Mughal influence in India and Indian history

[anonymus]

In 1857 revolt, most of the sepoys who revolved were Muslims ........ did you not know that ? That is why the Sikh's were so strongly against them.

THAT is why Bahadur Shah Zafar was appointed as a nominal head. The same as what the Peshwa's did.

Why not learn some history before sprouting nonsense again and again ?

Or the most obvious explanation would be that Meerut was just a day's walk away from Delhi, so they marched to Delhi. Similarly , sepoys at Kanpur seeked Nana Sahib, at Jhansi Rani Laxmibai, Hazrat mahal at Lucknow.

And Zafar was declared emprorer only by Meerut rebels. He was never accepted as Emperor of India by any other partisan. If 1857 war would had succeeded, his claim would have been challenged by, pretty much everyone whether they have rebelled or not, And frankly, muslims in 1857 were not in a position to even fight Hindus, if it would have come to that. Though such a situation never came to pass.

Aurangzeb detested hindus and ergo the Rajputs, its no hidden secret. His son Akbar wanted to challenge the throne with the help of few Rajput kings, and that's when Aurangzeb (the stubborn old man with love for his throne) came up with this brilliant idea of sending a letter to his son which would, ostensibly, fall into the hands of Rajput and cause dissensions.
These 're times when I wished I had taken a keen interest in history.
@SarthakGanguly @anonymus I heard Rajputs used to take high doses of opium before going to a war. True???
I mean I know its true, but wasnt that perilous?

I too have read that Rajputs used opium as they believed that it controls bleeding and makes a person fearless. Though these sources have never been highly credible.Though one should not be surprised if they did as use of drugs among warrior class was/is pretty common.

Greeks used nepthenes, and even today Pilots are drugged, usually with modafinil, and Bomber pilot used amphetamines.

or alternatively islam is the fastest growing faith in the world with adherents across the world in all continents

Pigs,Dogs, and maggots also multiply very fast. Doesn't do them any good though.

 

[Levina]

I too have read that Rajputs used opium as they believed that it controls bleeding and makes a person fearless. Though these sources have never been highly credible.Though one should not be surprised if they did as use of drugs among warrior class was/is pretty common.

Greeks used nepthenes, and even today Pilots are drugged, usually with modafinil, and Bomber pilot used amphetamines.
.

why I wanted to know about the use opium among Rajputs was because I thought it was habit that was passed on to them by Mughals.

 

[anonymus]

why I wanted to know about the use opium among Rajputs was because I thought it was habit that was passed on to them by Mughals.

Could have been. Mughals were pakke Nashedi with Humayum addicted to Opium.

Though Rajputs may also have known it independently. It was regarded as medicine in pre-modern age.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

reading some passages make me think this is Mughal Kamasutra
the Indian sub-continent does has its effects

 

[Indian Patriot]

All were saved by the British

You are right for once, british saved the skinny hindus. LOL!!!

Do you understand the SIGNIFICANCE of Hindu and Sikh resistance

The Sikhs offered resistance, what Hindu resistance are you talking about? ROFLOL!!!

Lay off the drugs man, your fictional history makes me laugh. You guys resisted so hard that the turks, afghans and mughals ruled you for a 1000 years. Hats off to such resistance.

they attacked 17 times,,,not so short ehh,,,ending with the battle of itakhuli,,,in which they lost territory n will to fight.

I think I remember now. How far did Mir Jumla proceed?

 

[Makaramarma]

Or the most obvious explanation would be that Meerut was just a day's walk away from Delhi, so they marched to Delhi. Similarly , sepoys at Kanpur seeked Nana Sahib, at Jhansi Rani Laxmibai, Hazrat mahal at Lucknow.

And Zafar was declared emprorer only by Meerut rebels. He was never accepted as Emperor of India by any other partisan. If 1857 war would had succeeded, his claim would have been challenged by, pretty much everyone whether they have rebelled or not, And frankly, muslims in 1857 were not in a position to even fight Hindus, if it would have come to that. Though such a situation never came to pass.

I made that comment only to bait him ...... but Truth is never that simple and has many layers to it.

1. The rebellion was primary by the Bengal Native Infantry which consisted primarily of Brahmins and Rajputs and other Higher Castes. They has a lesser number of muslims too.
2. There was fear that the British were trying to convert everybody into Christianity. This was true.
3. There was a pay cut in the Bengal Native infantry and everybody was unhappy with the new pay structure.
4. Well known issue about beef and pig fat used to lubricate the cartilages. Combined with Christian missionaries.

