Musharraf Ki Yaad AAyi Us Kay Janay Kay Baad

[qsaark]

Sir jee, I suugest you go through the results of 2008 elections you would have discovered PML-Q won 40 odd seats in the national assembly.

Who said 2008 elections were fair and free? What was the plan? Why NRO? Was PML(N) not forced to run the election campaign with most of her leadership in exile and under the ruthlessness of Musharraf/PML(Q) government while at the same time the PPP was given more levy? Musharraf's plan was to let the PPP and PML(Q) win enough seats so that they could form a coalition government and work or act as 2002 rubber stamp parliament under his 'leadership'. Too bad for the runaway commando, Zardari proved smarter and he outmaneuvered the 'mein darta warta nahin' following the elections.

 

[FreekiN]

Pervez Musharraf (FromPM) on Twitter

Musharraf's twitter account

 

[sparklingway]

Too bad for the runaway commando, Zardari proved smarter and he outmaneuvered the 'mein darta warta nahin' following the elections.

Mush fans always try to defend his worst acts, NRO and Emergency. People indulging in personality worshiping fail to objectively view a personality.

I have finally reached a conclusion, that you reached long ago. Convincing people who are too convinced about their own opinion and limited to their tunnel vision is impossible.

“The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: Be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge.”

 

[z9-ec]

Who said 2008 elections were fair and free? What was the plan? Why NRO? Was PML(N) not forced to run the election campaign with most of her leadership in exile and under the ruthlessness of Musharraf/PML(Q) government while at the same time the PPP was given more levy? Musharraf's plan was to let the PPP and PML(Q) win enough seats so that they could form a coalition government and work or act as 2002 rubber stamp parliament under his 'leadership'. Too bad for the runaway commando, Zardari proved smarter and he outmaneuvered the 'mein darta warta nahin' following the elections.

This is hilarious. LOL.

So now the election was fraudaluent and rigged? for what purpose please enlighten me. Your assumptions are mere speculation made up by conspiracy therories. If you have proof file a petition in the "free" supreme court!

For PML-Q (Kings party as you call it) to lose? and PML-N of all the crap out there to gain?

That sure must be a joke. PPP and PML-Q alliance never came into existence.

Why NRO?

Here I quote from his own facebook page:

I very much feel responsible for answering this question which is rightly agitating many minds. However because of certain political sensitivities, I will have to pend the answer for the time being with a promise that I will take the nation on board at the appropriate time. The one clarification that I will make is that I committed this mistake on the strong advice of the political leadership at that time, who are now blatantly disowning connections with it. My interest was only national with absolutely no personal bias or agenda.

Question: “Through the NRO you brought corrupt politicians to power and made Zardari the President.”
NRO may have allowed Asif Zardari or corrupt politicians to contest elections but it certainly was not the cause of their coming to power. NRO is not responsible for electing the PPP as the majority party or allowing Asif Zardari to win an election. NRO is not responsible for corrupt politicians sitting in Assemblies, or being appointed as Ministers. All this happened through the votes of the people of Pakistan. NRO is not responsible for all Parliamentarians of Provincial and National Assemblies and Senate having overwhelmingly voted for Asif Zardari as President. The nation has to learn to cast their votes for the right person and the right party.

lik i said pml q will not be supporting musharraf. and if u are aware of ground politics, its very different than how u see it. pml q itself has no vote bank. all those ppl who won were those who had their own vote bank. such as MNA from jhang area etc.
if you go and stand for pml q, u will hardly get any vote. for other parties its very different. pml n and ppp even if they make a donkey stand in their respective areas, that donkey will win. this is called party vote.
and about the ground situation, well again u have to see it in a very different way. no one in baluchistan and khyber will vote for musharraf even they get zero electricity. similar is for interior sindh. karachi and hyderabad are mqm areas and we all know mqm will never sacrifice their vote bank in their two only cities. punjab is the only province where he can get some vote from which will again be not enough.

Here's how I see it, I gave you factual proof of his support and you came up with "I believe reality is different they have no support"

Purely, speculative.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

They not only support him but they also blame Musharaf's cabinet/policy makers at that time for all of the bad decisions made and Musharaf is credited for the good decisions.

