NRO with a lot in between.

I have to agree with you, as next you may just start blaming Jinnah for creating Pakistan which, as you would say, has led to all these problems!! Because that's exactly how you have projected Musharraf's policy returns today completely discarding whatever happened post Musharraf as well as the realistic options that he had post 9/11 and not even considering the fact that any political setup would have bent over backwards after 9/11!!

 

[arushbhai]

All the progress during his time was synthetic and short sighted. He lived on foreign aid. He initiated no project for the benefit of people.