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Mujib's Search for the Fact about the Killing of Pakistan Army

A simple question.....use ur logic......If PA had killed 3 million........ tht would be like a really big number back in the day......... there families wouldnt have forgotten em right? so is there anybody on PDF whose relatives were killed or raped??? If none....... well........... wat can i say........Logic speaks for itself.

3 million is a huge number and cant be believed knowing that there weren't so many PA battalions there in East Pakistan.

The question should be about the treachery of Mujib and the close comrades he had. They let the Indians in and colluded with a known enemy to disintegrate the country. The West Pakistan arrogance is well known. Its that brown sahib/feudal mentality that still exists and hurts us too but it does not mean we collaborate with enemy to harm our country.

Sheikh Mujib and his comrades were traitors. Whatever happened in East Pakistan was bad but its Mujib's treason that brought this situation. He let paid insurgents of enemy country in the country. Letting enemy in the ranks and killing your own brethren is more worse than killing those who kill their fellow countrymen at enemy's instigation.

When its convenient, the press portrays insurgents as freedom fighters. Bengalis were not freedom fighters. They were being used by enemy to settle score with us and we still think them as freedom fighters.

Its like saying mujahdeen of Afghanistan were freedom fighters. They were not. A bigger power used their zeal for freedom to meet its own bigger objective. If they were mujahdeen, they would not have been fighting among themselves! Similarly in Bangladesh, Bengalis themselves killed traitor Mujib. Its simple logic. The real freedom fighters dont die a death like this.

I dont at all overlook Bhutto's attitude and as I said this feudal, selfish attitude is very much present in today's Pakistan too. So should we destroy the country or destroy this mindset?
 
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Who exactly decided that ?

Urdu was understood even in Bengal at that time...even now almost all Bangladeshis on this forum can understand & converse in Urdu more or less. And so if a Bengali is going to put forth his language to be considered for the language of us all, then I'd want my native Punjabi to be given the same consideration, a Pashtun would want his & so on & so forth for the others. Therefore no other language made sense....not even in the least bit.

@ No ! I disagree with you regarding this point. Urdu was not understood in those days in Bengal. We learn urdu while staying with Pakistan for 25 years and staying with Biharis. Moreso, in those days people had to study one urdu subject as extra. People used to see urdu movies. In the offices and industries most of them were urdu speaking. There wee many people like me who were forced to read/write urdu. And, now we have learnt both Urdu and Hindi by enjoying Hindi movies. Even by son of 3/4 years understands HINDI by seesing "Dorimon"(is a Hindi dubbing cartoon movie). On that day suddenly in the market, my son said, "Roko, roko". Presently this "Dorimon" is now banned.
 
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3 million is a huge number and cant be believed knowing that there weren't so many PA battalions there in East Pakistan.

The question should be about the treachery of Mujib and the close comrades he had. They let the Indians in and colluded with a known enemy to disintegrate the country. The West Pakistan arrogance is well known. Its that brown sahib/feudal mentality that still exists and hurts us too but it does not mean we collaborate with enemy to harm our country.

Sheikh Mujib and his comrades were traitors. Whatever happened in East Pakistan was bad but its Mujib's treason that brought this situation. He let paid insurgents of enemy country in the country. Letting enemy in the ranks and killing your own brethren is more worse than killing those who kill their fellow countrymen at enemy's instigation.

When its convenient, the press portrays insurgents as freedom fighters. Bengalis were not freedom fighters. They were being used by enemy to settle score with us and we still think them as freedom fighters.

Its like saying mujahdeen of Afghanistan were freedom fighters. They were not. A bigger power used their zeal for freedom to meet its own bigger objective. If they were mujahdeen, they would not have been fighting among themselves! Similarly in Bangladesh, Bengalis themselves killed traitor Mujib. Its simple logic. The real freedom fighters dont die a death like this.

I dont at all overlook Bhutto's attitude and as I said this feudal, selfish attitude is very much present in today's Pakistan too. So should we destroy the country or destroy this mindset?