I cannot understand their logic behind it!

 

[sparklingway]

They not only support him but they also blame Musharaf's cabinet/policy makers at that time for all of the bad decisions made and Musharaf is credited for the good decisions.

I cannot understand their logic behind it!

The logic is simple : The Messiah takes credit for the good decisions for he is to be worhsipped to the point of godliness and bad decisions have to be blamed on cronies for the messiah can never be wrong.

Also, defend NRO by saying that it's sole purpose was not to save his skin and remain in power, rather it was aimed at "reconciliation".

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

No body is perfect but he gave free media and local governments , look how Karachi under local government made the city great.

During Democracy of PPP and PML we had PTV and STN and both had 9.00 clock news on PTV for foot licking to them and opposition was kept away from TV.

 

[SSGPA1]

Mush fans always try to defend his worst acts, NRO and Emergency. People indulging in personality worshiping fail to objectively view a personality.

I have finally reached a conclusion, that you reached long ago. Convincing people who are too convinced about their own opinion and limited to their tunnel vision is impossible.

“The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: Be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge.”

This is very common excuse from IK and NS supporters ... no one ever claims that Gen. Musharraf is error free, he himslef accepts that he made mistakes and calls NRO a grave mistake.

With all his errors and his mistakes, Gen. Musharraf's supporters feel that he is still better than NS and Zardari. We feel this way because all of us have different set of priorities for success and Gen. Mushrraf's rule meets our success ratings.

For me personally, number of tax payers need to be increased and he did work on it. Gawader was a top rpiority and his govt. finished that project. I always belived in self reliance in defence and he was able to get JF-17 and Augusta. There are many other achievements for example freedom to media.

As far as IK is concerned, he is going to end up like JI and late Nawabzada Nasarullah Khan.

You and others have the right to disagree and support someone who is more aligned to your goals and approach for success in Pakistan but lets not call it personality worshipping.

 

[ajpirzada]

Here's how I see it, I gave you factual proof of his support and you came up with "I believe reality is different they have no support"

Purely, speculative.

not speculative at all. i have worked as a political worker in punjab (NA-64) and know how politics work. but im not in a hurry to prove anyone wrong so lets wait for next elections.

 

[a.dagha]

No body is perfect but he gave free media and local governments , look how Karachi under local government made the city great.

During Democracy of PPP and PML we had PTV and STN and both had 9.00 clock news on PTV for foot licking to them and opposition was kept away from TV.

Of course nobody is perfect. But there is GOOD and BAD. NRO, Steel Mill Corruption, Other Corrupt Privatisation, Misused Aid, Treason etc. = Bad.

As for the media argument, it is quite weak. Next you are going to tell me Musharraf gave us internet. There is something called 'technological advancement'. These led to a whole era of globalisation, something we are still undergoing today. Tomorrow, if someone hails the PPP government for bringing 3g internet, would you accept that?

Hence the only reason media flourished was because of the internet age that pretty much took off after 2000. When the media went against Musharraf, he tried to shut it up by force and we all know what happened when he declared emergency in the country for the second time.

 

[a.dagha]

With all his errors and his mistakes, Gen. Musharraf's supporters feel that he is still better than NS and Zardari. We feel this way because all of us have different set of priorities for success and Gen. Mushrraf's rule meets our success ratings.

One small question. Does legitimacy and legality not matter? Is democracy only good enough when it meets OUR goals? Musharraf came through acts that are defined as 'High Treason' in our constitution. And yes, I know I sound like an 'unrealistic intellectual idealist' or whatever. But, I believe that lawbreakers should be treated as such. To me, he is just as good as any petty criminal. Sure you could argue that the criminal had a just cause like feeding his family or something but he is a criminal nonetheless.

Furthermore, I could never agree with someone supporting a power usurper who would bend the very fabric of governance to extend his own rule i.e. ammending the constitution and making the country a "one man show", trying to get himself reelected as a civilian president from a soon-to-expire senate, arresting political workers and media officials left-right-center etc etc etc.

