Mullah Omar ready to end al-Qaida ties

[Desert Fox]

No where has it been written that Democracy is haram.

Second of all, humanity is made in a way where it will NEVER accept an imposed leader. If I don't get to choose who my leader is, I will have problems with it.

And don't get me started on the farce of Islamic finance...

So you want Sood and Ribba? You want usury and interest?

I hope you know that the prophet (pbuh) said that Allah and his prophet will be at war with the one who deals in Ribbah!

 

[waraich66]

Fundemantalist, If you care about muslims, end your friendship with china who is tourturing muslims and denying their every right. the truth is that your type of attitude is a major cause of muslims suffering in afghanistan(and in pakistan), i dont know if you do it deliberately or not.

Remember one thing there is no friendship between countries , their friendship always based on mutual intrest (give and take) but the case of muslim ummah is diferent , they are just like brothers who can sacrifice their every thing for each other because they wanted Raza e illahi.

Please elaborate how our attitude is wrong causing suffering of muslims in Pakistan and Afghanistan?

You could not blame majority but definately Musharaf regime was responsible for present mess in both countries.

 

[Ahmad]

Remember one thing there is no friendship between countries , their friendship always based on mutual intrest (give and take) but the case of muslim ummah is diferent , they are just like brothers who can sacrifice their every thing for each other.

Please elaborate how our attitude is wrong causing suffering of muslims in Pakistan and Afghanistan?

You could not blame majority but definately Musharaf regime was responsible for present mess in both countries.

look you always talk about muslims, jihad etc. but i havent seen you commenting about the atrocities of the chineese against the muslims of china, why is that?

give me a break, and why did i blame pakistani people for the mess? pakistani public is as victim as we are, the level of suffering might very different, but nobody can deny that they are suffering too.

 

[Desert Fox]

Democracy is the political framework of the Capitalist thought, i.e. the ruling system that the Capitalist states and their like implement.Democracy, for those who embrace it, means that people rule themselves by themselves with the systems that they choose. Oftentimes, Capitalists refer to their system as "The Democratic System", but such a connotation is incorrect for more than one reason Democracy was not innovated by the Capitalists but had been preceded by the Greeks. Moreover, they were not the only ones who implemented it; the Marxist-Socialists claimed that they were democrats and they consistently pretended that they implemented democracy.

The most important element of democracy is that it makes the human being and not the Creator as the legislator, which is logical for those who call for the detachment of religion from life because this detachment means to transfer the right to legislate from the Creator to the human being. The Capitalists, in this issue did not discuss whether the Creator has obliged man to follow a certain law and implement it in his life, nor did they even examine this issue at all, rather they appointed man as the legislator without any discussion.

For Muslims to adopt democracy means to disbelieve in all - may Allah _ forbid - the decisive and conclusive Evidences,among which are many Qur'anic verses which oblige them to follow the law of Allah _ and to reject any other law. Moreover, these erses consider any one of them who does not follow or mplement the law of Allah _ as either a Kaafir, a Zalim, or a Fasiq,


"And those who do not rule by whatever Allah has revealed are non-believers (Kaafiroon)." [TMQ AL-Ma'idah: 44]


"And those who do not rule by whatever Allah has revealed are oppressors (zalimoon)." [TMQ AL-Ma'idah: 45]


"And those who do not rule by whatever Allah has revealed are transgressors (fasiqoon)." [TMQ AL-Ma'idah: 47]


Thus, whoever does not rule by whatever Allah _ has revealed, denying Allah _'s right to legislate, as is the case with those who believe in democracy, is a Kaafir according to the explicit words of the Qur'an, because by doing so he is rejecting those decisive verses,and denying a conclusive text makes a person a Kaafir as the Muslim Fuqaha' agreed unanimously.

The Kaafiroon and their agents who rule the Muslim countries, as well as all those who call for democracy who are counted from among the Muslims, whether they are individuals or movements, realise that the basis for democracy is the rejection of the law of Allah _ and putting man in the place of the Creator. For this reason, they do not present democracy from this perspective, but instead claim that democracy means people ruling themselves by themselves, with equality and justice prevailing among the people, and the accountability of the ruler guaranteed.Although democracy explicitly implies the rejection of the laws of Allah and following the law of His _ creation, the advocates of democracy intentionally avoid addressing the issue of rejecting the law of Allah.


