Musharraf: Pakistan Exposed India's Military Weakness

[RobbieS]

Kargil was also a wake-up call for Indian defence establishment. From the first inputs of infiltration to the first coordinated response, it took them close to 4 weeks.

 

[jha]

I think the worst part of planning was trying to pull off that it was the Mujahideen and not NLI that was occupying the heights. But once India got its act together and bodies of regular Pak soldiers began arriving, the truth was staring everybody in the face.

In terms of initial surprise it was a masterstroke, but Mushy under-estimated India's response. And Nawaz failed to follow up with a diplomatic offensive.

This has always been a problem with the generals who are planning to invade or, send soldiers inside kashmir...
In 1965 Gen. Musha didnot expect indian retaliation to Op. Gibraltar..(which was ridiculous)...in '99 Musharraf did not expect that his plans will back fire (which was again a ridiculous thing )..
Someone has rightly said- WAR is a too serious business to be left for generals..

 

[scrumpy]

This has always been a problem with the generals who are planning to invade or, send soldiers inside kashmir...
In 1965 Gen. Musha didnot expect indian retaliation to Op. Gibraltar..(which was ridiculous)...in '99 Musharraf did not expect that his plans will back fire (which was again a ridiculous thing )..
Someone has rightly said- WAR is a too serious business to be left for generals..

Hindsight is always 20/20.

I think post Lahore bus diplomacy was the period when Pakistan and India were the closest. Common people had all but forgotten the wars between the 2 countries. Kargil just ruined it all.

 

[welcome]

President

What he did for Pakistan ?

kargil war....and responsible for 5000 dead from both side...

 

[Meengla]

Hmmm. I don't think Musharraf initiated Kargil attack to humiliate NS and gain power. I think it was the hurt ego of Pakistani generals (the loss of Siachen) which prompted the Kargil war. Equally important was Musharraf's perception that NS had given away too much to Vajpayee and basically ignored Kashmir. Final stimulus came in the form of Pakistan's new-found nuclear-umbrella: Conventional war was deemed not possible given a possible use of tactical nukes. This last point probably stood validated: Unlike in 1965 Indian forces in 1999 did not cross the International border despite several days of fighting.

It was Pakistan's weak economy and diplomatic isolation during Kargil war which forced the pullback in Kargil. Had it been solid international backing, especially by China, and a strong economy then other resources of Pakistani military would have been used at a time when India was using Bofors and IAF planes.

So, it is the loss of Siachen, as said by Benazir Bhutto's video (can be seen as a thumbnail link when the above video ends), which was the prime 'revenge' motive. And I have seen Musharraf justifying Kargil because of Siachen.

PS. I don't think any discussion of Kargil can be complete without accounting for Indian role in 1971 (E.Pakistan), 1984 (Siachen), and in Pakistan's western borders since 9/11; there are no purely innocent parties here; intelligent, peace loving people always try to look through the eyes of their adversary and find a common ground.

 

[mikkix]

Kargil war a stupidity, blunder and crime committed by Mush....
Martyred hundreds of Pakistani soldiers there for his satisfaction to capture Kashmir...
Kashmir will not be succeeded until the time comes when nature calls you to stand up....
The war will be fought for defense not for offense...

 

[mikkix]

Pakistan also exposed himself in kargil because the kargil war shows how good their Air force were and Pakistan air planes could not even fly because they knows their capability to counter Indian planes..

 

[sur]

...Kargil happened in '99, so the US was planning the 9/11 for 2 years? ....

Actually for much longer than that...

Operation Northwoods

in 1962. The plan called for Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) or other operatives to commit genuine acts of terrorism in U.S. cities and elsewhere....to create public support for a war against that nation... hijackings and bombings followed by the introduction of phony evidence...

From Minutes:2:30

 

[RobbieS]

Hmmm. I don't think Musharraf initiated Kargil attack to humiliate NS and gain power. I think it was the hurt ego of Pakistani generals (the loss of Siachen) which prompted the Kargil war. Equally important was Musharraf's perception that NS had given away too much to Vajpayee and basically ignored Kashmir.