A spade is a spade; treason is treason.

 

[ajpirzada]

Of course nobody is perfect. But there is GOOD and BAD. NRO, Steel Mill Corruption, Other Corrupt Privatisation, Misused Aid, Treason etc. = Bad.

As for the media argument, it is quite weak. Next you are going to tell me Musharraf gave us internet. There is something called 'technological advancement'. These led to a whole era of globalisation, something we are still undergoing today. Tomorrow, if someone hails the PPP government for bringing 3g internet, would you accept that?

Hence the only reason media flourished was because of the internet age that pretty much took off after 2000. When the media went against Musharraf, he tried to shut it up by force and we all know what happened when he declared emergency in the country for the second time.

gud one

 

[sparklingway]

Credit should be given when deserved. One: for the past 35 years, our rulers -- both civilian and otherwise -- have been distorting our Constitution. Under a PPP government a consensus has now been reached to get rid of those distortions. Two: under a PPP government, our jails do not have a single political prisoner. Three: under a PPP government there has been a consensus National Finance Commission Award. Four: under a PPP government our media is freer than ever.

Now the bad news. Pakistan is in a state of crisis. And, the six major drivers behind the crisis are: inflation, unemployment, loadshedding, war on extremism, corruption and the executive-judiciary tussle.

Dr Farrukh Saleem who has quite a few dictatorship apologist leanings.

The four points Farrukh Saleem raise, I'll compare with the time of the Absconder Commando:-

1. Musharraf trampled the Constitution for it bears no regard in the eyes of most of our Khaki lords and as our supreme leader Zia would say it is "nothing more than a piece of paper".

2. Our jails were full of political prisoners. From an incarcerated Makhdoom Javed Hashmi to our present chief Executive, Syed Yousaf Raza Gillani to the thousands of workers and civil activists who were kept in illegal extended custody, sent on judicial remands, put in house arrests and sent to jails during the period between March 9, 2007 and the very last days of the government of Absconder Commando and his cronies. An MNA (Zamurrad Khan) got his arm broken when a constable of Islamabad Police tried to beat another MNA (Aitzaz Ahsan) and Zamurrad Khan jumped to protect his leader, such was the level of barbarity.

The third person in the Warrant/Order of Precedence of the Pakistan, the Chief Justice of Pakistan was kept in an illegal, extended house arrest after he was illegally removed from his post when the nation's law set out to challenge a person who had committed treason, time and again. Such was the respect for law.

Under the present regime, we saw a huge Long March, but the presence of a democratic regime was visible as besides a found unfortunate incidents, nobody got a broken bone or a crushed skull or better everybody returned to their homes rather than being confined to the walls of a jail cell.

3. As under all totalitarian and autocratic regimes, no form of decentralization and dissent could be tolerated and the military was used to rig the "local bodies" election. I'm not alleging anything, reports can be throughout the websites of international observes and institutions. Crafting a democratic image is tantamount to cheating the whole nation.

4. As a.dagha argued, the freedom of the media was an evolutionary process, but I'll give credit when it's due and had it not been for the absconder commando, the process would have suffered glitches and would have been obstructed time and again. We might have seen this level of freedom after 15-20 years, but it would have been gained. But, dissent was unacceptable and the channel with the highest ratings remained shut down for more than 70 days, as the general could not have tolerated the voice of a free media that was roaring with calls for his resignation and crying out load against his illegal acts.

The fact is that above all he has trampled our Constitution and that's the highest crime in this country. If one were to have fought 10 wars for a country and served it for more than a 1000 thousand years and then commit a murder, a judge would not give you a clean chit and acquit you for your services or your perceived patriotism; he would sentence you for your obvious crime.

 

[z9-ec]

The logic is simple : The Messiah takes credit for the good decisions for he is to be worhsipped to the point of godliness and bad decisions have to be blamed on cronies for the messiah can never be wrong.

Also, defend NRO by saying that it's sole purpose was not to save his skin and remain in power, rather it was aimed at "reconciliation".