3 million is a propaganda, 300k is more believable. Now, Traitors to Pakistan was the ones who lost in election and didn't hand power to winning party, after all the discrimination, we declared ourselves independent, therefore any help from outside was received by Bangladesh, no Pakistan so we didn't get help to break our nation, we got help to save our nation. Just saying
 
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@ No ! I disagree with you regarding this point. Urdu was not understood in those days in Bengal. We learn urdu while staying with Pakistan for 25 years and staying with Biharis. Moreso, in those days people had to study one urdu subject as extra. People used to see urdu movies. In the offices and industries most of them were urdu speaking. There wee many people like who were forced to read/write urdu. Now, now we have learnt both Urdu and Hindu by enjoying Hindu movies. Even by son of 3/4 years understands HINDU by seesing "Dorimon"(is a Hindi dubbing cartoon movie). On day that suddenly in the market, my son said, "Roko, roko". Presently this "Dorimon" is now banned.
oh,hindi dubbed cartoons in bd.didnt know that..
 
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3 million is a huge number and cant be believed knowing that there weren't so many PA battalions there in East Pakistan.

The question should be about the treachery of Mujib and the close comrades he had. They let the Indians in and colluded with a known enemy to disintegrate the country. The West Pakistan arrogance is well known. Its that brown sahib/feudal mentality that still exists and hurts us too but it does not mean we collaborate with enemy to harm our country.

Sheikh Mujib and his comrades were traitors. Whatever happened in East Pakistan was bad but its Mujib's treason that brought this situation. He let paid insurgents of enemy country in the country. Letting enemy in the ranks and killing your own brethren is more worse than killing those who kill their fellow countrymen at enemy's instigation.

When its convenient, the press portrays insurgents as freedom fighters. Bengalis were not freedom fighters. They were being used by enemy to settle score with us and we still think them as freedom fighters.

Its like saying mujahdeen of Afghanistan were freedom fighters. They were not. A bigger power used their zeal for freedom to meet its own bigger objective. If they were mujahdeen, they would not have been fighting among themselves! Similarly in Bangladesh, Bengalis themselves killed traitor Mujib. Its simple logic. The real freedom fighters dont die a death like this.

I dont at all overlook Bhutto's attitude and as I said this feudal, selfish attitude is very much present in today's Pakistan too. So should we destroy the country or destroy this mindset?

And Pakistanis didn't even notice that their military and civil communications were being tracked by the Indians? I'd say, there were probably some moles in their own organization. I think it was much more than West Pakistani leaders being feudal-minded.

If Mujib had been given power, he may not have lasted 6 months. He didn't last for long during his post-71 era anyways, slain by the very people who fought for him.

Undoubtedly, by conspiring with the Indians, the price to be paid by the new nation of Bangladesh was heavy.

Did you know that the new Bangladeshi money notes have the portrait of Mujib in every single one of them, and not that of a single prominent and historical Bangladeshi figure?

Man's a cult personality now. And that gives us a picture today.

Regardless, it's an unfinished revolution.
 
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And Pakistanis didn't even notice that their military and civil communications were being tracked by the Indians? I'd say, there were probably some moles in their own organization. I think it was much more than West Pakistani leaders being feudal-minded.

If Mujib had been given power, he may not have lasted 6 months. He didn't last for long during his post-71 era anyways, slain by the very people who fought for him.

Undoubtedly, by conspiring with the Indians, the price to be paid by the new nation of Bangladesh was heavy.

Did you know that the new Bangladeshi money notes have the portrait of Mujib in every single one of them, and not that of a single prominent and historical Bangladeshi figure?

Man's a cult personality now. And that gives us a picture today.

Regardless, it's an unfinished revolution.

trust me this the only wrong that i despise & condemn of Shaheed Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, on one hand he gave us everything to be proud of, while on the other hand his heinous role in the 71 episode stains everything & it just keeps haunting his legacy
 
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trust me this the only wrong that i despise & condemn of Shaheed Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, on one hand he gave us everything to be proud of, while on the hand his heinous role in the 71 episode stains everything & it just keeps haunting his legacy

Shaheed?? Of what!!! He was not shaheed, he was as big a traitor as Mujib. I m sorry if I have offended your god.