The remaining claims of democracy have no actual reality, the claim that people rule themselves by themselves is a major fallacy. In all Capitalist Democratic societies, people do not rule themselves by themselves, because this is a fanciful idea. In reality, people are ruled by a certain group of influential people, such as the prominent Capitalists in the United States and the aristocrats in England, which are two of the most deeply-rooted Capitalist Democratic countries. These influential groups in the Capitalist countries hold the necessary means to bring whoever they want into the government and legislative assemblies (parliaments) so that the laws which are passed and those charged with their implementation would be serving their interests.


Regarding what is claimed about equality, justice,and accountability of the rulers, these are all theoretical, without any compatibility with reality. It is enough for one to look to America, the leader of the democratic world, to find that equality, justice, and accountability are all selective, enjoyed and practiced by those who have a particular colour, religion, race, or financial wealth.The suffering faced by the blacks, Indians, those of Latin and Asian origins, those who are not Protestant, and those who are not from Western European backgrounds is evidence enough that what is claimed of democracy is - despite some exceptional cases - merely theory.Consequently, it is not allowed for a Muslim to accept democracy, because it is Kufr and gives man what is entitled exclusively for the Creator. It is obligatory upon every Muslim to reject it and to challenge all those who propagate it.

Bro, i fear you might get banned because you stood up for Allah's cause, for Islam's cause!

 

[TechLahore]

look you always talk about muslims, jihad etc. but i havent seen you commenting about the atrocities of the chineese against the muslims of china, why is that?

give me a break, and why did i blame pakistani people for the mess? pakistani public is as victim as we are, the level of suffering might very different, but nobody can deny that they are suffering too.

Because the Chinese are not committing atrocities against muslims. The living conditions of muslims in China are better than in most muslim countries. Please just look at the images of cities in Xinjiang to get a sense for the infrastructure and opportunities available to them.

The Chinese are no more committing atrocities against muslims, than the late King Hussein was committing such atrocities when he quelled the famous riots against the Government of Jordan (with Pakistani assistance, mind you). The so-called leader of the Uyghur muslims is sitting in the US and receiving funds to conduct operations in China. You don't think geopolitics has any role in the recent events in China?

To those who would attempt to drive a wedge here, please consider that one would have to be a retarded ostrich with its head buried in the sand and at least blind in one eye to not see the forest for the trees here... let's not forget, China is friendly to every single muslim country in the world. There is hardly an OIC member country that doesn't have good, productive relations with China. When we see Rebia Kadeer run an anti-China movement with assistance from foreign powers, we know better than to call it Chinese 'atrocities against muslims'

 

[Desert Fox]

Because the Chinese are not committing atrocities against muslims. The living conditions of muslims in China are better than in most muslim countries. Please just look at the images of cities in Xinjiang to get a sense for the infrastructure and opportunities available to them.

The Chinese are no more committing atrocities against muslims, than the late King Hussein was committing such atrocities when he quelled the famous riots against the Government of Jordan (with Pakistani assistance, mind you). The so-called leader of the Uyghur muslims is sitting in the US and receiving funds to conduct operations in China. You don't think geopolitics has any role in the recent events in China?

To those who would attempt to drive a wedge here, please consider that one would have to be a retarded ostrich with its head buried in the sand and at least blind in one eye to not see the forest for the trees here... let's not forget, China is friendly to every single muslim country in the world. There is hardly an OIC member country that doesn't have good, productive relations with China. When we see Rebia Kadeer run an anti-China movement with assistance from foreign powers, we know better than to call it Chinese 'atrocities against muslims'

Damn, you always get them good!

 

[waraich66]

Your definition of quality and mine may differ completely. From the early history of Islam itself, you will see very clearly that the debate regarding the succession of the Prophet would not have been possible were it not for these differences in qualitative judgement. Today everyone would agree to one version of the story and there would be differences of opinion on this succession. But it is not so.

The most dangerous society is one where one group of people impose their definition of "quality" on others... God gave us free will as *the* distinguishing trait which made us the highest among His creation. We are free to exercise that God-given gift without myopic illiterates standing in our way.

I am not imposing my will , but tried to explain my point of view with few Ayats as reference.

Any one whose understanding is conflicting with Quran and Hadees is wrong, very simple.

