Musharraf: Pakistan Exposed India's Military Weakness

[Awesome]

PAF did not have BVR equipped planes in '99.

Secondly, any use of PAF would have given India the perfect excuse necessary to cross the LoC. PAF was not used to keep plausible deniability of PA involvement in Kargil.

You cant have both-deniability and PAF. Use of PAF would have led India to widen the scale and scope of war.

True, but PAF does have BVR capability now and perhaps could've easily gotten it sooner as well if to use them in an offensive role was ever envisaged.

Pakistan has never worried about India crossing the LoC, simply put its a logistical nightmare for India with very few passages on India's side. However crossing the IB was a concern, but with nukes in the scenario, India was very hesitant about that as well now. It wasn't 1965 any more.

It's true, we can't have deniability and a full fledged war at the same time. Another mis-planned aspect of Musharraf's plan. I always maintain, what Musharraf did wasn't wrong, how he did it was wrong.

 

[Spring Onion]

I believe Kargil was just a drama that Musharaf staged to create bad air b/w him & Nawaz Sharif... So that as a result Musharaf would have excuse to bring Martial Law... Would anyone believe Nawaz really kept that plane from landing inside Pak...!!!

As Hamid Gul said that Martial Law of Musharaf was pre-planned by Americans... Since they had plans to invade Afghanistan & wanted an all-in-all "King" in Pakistan who would act as a slave to Americans...

On one hand Americans made Musharaf invade Kargil while on the other hand kept indian side from having a severe reaction... I mean if Kargil was for-real then it would have been start of a full fledged war b/w Pak & india,,, which did NOT happen...


Kargil was just one episode of the bigger 9-11 stage drama...

NO it wasnt a drama but a miscalculated move without full preparation.


I know the people who were leading some fronts during that episode, and all i understood there was no preparation for indulging in such a high intensity engagement with India specially when you do not have a solid supply line. The air force was not taken into confidence neither even thought of being used.

You can not win the battle completely by pitching soldiers who were trained in just one month ahead of the clash.

 

[KS]

True, but PAF does have BVR capability now and perhaps could've easily gotten it sooner as well if to use them in an offensive role was ever envisaged.

eh...?!?! with all due respect Ur saying as if not going BVR capable was a deliberate Pakistani decision.. No,,,
the truth is that they were not being offered the BVR capability by the americans.
The US gave Pakistan BVR weapons only after the WOT started if im not wrong.
So ur statement is completely wrong here.

Pakistan has never worried about India crossing the LoC, simply put its a logistical nightmare for India with very few passages on India's side. However crossing the IB was a concern, but with nukes in the scenario, India was very hesitant about that as well now. It wasn't 1965 any more.

Again factually wrong......India knew very well that Pakistan after blasting her first nukes just in late 1998 was in no postion to nuke india (non-availability of bombs)...even if u had they would hardly be 1 or 2 bonbs in the sub-kiloton range which would hardly scratch India.
So the nuke threat is being overplayed here.

The only reason India didn cross the LoC was because the regular Pakistani military didn take part in the Kargil fiasco...Only the paramilitaries and paid terrorists crossed the borders.

It's true, we can't have deniability and a full fledged war at the same time. Another mis-planned aspect of Musharraf's plan. I always maintain, what Musharraf did wasn't wrong, how he did it was wrong.

Then u could have very well stopped Vajpayee ji on the border and asked him to go back instead of inviting him there and playing peaceful hosts.

 

[LaBong]

Then u could have very well stopped Vajpayee ji on the border and asked him to go back instead of inviting him there and playing peaceful hosts.

Indeed that's what takes the cake.

 

[LaBong]

However crossing the IB was a concern, but with nukes in the scenario, India was very hesitant about that as well now.

India was hesitant at first, but if push came to shove then nuke or no-nuke a full-fledge war was certain. But off-course we have our share of politicians too who asks IAF to bomb our own territory and people but don't let them to cross LOC when our soldiers dying at the front.

 

[Masterchief]

yeah im too in this favour no talks with india.
Coz u r never were ready to talk , its ur hipocracy u show to the world tht u r ready to talk.U know ur minister came to Pakistan for Talks and 1 phone call came and his behaviour was changed , i think david headly called him to tell the our FM was also involved Mumbai attacks

one should talk to only those who listen, pakistani army has a bad habit to try to salvage some pride in their losses, and regarding musharraf the man is hated everywhere because he branded pakistani martyrs as not soldiers, and regarding headly he told the world that he was from ISI

 

[Awesome]

India isn't capable of crossing the IB, it wasn't in 1965, its worse off now. So don't kid yourself there. Pakistan's defensive capabilities are very strong. Any Indian victory across the IB would only be if India commits 100% of its resources and the best result India would achieve is getting eunicized in the process if not totally annihilated as well.

Now that we've gotten that out of the way, lets stick to topic about what Musharraf said and didn't.

 

[Swift]

India did cross the IB in 1965 and 1971. Just FYI.

A delusion, in everyday language, is a fixed belief that is either false, fanciful, or derived from deception.

Source : Wikipedia

 

[Join]

India isn't capable of crossing the IB, it wasn't in 1965, its worse off now. So don't kid yourself there. Pakistan's defensive capabilities are very strong. Any Indian victory across the IB would only be if India commits 100% of its resources and the best result India would achieve is getting eunicized in the process if not totally annihilated as well.

Now that we've gotten that out of the way, lets stick to topic about what Musharraf said and didn't.

Our offense will only be shown when Some of the Neighboring Soldiers Come Inside our territory.... We would rather not choose to defend Ourselves from an army marching towards us, but we would prefer to march towards them, and that exactly is our doctrine and strategy....

So if you army is not capable enough to step out of its boundary, Just relax, Indian army wouldnt cross its limit aswell.....

and what do u mean we did not cross boundry in 1965??? lahore , remember???

 

[LaBong]

India isn't capable of crossing the IB, it wasn't in 1965, its worse off now. So don't kid yourself there. Pakistan's defensive capabilities are very strong. Any Indian victory across the IB would only be if India commits 100% of its resources and the best result India would achieve is getting eunicized in the process if not totally annihilated as well.

Now that we've gotten that out of the way, lets stick to topic about what Musharraf said and didn't.

Pardon if I post another off-topic, but it isn't about crossing the IB or having a conventional victory, rather opening multiple fronts to engage the enemy where logistically you can be at a favourable position or at least at an equal position with the enemy.

 

[Awesome]

Getting your ***** handed to you in Lahore's minute incursion doesn't count as crossing the LoC. In this way Bangladesh invades India every other month

 

[Join]

Getting your ***** handed to you in Lahore's minute incursion doesn't count as crossing the LoC. In this way Bangladesh invades India every other month

I am sorry, as Your history is so strong, when was the last time India-Bangladesh had a war????

 

[Awesome]

I am sorry, as Your history is so strong, when was the last time India-Bangladesh had a war????

Well, We showed Pakistans Weakness In 1971,1963 and 1999 , But still, Mr.Musharraf cannot comprehend it???

You're mocking my history? Let me guess, perhaps it was the 1963 war

 

[Join]

You're mocking my history? Let me guess, perhaps it was the 1963 war

1963 China and Pakistan delimited a boundary, that was the beginning, so If I use it , no harm buddy..... well Even though it was my mistake 1963 instead of 65, but I still have an answer to justify it....

What about you dear?? U speak of something which never happened

 

[nForce]

I'm reminded of this article which so succinctly binds the in-cohesiveness and smugness of the planners of Kargil.

Aeronaut: Kargil Conflict and Pakistan Air Force

Very nicely written blog,quite insightful indeed. Thanks a lot Asim Aquil