3 million is a propaganda, 300k is more believable. Now, Traitors to Pakistan was the ones who lost in election and didn't hand power to winning party,

I agree with you. Bhutto was a bigger traitor. He should have handed over the power to Mujib. Thats true. But we see Bhutto's feudal and petty mindset in everyday politics in Pakistan. In Pakistan, the country takes the back seat when it comes to small personal and political gains.
 
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First of all, the idea of partition was a crazy idea, it was basically designed to fail. The leaders who made this decision were short sighted. The best option for South Asian Muslims in 1947 was not to have partition. I can cite many reasons:

- secure water sources for Muslim majority areas
- avoiding the specter of the Hindu dominated "Ram Rajya", instead of this India, we would have a balance of Hindu-Muslim power within the same state in a different India with about 500 million Muslims
- avoiding the nuclear standoff between India and Pakistan, Kashmir problem, insecurity about North east states (the main reason why India helped to break Pakistan), an ever insecure Bangladesh that is surrounded on 3 sides
- a bigger more viable state that was a natural extension from earlier large unified empires and kingdoms

After partition, the two wings of Pakistan were bound to go separate ways. A 3 state solution was a better option instead of the 2 state solution, from the start, like many stated in earlier post.

As for language, instead of Urdu, English was a more practical option for a national language, while Urdu, Bengali, Punjabi, Sindhi, Pashto, Baluchi etc. could be local 2nd official languages.

As for who is to blame for 1971 casualty of 300,000 or so from all sides (Bengali, Bihari etc.), my opinion is this:

- West Pakistan unfair treatment with East Pakistan was something that could be solved with discussion, even more autonomy or outright secession could be discussed if democracy was allowed, so military rulers of Pakistan had some responsibility for not allowing democracy to take its course specially after 1970 election
- some elements within Awami League were engaged with Indian Intelligence agencies for decades to destabilize and eventual secession of East Pakistan, I think some of these people were trained and became part of Mujib Bahini years before 1971
- majority East Pakistan population changed their mind from autonomy to independence/liberation after the commencement of Operation Searchlight on the night of 25th March, 1971
- Mukti-Bahini was formed from East Pakistan armed population like Army, Police etc. initially and civilians who were later trained after declaration of independence was made on 26th March, 1971 by Zia, on behalf of Mujib, the elected leader

So if anyone could be called traitors, it could be those who conspired against their state with help of an enemy state, such as some elements within AL, but not Mukti-Bahini and people of Bangladesh who rose up in a general revolt after commencement of Operation Searchlight on the night of 25th March, 1971, formally declared independence on 26th March, 1971 and then got help from India in the process of this revolution.

For the loss of lives, I personally blame Indira Gandhi who had this idea to break Pakistan using AL elements to instigate a civil war with their insurgents engaged in clandestine killings prior to Operation Searchlight, and West Pakistan civil and military leaders who swallowed the Indian bait, hook, line and sinker, commenced Operation Searchlight and sparked a mass revolt and the war of liberation for Bangladesh. Her main motivations were:

- to break and weaken a unified Pakistan which was a threat for India
- secure North East states from ISI-Chinese intelligence supported insurgency which could possibly result in the independence of this area if Bangladesh was not created in time
 
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First of all, the idea of partition was a crazy idea, it was basically designed to fail. The leaders who made this decision were short sighted. The best option for South Asian Muslims in 1947 was not to have partition. I can cite many reasons:

- secure water sources for Muslim majority areas
- avoiding the specter of the Hindu dominated "Ram Rajya", instead of this India, we would have a balance of Hindu-Muslim power within the same state in a different India with about 500 million Muslims
- avoiding the nuclear standoff between India and Pakistan, Kashmir problem, insecurity about North east states (the main reason why India helped to break Pakistan), an ever insecure Bangladesh that is surrounded on 3 sides
- a bigger more viable state that was a natural extension from earlier large unified empires and kingdoms

After partition, the two wings of Pakistan were bound to go separate ways. A 3 state solution was a better option instead of the 2 state solution, from the start, like many stated in earlier post.