Kargil preparations and initial infiltrations across the LOC had begun even before the Lahore Summit, where Vajpayee went amidst much fanfare. As the summit hadnt even started, the issue of NS conceding to Vajpayee doesnt even arise. The fact of thw matter is that while India was thinking of peace and perceivably led its guard down as a result, Gen. Mushi was planning his own path to glory.

Final stimulus came in the form of Pakistan's new-found nuclear-umbrella: Conventional war was deemed not possible given a possible use of tactical nukes. This last point probably stood validated: Unlike in 1965 Indian forces in 1999 did not cross the International border despite several days of fighting.

You might need to check the '65 war history. It was Pakistan that crossed the border by sending in paratroopers in Op. Gibraltar. And it was Pakistan that opened up another front, this time in IB when Gibraltar flopped and the 1000 or so commandos were trapped inside Indian territorry by the IA with local Kashmiri support, I must add.

It was Pakistan's weak economy and diplomatic isolation during Kargil war which forced the pullback in Kargil. Had it been solid international backing, especially by China, and a strong economy then other resources of Pakistani military would have been used at a time when India was using Bofors and IAF planes.

So, it is the loss of Siachen, as said by Benazir Bhutto's video (can be seen as a thumbnail link when the above video ends), which was the prime 'revenge' motive. And I have seen Musharraf justifying Kargil because of Siachen.

PS. I don't think any discussion of Kargil can be complete without accounting for Indian role in 1971 (E.Pakistan), 1984 (Siachen), and in Pakistan's western borders since 9/11; there are no purely innocent parties here; intelligent, peace loving people always try to look through the eyes of their adversary and find a common ground.

War plans are never hatched in isolation from their political and diplomatic fall-outs. It was the biggest blunder not to anticipate global response. Overestimating Chinese support and the strength of the Pakistani economy and underestimating Indian military and diplomatic response were Gen. Mush's faults. But none bigger than not taking the political establishment into full confidence.

And that is the dilemma the Indian leadership always faces when talking peace with Pakistan. When a Gen. can cause a war leading to the loss of 5000 lives without informing his political masters, what's the guarantee it wont happen again? And whats the guarantee that the Querishis, the Gilanis and the Zardaris are the real decision makers of Pakistan and for how long? Whom does India talk to?

 

[Join]

Well, We showed Pakistans Weakness In 1971,1965 and 1999 , But still, Mr.Musharraf cannot comprehend it???

 

[Awesome]

I'm reminded of this article which so succinctly binds the in-cohesiveness and smugness of the planners of Kargil.

Aeronaut: Kargil Conflict and Pakistan Air Force

When Lt Gen Mehmud asked for questions at the end of the rather crisp and to-the-point briefing, Air Cdre Saleem Nawaz opened up by inquiring about the type of air support that might be needed for the operation. Lt Gen Mehmud assured us that air support was not envisaged and that his forces could take care of enemy aircraft, if they intervened. “I have Stingers on every peak,” he announced. Air Cdre Saleem tried to point out the limited envelope of these types of missiles and said that nothing stopped the IAF from attacking the posts and artillery pieces from high altitude. To this, Lt Gen Mehmud’s reply was that his troops were well camouflaged and concealed and, that IAF pilots would not be able to pick out the posts from the air. As the discussion became more animated, I asked the Corps Commander if he was sure the Indians would not use their artillery to vacate our incursion, given the criticality of the situation from their standpoint. He replied that the Dras-Kargil stretch did not allow for positioning of the hundreds of guns that would be required, due to lack of depth; in any case, it would be suicidal for the Indians to denude artillery firepower from any other sector as defensive balance had to be maintained. He gave the example of the Kathua-Jammu Sector where the Indians had a compulsion to keep the bulk of their modern Bofors guns due to the vital road link’s vulnerability to our offensive elements.

