Mukti Bahini must be given due credit for liberating Bangladesh: Gen Jacob

[notsuperstitious]

Why would a neutral country allow its airspace to foreign fighters? Captain_Planet was talking of a scenario where India stays neutral. And you're talking of one where India supports Pakistan. Indian IQ.

A Neutral country would allow overland flights that do not threaten that country. Thats an international convetion and all countries follow it. Before and After 1971 pakistan is carrying out overland flights over India. Sri Lanka was neutral and they allowed pakistani planes to refuel. Or do you think Sri Lanka supported Pakistan in fixing you pesky bengalis? IQ indeed.

 

[LaBong]

It doesn't matter what he did and how he did it, the fact is, he surrendered 50,000 troops, 15,000 paramilitary, and 20,000 supporters to save his a**. They all stayed in an Indian prison until next year, when we released them. So how was this saving?

Traitors, Bhratis, whoever it was who fought 'em, the fact remains that Pakistani Army lost to a combination of ragtag revolutionaries, and a country who were supposed to have been so weak, that supposedly 1 Pakistani soldier could have killed 10 Indian ones.

Present day Pakistani races are mainly subject races puffed up by British and so you hear over the top bravado 1 Pakistani 10 Indians or pashtuns never been conquered etc. The fact is Punjabi Muslims, majority of them peasants and landlords have never been known for their battle prowess until British taught them to hold guns.

Most of the invasion to India met their first resistance in panipath while passing unharmed to and from Punjab. Historically there was no mention of Punjabi battle power except probably some lines in akbarnama about how rebels from present day Pakistan ran way without fighting.

Even if we consider the nation of Pakistan, their record in battle field is dismal to say the least.

Almost always Punjab was ruled by either kings from north India or afghan or Persia and when it's ruled by native Punjabi it's either Hindu khatri or Sikh.

I'm not saying it's bad thing, we Bengalis also don't have much to say about our warring capability even though palas did build a large empire. However we don't go around showing our martial race medal to everyone.

 

[RazPaK]

Present day Pakistani races are mainly subject races puffed up by British and so you hear over the top bravado 1 Pakistani 10 Indians or pashtuns never been conquered etc. The fact is Punjabi Muslims, majority of them peasants and landlords have never been known for their battle prowess until British taught them to hold guns.

Most of the invasion to India met their first resistance in panipath while passing unharmed to and from Punjab. Historically there was no mention of Punjabi battle power except probably some lines in akbarnama about how rebels from present day Pakistan ran way without fighting.

Even if we consider the nation of Pakistan, their record in battle field is dismal to say the least.

Almost always Punjab was ruled by either kings from north India or afghan or Persia and when it's ruled by native Punjabi it's either Hindu khatri or Sikh.

I'm not saying it's bad thing, we Bengalis also don't have much to say about our warring capability even though palas did build a large empire. However we don't go around showing our martial race medal to everyone.

Wrong.

Read up some more on history before propagating so called "facts".

 

[Avisheik]

Indo-Pakistani Naval War of 1971 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Didn't see combat? Take a look at the infobox.

Pakistan


India:



These ships were sunk by black magic? They did see active combat on both fronts, since they damaged both Karachi and Chittagong hrabours, and sank gunboats in Bangladesh (obviously not in Karachi, at Karachi they had the big fish).

The combat were seen AFTER india declared war on pakistan. Furthermore, these engagements are not blockades by any means. These engagement were military combats, not blockades

The blockade occurred until 2nd december. After that it was full on war.

 

[LaBong]

Wrong.

Read up some more on history before propagating so called "facts".

Where exactly? Except some rajput convert most of them are jutts and gurjars. The mohajir population has more martial blood in them since many of them are the descendants of armymen settled in north India.

 

[Avisheik]

A Neutral country would allow overland flights that do not threaten that country. Thats an international convetion and all countries follow it. Before and After 1971 pakistan is carrying out overland flights over India. Sri Lanka was neutral and they allowed pakistani planes to refuel. Or do you think Sri Lanka supported Pakistan in fixing you pesky bengalis? IQ indeed.

Hmm...would you consider ammunition, guns, fighter planes etc flown to east pakistan as a threat to india, if it flew over indian land, given the scenario that India pakistan were enemies but india is neutral about what was happening in east pakistan?

 

[Kaniska]

OMG...How many times same story and same kind of logic is being repeated again and again..

 

[MadDog]

Present day Pakistani races are mainly subject races puffed up by British and so you hear over the top bravado 1 Pakistani 10 Indians or pashtuns never been conquered etc. The fact is Punjabi Muslims, majority of them peasants and landlords have never been known for their battle prowess until British taught them to hold guns.

Most of the invasion to India met their first resistance in panipath while passing unharmed to and from Punjab. Historically there was no mention of Punjabi battle power except probably some lines in akbarnama about how rebels from present day Pakistan ran way without fighting.

Even if we consider the nation of Pakistan, their record in battle field is dismal to say the least.

Almost always Punjab was ruled by either kings from north India or afghan or Persia and when it's ruled by native Punjabi it's either Hindu khatri or Sikh.

