Musharraf blames captured troops - 3 Excecuted, 30 released

[fatman17]

mastan khan - i think we are both saying the same things but in different ways - i agree the LT-Col totally failed in this incident- and this is the main reason Musharraf has come out and blamed the officer directly openly (never happened before). this is diraliction of duty. if he survives he will be court martialed.
now remember a indian Brig. Singh also failed under such conditions in the kargil conflict and was stripped of his command. now it dosnt mean all indian officers are of the same caliber. failures will occur and when they r high profiled like this incident it does shock us.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

The Indian Brig did not fail in a similar situation, is what is my personal opinion. That was on the strategic plane and this is on the tactical and grassroot plane. If the grassroot fails, then everything fails.

But that is not the issue.

If you read the 'The NEWS" report I posted, it is an extraordinary situation where the officers were caught offguard and then they surrendered lest they lost their lives since the weapon was put at the head of the Lt Col!

But whether the story is true can only be ascertained by the military inquiry!

 

[MastanKhan]

Fatman,

Sir, you are absolutely corrrect. I am pretty sure the col is regretting that moment---the moment when he let his guard down and walked into the trap head first. On a good day, it won't happen to any officer incharge---but on a bad day the less prepared officer could succumb in that moment of madness due to many reasons. For that you need constant training and understanding of your shortcomings and moments of weakness.

I am in the retail sales business since the last 18 years here in the U S. I have worked as a salesperson, a closer, a finance manager, a sales manager, a special finance manager. When I started in the business, I went through basic sales training---over the period of years I have attended quite a few sales seminars and training sessions---even at managerial level I attended the basic sales training seminars---why---because the basic sales training is the most important factor of the training. It is the foundation that my carreer is built upon. Even though I have made many a mistakes, the nice thing about my job is that I can go back, analyze my mistake and correct it the next time.

But in this death defying circus that we are finding ourselves in right now, we have to learn to think on our feet very very fast and make the right decision the first time, everytime-----look at LAPD or any other police dept in the U S of A----look at their arrest videos-----whomsoever they arrest---first and foremost----they neutralize the threat of aggression by hand-cuffing that person behind their backs----man--woman---grandmother----grandfather or a young child. Does not make any difference once they smell any wrong doing. Why they do it---is for their for their personal safety and for the safety of the person hand cuffed as well.

Now, you would know better---how does pak army approach these 21 st century issues. How are the officers trained to handle these situations when the aggressor is your own brethren?

 

[Awesome]

You speak utter bull, why was there never a problem before in our history where tribal areas rose against the federal goverment?

Because the old governments allowed common tribal people to keep AK-47s, grenades, bazookas and SAMs.

A LAWFUL government would never allow common citizens to keep that. When people tried to do that in Islamabad's Lal Masjid we did the same to them.

Why was there no killing of soldiers before?

Soldiers weren't there before.

why were people in harmony then and not now?

Janaab the entire world who had knowledge about the Taliban and our madrassas had already started being horrified by the things the Taliban were doing in there. What harmony are you talking about? The entire world was going one way and the Taliban were banning television, forcing people to grow big beards, hitting women. Pakistanis have a word for this, its not "Awaara", it's "Jahiliyat".

I tell you why because before the goverment didint push its dictatorship law against fata, now it has started to do that and this has caused problems.

True the previous governments were too scared to do anything. But then what did Taliban do? It allowed Osama Bin Laden to settle down and orchestrated 9/11 and brought the war into Pakistan.

Arms in fata is part of the culture rememebr guns dont kill people kill people.

That IS a very dark culture if you ask me and it has no place in the world's societies. Seriously go ANYWHERE in the world and they would either laugh at you or put you in jail if you give guns to little children for fun.

Guns do kill people, especially if you hand it over to criminals and little children. It's just irresponsible and stupid.

There is a revelution starting fata and hopefully it will spread in to rest of sarhad and people will awake to the fact the biggest enemey we have is not disease or hunger but the military and federal goverment.

Look you've already seen the air bombings. I'm against that. But if Taliban continuously gets support our generals will have no problem to sit in Islamabad and keep launching rockets one after the other.