It seemed from the Corps Commander’s smug appreciation of the situation that the Indians had been tightly straitjacketed in Dras-Kargil Sector and had no option but to submit to our operational design. More significantly, an alternate action like a strategic riposte by the Indians in another sector had been rendered out of question, given the nuclear environment. Whether resort to an exterior manoeuvre (diplomatic offensive) by the beleaguered Indians had crossed the planners’ minds, it was not discernable in the Corps Commander’s elucidation.

Perhaps it was the incredulousness of the whole thing that led Air Cdre Abid Rao to famously quip, “After this operation, it’s going to be either a Court Martial or Martial Law!” as we walked out of the briefing room.

As military circles speculate, the back breaker to this "I have a stinger on every peak" plan (the entire operation hinged on these stingers), was that the Israeli technological aid that India received allowed the IAF to bomb these peaks from an altitude beyond the range of the stingers. The first few weeks of the battle Mehmud's plan worked.

If PAF's readiness would have been sought the outcome of the war would've been much different. A little resistance from PAF would've meant that IAF would've been uneasy with high altitude bombing, but Musharraf's advisors bluntly declared PAF is not needed.

I think if Musharraf would've fixed his own house first and then went on to attack India much later, India would've still been naive to the fact that Pakistanis can penetrate the snowy glaciers even in the winter and with some BVR capability the fight would've ended up in more favorable results for Pakistan.

The goals of the mission were fine. Something like this should've been tried, but only when it could've worked and it could have, under a different general.

---------- Post added at 01:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:05 PM ----------

Well, We showed Pakistans Weakness In 1971,1963 and 1999 , But still, Mr.Musharraf cannot comprehend it???

Perhaps because Musharraf and the rest of Pakistan slept through the 1963 war.

 

[Contrarian]

If PAF's readiness would have been sought the outcome of the war would've been much different. A little resistance from PAF would've meant that IAF would've been uneasy with high altitude bombing, but Musharraf's advisors bluntly declared PAF is not needed.

I think if Musharraf would've fixed his own house first and then went on to attack India much later, India would've still been naive to the fact that Pakistanis can penetrate the snowy glaciers even in the winter and with some BVR capability the fight would've ended up in more favorable results for Pakistan.

The goals of the mission were fine. Something like this should've been tried, but only when it could've worked and it could have, under a different general.

PAF did not have BVR equipped planes in '99.

Secondly, any use of PAF would have given India the perfect excuse necessary to cross the LoC. PAF was not used to keep plausible deniability of PA involvement in Kargil.

You cant have both-deniability and PAF. Use of PAF would have led India to widen the scale and scope of war.

 

[Join]

Perhaps because Musharraf and the rest of Pakistan slept through the 1963 war.

There, you cracked the riddle

 

[AstanoshKhan]

I believe Kargil was just a drama that Musharaf staged to create bad air b/w him & Nawaz Sharif... So that as a result Musharaf would have excuse to bring Martial Law... Would anyone believe Nawaz really kept that plane from landing inside Pak...!!!

As Hamid Gul said that Martial Law of Musharaf was pre-planned by Americans... Since they had plans to invade Afghanistan & wanted an all-in-all "King" in Pakistan who would act as a slave to Americans...

On one hand Americans made Musharaf invade Kargil while on the other hand kept indian side from having a severe reaction... I mean if Kargil was for-real then it would have been start of a full fledged war b/w Pak & india,,, which did NOT happen...


Kargil was just one episode of the bigger 9-11 stage drama...

Can the same be said for the existing COAS in contrast to the text in Red? or he - the COAS is up for clearing up the mess created by Musharraf? Pardon me for my ignorance or lack of vision but I don't see any improvement at all, the situation has gone worse than better and who knows, if Musharraf was a rate serving someone else's means, then we'll definitely have other rates doing the same job but with different approach.

 

[EgO Boy]

I hope Musharraf is President again.

THAT'S WHY U R BANNED.