I'm not saying it's bad thing, we Bengalis also don't have much to say about our warring capability even though palas did build a large empire. However we don't go around showing our martial race medal to everyone.

@ LaBong
Lemme ask you one simple question, Who defeated Alexander at the Banks of River Indus ..it was King Porus from present day Jehlum city in Punjab, Who joined the armies of Ghaznavi to attack Central India, it were the Gakhar tribes of North Punjab (mountainous region) and present day army chief Kayani is a from them, which people joined army of Muhammad Bin Qasim in droves, even before they were muslims, to attack Rajputs of Rajistan (present state of India), it were the Jatts of Punjab.

Hopefully i don't have to explain anything about the other martial race "the Pushtuns" probably u know about them.

 

[LaBong]

Look abisheikh, I do think Bangladesh could have won without direct involvement of Indian army(not without Indian weapons though), after all yahya and tikka khan were leading PA. However it would have taken a decade and another few millions dead Bangladeshi.

More rebuttal later once I reach home.

 

[TopCat]

Look abisheikh, I do think Bangladesh could have won without direct involvement of Indian army(not without Indian weapons though), after all yahya and tikka khan were leading PA. However it would have taken a decade and another few millions dead Bangladeshi.

Not according to the serving PA soldiers in east pakistan. Most of them already knew that they gonna leave by winter. By November soldiers were not allowed to wander outside their base at night.

 

[MadDog]

It was impossible for Pakistan to win that war in East Pakistan.

1) The army was cut off from the mainland.

2) Local population was hostile, and was resisting in the form of Mukti Bahni.

3) The PAF was outnumbered by 8 squadrons to 1 by IAF on the Eastern Front.

4) And Finally Indian Army attacked, it had resupplies, was attached to its mainland, etc.

Its just like imagine if some how India is defeated in Afghanistan by Afghans with the help of Pak Army and then we start claiming see we defeated Indian Army in Afghanistan.Since Afghanistan isn't attached geographically to India. Dude stop this non sense, yes Bengalis deserve to celebrate, they had given alot of sacrifices, but Indian members here are over excited...You win a war truly if u defeat a country in its mainland, not an area where local poppulation is resisting against them...eg Allies captured France from Germany in 1944, the french were resisting but still by 1944, no one said we defeated Germany..they way u indians claim.

 

[Avisheik]

Look abisheikh, I do think Bangladesh could have won without direct involvement of Indian army(not without Indian weapons though), after all yahya and tikka khan were leading PA. However it would have taken a decade and another few millions dead Bangladeshi.

More rebuttal later once I reach home.

Again i repeat, I agree with the statement that more people would have been dead and it would have taken a longer time(but not as exaggerated as you wrote). Look at my other posts, I never disagreed with this statement

 

[notsuperstitious]

Hmm...would you consider ammunition, guns, fighter planes etc flown to east pakistan as a threat to india, if it flew over indian land, given the scenario that India pakistan were enemies but india is neutral about what was happening in east pakistan?

Of course, they were being flown before 1971, no? When India denied, only then they went to SL, no? Or were they always using SL. My knowledge here is limited, please correct me if I'm wrong. All I know is that India held it against SL when they allowed refuelling. So it was a logically new thing.

 

[MadDog]

Pakistan was using Sri Lankan route to send reinforcements before the war, civilian planes were being used, it was really costly but when the war started it all stopped.

If u calculate the distance Pak pilots flew, one could reach the other side of Africa or UK from Pakistan..it was a long long journey. 5 hours to the south over Arabian Sea, then 6-7 hours up north to Bangladesh.

 

[shiv]

My mother during her childhood used to live in cox's bazaar.. she along with her other sisters ran across the border through tripura sub-room. I know every thing what it is to know about what transpired in BD on hindus and what IA was doing across the border..

Most mukti bahini leaders' families had shifted to INdia. After they made sure their families were safe, they started their activities..
Most MB members had absolutely no training in firearms and only had patriotism and a strong sense of betrayal which were driving them for independence.

IA started camps near to the borders across all regions.. near tripura, assam, malda district etc... all MB members received training in camps here be it on firearms or guerrilla tactics and huge amount of money was pumped in by India to make available proper suits for them to survive the tropical jungles of BD.

Most MB groups had few IA members as well to co-ordinate their attacks and keep contact with other troops near by etc....
In other words, IA members brought professionalism in operations etc but without doubt the MB members were really brave and were first to intercept the PA soldiers..

IA also didn't want to lead the attacks fearing diplomatic condemnation and made sure that the entire struggle had a BD face to it which was actually the truth.

But what should not be over looked was IA had to come into the forefront one way or the other. Seriously, u guys think, an army general like Niazi would have surrendered to an unprofessional force (MB) ? Never !!

Couple of factors like indiscriminate bombing of Dhaka by IAF + lethality of IA jawans + widespread subversion tactics by MB across BD(mainly) + the public face of the BD struggle + Geographical advantage of India vis-a-vis east pakistan + PN left without any sting ( PNS ghazi being sunk by IN ) led to the birth of BD .

IA role was also significant since a sizeable chunk of BD population ( Razakars ) were fiercely loyal to PA and never wanted independence. A final blow ( the actual war ) was needed to seal the fate of east pakistan !!