I find it humorous when I find people preach that Gen. Musharraf considered himself as a messiah.

All I can say is, ignorance is a bliss.

Had you bothered to go through history or the current list of dictators from Mugabe of Zimbabwe to the generals in Myanmar.

Gen. Musharraf was a democrat for all I know he introduced true essence of democracy in Pakistan. Freedom of speech, freedom of movement and political empowerment of the common man. Had he been a dictator he would have never resigned.

Of course nobody is perfect. But there is GOOD and BAD. NRO, Steel Mill Corruption, Other Corrupt Privatisation, Misused Aid, Treason etc. = Bad.

As for the media argument, it is quite weak. Next you are going to tell me Musharraf gave us internet. There is something called 'technological advancement'. These led to a whole era of globalisation, something we are still undergoing today. Tomorrow, if someone hails the PPP government for bringing 3g internet, would you accept that?

Hence the only reason media flourished was because of the internet age that pretty much took off after 2000. When the media went against Musharraf, he tried to shut it up by force and we all know what happened when he declared emergency in the country for the second time.

Had you bothered to go through my previous posts you would have found the answer to your assumptions. Again, if you or anyone has any proof go file a petition in the "free" supreme court. Who is to stop you?

I could come up with a million baseless accusations against any politician in Pakistan. The fact of the matter is, the constitution says innocent until proven otherwise.


The reasons I support Gen. Musharraf are not that you mentioned. They are for the following reasons:

1- Political empowerment of the common man by the introduction of city government.

2- Rights and empowerment of women in Pakistan.

3- Employment [100+ TV channels, construction (road, skyscrapers, bridges, dams and other projects), banks, hospitals, utility stores and etc)

4- financial well being of people.

5- building an investor friendly environment resulting in huge levels of FDI. (The Centaurus, Emaar and numerous other projects)


6- Regulating financial institutions that led to stupendous growth in reserves and stock exchange.


7- GDP is an integral part of the economy. Before his tenure, GDP stood at a mere 60 billion nominal value to 170+ in 2008.

8- reduction in poverty and corruption (verified by TI)

9- introduction of rescue 1122 and motorway police.

10- defence AFDP2015 (F-16s, JF-17s, Saab Erieye, German T-214, F-22P, K-8s, FN-2000, SSW)

11- Gawadar seaport.


I could go on and on. His numerous contributions for the betterment of the people and country are clearly there for everyone to see. Unlike, a few who are blinded by the presumptious and sensational media.

Dr Farrukh Saleem who has quite a few dictatorship apologist leanings.

The four points Farrukh Saleem raise, I'll compare with the time of the Absconder Commando:-

1. Musharraf trampled the Constitution for it bears no regard in the eyes of most of our Khaki lords and as our supreme leader Zia would say it is "nothing more than a piece of paper".

The steps that you deem to be unconstitutional were infact validated by the PCO judge currently known as CJP.

 

[SSGPA1]

Of course nobody is perfect. But there is GOOD and BAD. NRO, Steel Mill Corruption, Other Corrupt Privatisation, Misused Aid, Treason etc. = Bad.

All of that is true for all political heads in Pakistan. People even tak about the misuse of funds by Imran Khan in the SKM hospital but I am least concerned with IK's corruption (if any) because he achieved a great hospital for Pakistan.

Same with Gen. Musharraf, I look at the Gawader port, completion of Ghazi Barotha, JF-17, advanced guided misisile system and freedom to media.

Far more good than bad.

As for the media argument, it is quite weak. Next you are going to tell me Musharraf gave us internet. There is something called 'technological advancement'. These led to a whole era of globalisation, something we are still undergoing today. Tomorrow, if someone hails the PPP government for bringing 3g internet, would you accept that?

Which world do you live in? Technology advanceemnt was one thing and giving licences to use that tech is another thing. Internat age didn't take off after 2000, as it took off from 1990. I have email accounts since 1993 and Dawn used to have an online edition since early 1990s.

None of the PPPP and the NS govts were willing to issue licences to investors because they were afraid of criticism.

If you can't accept facts than just simply don't counter them.