There is limitation of our free will that we could not cross certain limits defined by Islam

I love Iqbal. But I must remind you that while you are liberally quoting him in support of your Islam-related arguments, you must also account for the fact that Iqbal himself did not follow many aspects of Islam... for example, he drank. And he did a lot of other things too, which old inhabitants of Lahore's inner city will gladly detail for you. See, I am a firm believer in the Quranic verse, "La ikraha fiddeen". Iqbal was free to drink in the same way as you are free to not drink. While God may or may not like a man's individual actions, he will be judged on the entirety of his conduct. I am no one to sit in judgement over him. Until a man's action harm society and start to interfere with the divinely ordained rights of other human beings, you cannot force anything down anyone's throat.

Life of Iqbal has two phases , when he wrote Sikwa many Ulimah gave fatwa of Kufar against him then he wrote jawabe Sikwa ,Zarbe Kaleem Bale Jabrail then same ulima Haq named him Asaq e Rasool.

The argument you make re quality goes to the heart of this, i.e. a minority of men (not Prophets - just ordinary men) sitting in judgement and deciding the fate of the majority. If the majority must perish, let it be of their own volition.

Again you are confused here , minority or majority is not the judge , the base of judgement is the Quran and Sunnah.

But I do find it comical that this cadre of Reborn Muslims (a breed not unlike their Baptist/Church of Christ right wing brethren in the US) would use a poet like Iqbal to make their case.

Critisim for sake of just critisim will not help you to prove youself right.

Garbage by any other name, is still garbage. I am not abusing anyone. Just expressing my outrage on a set of views. A liberty I do enjoy until pigs sprout wings and fly or Mullah Umar becomes khalifah... have your pick.

As far as your judgements on my character go, two can play that game. Your misuse of Quranic verses exposes your character as that of a charlatan.

[/QUOTE]

You dont have logical reply , just using blame game nothing else

 

[Ahmad]

Because the Chinese are not committing atrocities against muslims. The living conditions of muslims in China are better than in most muslim countries. Please just look at the images of cities in Xinjiang to get a sense for the infrastructure and opportunities available to them.

The Chinese are no more committing atrocities against muslims, than the late King Hussein was committing such atrocities when he quelled the famous riots against the Government of Jordan (with Pakistani assistance, mind you). The so-called leader of the Uyghur muslims is sitting in the US and receiving funds to conduct operations in China. You don't think geopolitics has any role in the recent events in China?

To those who would attempt to drive a wedge here, please consider that one would have to be a retarded ostrich with its head buried in the sand and at least blind in one eye to not see the forest for the trees here... let's not forget, China is friendly to every single muslim country in the world. There is hardly an OIC member country that doesn't have good, productive relations with China. When we see Rebia Kadeer run an anti-China movement with assistance from foreign powers, we know better than to call it Chinese 'atrocities against muslims'

you cant turn a blind eye on what happend recently in xinyang(spelling?), collective execution of muslims, keeping them under pressure, they even surrounded mosques and didnt allow prayers to go during the uprising. at the same time the hun chineese are enjoying everyting by planned migration in the hands of chineese gov in muslim provinces.

 

[Ahmad]

Alama Iqbal and drinking? totally new to me. He was/is a great man of the sub contenant, his poems and philosophy is inspiring. driking is an allegations against him.

 

[Awesome]

I am not imposing my will , but tried to explain my point of view with few Ayats as reference.

Any one whose understanding is conflicting with Quran and Hadees is wrong, very simple.

There is limitation of our free will that we could not cross certain limits defined by Islam







Life of Iqbal has two phases , when he wrote Sikwa many Ulimah gave fatwa of Kufar against him then he wrote jawabe Sikwa ,Zarbe Kaleem Bale Jabrail then same ulima Haq named him Asaq e Rasool.




Again you are confused here , minority or majority is not the judge , the base of judgement is the Quran and Sunnah.



Critisim for sake of just critisim will not help you to prove youself right.

You dont have logical reply , just using blame game nothing else[/QUOTE]
Fundamentalist, in which language do I have to explain to you, Defence.pk is not a theological forum, we have NO ROOM for religion here. Talk things on humanly merit and don't quote divine scripture. Thats not an argument.

 

[FireFighter]

This is not a debate on whether democracy is good or not. I think you're drastically wrong about democracy and I would oppose a Khilafat system in Afghanistan.

MO is a woman hitter! Unacceptable to have women being hit on their behinds, that too on the streets!