As for language, instead of Urdu, English was a more practical option for a national language, while Urdu, Bengali, Punjabi, Sindhi, Pashto, Baluchi etc. could be local 2nd official languages.

As for who is to blame for 1971 casualty of 300,000 or so from all sides (Bengali, Bihari etc.), my opinion is this:

- West Pakistan unfair treatment with East Pakistan was something that could be solved with discussion, even more autonomy or outright secession could be discussed if democracy was allowed, so military rulers of Pakistan had some responsibility for not allowing democracy to take its course specially after 1970 election
- some elements within Awami League were engaged with Indian Intelligence agencies for decades to destabilize and eventual secession of East Pakistan, I think some of these people were trained and became part of Mujib Bahini years before 1971
- majority East Pakistan population changed their mind from autonomy to independence/liberation after the commencement of Operation Searchlight on the night of 25th March, 1971
- Mukti-Bahini was formed from East Pakistan armed population like Army, Police etc. initially and civilians who were later trained after declaration of independence was made on 26th March, 1971 by Zia, on behalf of Mujib, the elected leader

So if anyone could be called traitors, it could be those who conspired against their state with help of an enemy state, such as some elements within AL, but not Mukti-Bahini and people of Bangladesh who rose up in a general revolt after commencement of Operation Searchlight on night of 25th March, 1971, formally declared independence on 26th March, 1971 and then got help from India in the process of this revolution.

For the loss of lives, I personally blame Indira Gandhi who had this idea to break Pakistan using AL elements to instigate a civil war with their insurgents engaged in clandestine killings prior to Operation Searchlight, and West Pakistan civil and military leaders who swallowed the Indian bait, hook, line and sinker, commenced Operation Searchlight and sparked a mass revolt and the war of liberation for Bangladesh. Her main motivations were:

- to break and weaken a unified Pakistan which was a threat for India
- secure North East states from ISI-Chinese intelligence supported insurgency which could possibly result in the independence of this area if Bangladesh was not created in time

Mia bhai,to first part of your thread. Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo..........
 
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Mia bhai,to first part of your thread. Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo..........

Partition is a done deal and it cannot be undone, because Ram Rajya do not want more Muslims in their Ram Rajya. It is just my opinion and assessment of history considering the geopolitical realities of those times in 1947.

For both Bangladesh and Pakistan, the way forward is to seek alliances with other neighbor and regional nations. For Pakistan, these nations are China and nations in Eurasia+ region and for Bangladesh it is China and ASEAN+:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/180767-geopolitics-eurasia-region.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/180755-geopolitics-asean-region.html

Any regional set up that has India in it such as SAARC, BIMSTEC etc., should be avoided at all cost by Bangladesh.
 
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simple and innocent question:

where's the condemnation against excesses and genocide waged against pro-Pakistan elements? What about the ethnic Biharis (many who were forced to flee and settle in Mainland Pakistan)
 
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simple and innocent question:

where's the condemnation against excesses and genocide waged against pro-Pakistan elements? What about the ethnic Biharis (many who were forced to flee and settle in Mainland Pakistan)

I personally condemn all war crimes, including killing of non-combatant Bihari's. A real fair war crimes trial sponsored by UN should investigate war crimes from all sides. That would bring closure to this chapter for both Bangladesh and Pakistan and allow both countries to move forward in their future relationship and take away a perpetual political capital from India and Indian agents operating in Bangladesh politics who use this emotional issue often to divide Bangladesh electorate.
 
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I personally condemn all war crimes, including killing of non-combatant Bihari's. A real fair war crimes trial sponsored by UN should investigate war crimes from all sides. That would bring closure to this chapter for both Bangladesh and Pakistan and allow both countries to move forward in their future relationship and take away a perpetual political capital from India and Indian agents operating in Bangladesh politics who use this emotional issue often to divide Bangladesh electorate.

what happened is indeed extremely regrettable; but we (myself included) have to be mature and stop bogging ourselves down by history b/c if we do that then it's harder to move forward

majority of Pakistanis wish best of luck to Bangladesh, and it's welcome to see BD economy grow and the country develop great minds (e.g. Nobell prize winner Mohammad Yunus & Grameen Bank)
 
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