Fine it would be horrible, but its justifiable since either you keep Taliban and they kill us or we kill everybody who might kill or assist in killing us. It's sort of self-defence.

Majority of pushtton people in fata or outside it reject terrorism and extremism, because we dont believe in that, we value everyones life and beliefs and culture, but the pak military has made fata a scapegoat for its own evil deeds.

I have no doubt about that. If you reject it and we reject it, then we have something in common. Why don't we start killing people who don't reject it?

 

[su-47]

Wilco who believes Bhin Bhin CEEE

BBC can only Bug arround by churnning words.

Let me free i will post afeter sometime argumentatively as im at office.

So which news agency would you say is best?

 

[EagleEyes]

News agencies no longer counts, only the authors count.

 

[fatman17]

mastan khan - we can continue this argument but it will not take us anywhere bcuz we are on the same side.
PA needs to be trained as a counter-insurgency force (CIF). i left the PA a long time ago but have remained in touch with my batch-mates. their feedback is that they dont get trained in these concepts (except for SSG). now the GHQ has decided to create a CIF within the army. it will take some time, meanwhile we have to do the best with what we have. by the way this is one of the top agenda points of the new army chief.

 

[Awaaz]

Tribal Areas are part of sarhad that joined pakistan on a condition that fata will independent of pakistani law. However fata will be part of soverign pakistan, whose residents will be pakistani nationals. Tribal areas do not want taliban to come and enforce their ideology, some tribal elemnts do but vast majority dont.

This perception and propaganda machine of the pakistan military has basically made the tribes of fata unpatriotic and militants, yes there are some elemnts but not everyone feels like that. With america putting pressure on pakistan to rid itself of taliban and alqaeda. Pakistan in return capturing and killing its own citizens to please the usa and show that pakistan is doing its bit. Wethere those killed or captured were guilty or not is necessary.

Fata militants who have killed soldiers and have blown army posts, are we really sure they are from fata?. i mean if someone from across the border came over he can blend in because language and culture is the same.

Why have most pakistanis become prejudice towards their own fellow country men, pakistani society has always portraied patahns as war mongering, unforgiving, of criminal nature.

If you want pakistani society to progress holding different cultres, values and language then you need to educate people to respect each others ways. More interaction between the different regions.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Tribal Areas are part of sarhad that joined pakistan on a condition that fata will independent of pakistani law. However fata will be part of soverign pakistan, whose residents will be pakistani nationals. Tribal areas do not want taliban to come and enforce their ideology, some tribal elemnts do but vast majority dont.

This perception and propaganda machine of the pakistan military has basically made the tribes of fata unpatriotic and militants, yes there are some elemnts but not everyone feels like that. With america putting pressure on pakistan to rid itself of taliban and alqaeda. Pakistan in return capturing and killing its own citizens to please the usa and show that pakistan is doing its bit. Wethere those killed or captured were guilty or not is necessary.

Fata militants who have killed soldiers and have blown army posts, are we really sure they are from fata?. i mean if someone from across the border came over he can blend in because language and culture is the same.

Why have most pakistanis become prejudice towards their own fellow country men, pakistani society has always portraied patahns as war mongering, unforgiving, of criminal nature.

If you want pakistani society to progress holding different cultres, values and language then you need to educate people to respect each others ways. More interaction between the different regions.

Awaaz,

Your Heart rules where you mind should be supreme!

While what you state is correct, but the world and the country has to move on!

Musharraf is keeping with the times. Pakistan was nearly branded as a 'rogue state' and it was nearly bankrupt! US was the salvation with its money as also ensuring Pakistan is acceptable as a responsible nation of the world. Therefore, he had to hitch onto the US bandwagon.

Would it be better to have the world against Pakistan and with an economy that could not support governance and people hungry and angry?

You think it over as if you were doing the task as the President of Pakistan. And if you have a better answer, we surely would love to learn of it!

Can the Taliban, which is an international pariah, feed and clothe Pakistan? True, it can give religious solace. But can religion feed and clothe?