I don't think you' have anything substantial to answer my concerns other than your one-liners, i take it you're not interested in a healthy debate haha

Regarding MO being a woman hitter, I'd like you to provide a reference to back this up. Until then, you're free to think as you like, but at the end of the day it all boils down to where you obtain information and how credible it is about MO.

I find it strange and rather ironic that our people would rather take the western press and its subsidiaries as divine gospel on MO whilst totally disregard the opinions of our Army officiers, ulema and politicians who were involved in training and dealing with them for decades.

I love Iqbal. But I must remind you that while you are liberally quoting him in support of your Islam-related arguments, you must also account for the fact that Iqbal himself did not follow many aspects of Islam... for example, he drank. And he did a lot of other things too, which old inhabitants of Lahore's inner city will gladly detail for you. See, I am a firm believer in the Quranic verse, "La ikraha fiddeen". Iqbal was free to drink in the same way as you are free to not drink. While God may or may not like a man's individual actions, he will be judged on the entirety of his conduct. I am no one to sit in judgement over him. Until a man's action harm society and start to interfere with the divinely ordained rights of other human beings, you cannot force anything down anyone's throat.

You love Iqbal yet you show no remorse in publicly displaying his laundry with so much conviction (whether his misdeeds are true or not, very very questionable). This is what I call Hypocrisy at best.

Considering no human being is perfect, would a loyal son ever do that to his father and still claim to love him? Of course not. Iqbal being a founding father of our nation, you have got to give him a little more respect that he so deserves.


He has done far more work for Islam and helped in the creation of a Muslim nation than your entire existence and your family's for that matter. Your hypocracy is rather appalling, you love him when he supports your argument yet you expose his character flaws when he doesn't favour your argument.


And I see you're totally distorting the meaning of the Quranic verse "La ikra fi'deen", which refers to no compulsion in religion, the verse was revealed in relation to the kuffar of Mecca not to be forced to converted to Islam but given a choice, the verse was not revealed to provide some muslims an opportunity to commit crimes in their private lives. This is another hypocritical stance of yours.

Very shameful indeed.


Yet here you choose this verse so liberally and selectively to justify drinking of wine of Muslims, which is in fact a hudud offense in Shariah, and punishable act according to your Constitution.

You're conjuring up liberal democratic values with traditional Islam to justify your argument coupled with a barrage of personal attacks and ridicule, which exposes your weaknesses in argument and debating skills.

Once again, very sad indeed. Your argument lacks both character and content. Don't misquote the Quran to win a petty net debate.

 

[Awesome]

Its just sad

You don't know anything about Taliban and your judging them already? And if Mullah Omar went "rogue" then how come he apposes TTP's war against Pakistan?

go to this link and you'll get the answer to all your question:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/general-images-multimedia/43309-interview-taliban.html

Why is a part of Afghan Taliban IN Pakistan? Its Sad for Pakistanis! I know one thing, you bring Mullah Omar and women would be forced to wear burkhas and would be hit on their behinds on the streets.

By the order of your so called Khalifa This is all he is good for.

 

[Awesome]

So you want Sood and Ribba? You want usury and interest?

I hope you know that the prophet (pbuh) said that Allah and his prophet will be at war with the one who deals in Ribbah!

Yes, and don't believe that.

 

[Awesome]

Regarding MO being a woman hitter, I'd like you to provide a reference to back this up. Until then, you're free to think as you like, but at the end of the day it all boils down to where you obtain information and how credible it is about MO.

Look what is happening by the orders of Mullah Omar.

This is the reality of Mullahs, and Mullah Omar deserves to be beaten like this woman was beaten.

 

[FireFighter]

Look what is happening by the orders of Mullah Omar.

YouTube - Taliban women abuse

This is the reality of Mullahs, and Mullah Omar deserves to be beaten like this woman was beaten.

That is not an evidence. Common' Asim you're far more intelligent than that.


Unless you think that video is sufficient enough to invade countries and massacre people. Like these beatings never happened in the afghan culture before Taliban. Utter rubbish.


Women get severely beaten in Pakistan too, heck they suffer the most vicious punishment that are acid attacks, also at the hands of your authorities such as police (imran khan's sisters were publicly beaten), so do you think that is sufficient enough evidence to invade Pakistan and replace the regime? your democracy hasn't lived up to its claims, now has it?