The Initial 85 Rebels in Meerut where Hindus, after they were arrested and imprisoned, they were freed by the Muslim soldiers in the Regiment. With no where else to go, they went to Delhi to seek protection.

Bahadur Zafar was ruling Delhi at that time and had his small force of 12,000 men. It was to avoide further confrontation between Hindus and Muslims that He was unwillingly made "king". This was also to ensure muslims too joined the war in large numbers.

The Muslims where already unhappy about losing power and prestige so they wanted to kill the british anyway and they did, in large numbers. Especially civilians. Which is why after the war was over, teh British killed pretty much any muslim noblemen they could lay their hand on and especially wipe out entire muslim villages.

Brahmins and "Brahminism" was also demonized by the British after 1857 so that they could no longer do damage to the British. The seculars still blame the "Brahmins" for everything, curtsey the british propaganda post 1857.

Before 1857, British loved the brahmins and the Bengal Native Infantry was the pride of the East Indian company

 

[halupridol]

I think I remember now. How far did Mir Jumla proceed?

oh,,so u remembered
mir jumla he came to the ahom capital garogaun

 

[SarthakGanguly]

You are right for once, british saved the skinny hindus. LOL!!!



The Sikhs offered resistance, what Hindu resistance are you talking about? ROFLOL!!!

Lay off the drugs man, your fictional history makes me laugh. You guys resisted so hard that the turks, afghans and mughals ruled you for a 1000 years. Hats off to such resistance.

Aaaahhh. Gotcha.

 

[Indian Patriot]

why I wanted to know about the use opium among Rajputs was because I thought it was habit that was passed on to them by Mughals.

It was a kind of "high" courage. You must have seen or heard people who are drunk become "fearless". They become loud, uninhibited and for the few minutes they are intoxicated they genuinely don't care who is in front of them. They will fight anybody and everybody they have to. It's only after the alcohol wears away they realise what foolishness they had done.

The rajputs used opium for the same reason. And it is not without its merits. The intoxication makes them immune to fear and at times even pain. They may have multiple stab wounds but won't feel a thing because they are on a different planet.

Those days there was no military academy or standing army. Most of the so called armies were ordinary villagers, farmers, blacksmiths, artisans etc who were given a sword, spear, shield and sent to fight. Many have never fought before or even know how to use a weapon. In such cases how do you gather the courage to fight a charging enemy?

There were trained soldiers but very few and there was no organised institution to train them on a regular and disciplined basis. That is why the europeans found it so easy to defeat and destroy native Indian armies. You kill the general of the native army and they will flee in terror. Happened in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd battle of Panipat. Hemu was winning the battle and if he had survived another hour then history of India would have changed. He gets hit in the eye and his army runs away like cowards.In Vijayanagar vs deccani sultanate war the same thing happened with Vijayanagar. The leader falls and everyone runs away to save their lives.

The Mughals were not on the same level as europeans but they had many military hierarchies. The Europeans had sergeants, lieutenants, majors, colonels etc. If one falls the other will take his place and so forth. 5,000 trained european soldiers could massacre 50,000 strong mob of native soldiers without dicipline, training and leadership.

It is the europeans who introduced the concept of proper military training, regimental discipline and officer cadre in India. Even the maratha and Sikh militaries were organised on european lines.

oh,,so u remembered
mir jumla he came to the ahom capital garogaun

Yea. I have read about Indian history and that includes your state as well. I have read about how bravely the Kamrupa kingdoms had repelled the turkish invaders of the tughlaq dynasty and later the mughals. On the other hand I have also read about the civil war, the devastation of burmese incursion and ultimately english rule.

I thought the Ahoms had a different capital, the one that was captured by the burmese. I will have to google for it. It doesn't sound like garogaun to me.

Aaaahhh. Gotcha

Here is a cookie for you.

reading some passages make me think this is Mughal Kamasutra
the Indian sub-continent does has its effects

On a larger scale, including but not limited to Mughals, India had to pay a massive price for these foreign invasions.

Ancient India stretched from Afghanistan to bangladesh. It was a unified country - unified in the sense it had the same religion and Hindu culture. Though that did not mean it had any political alliance. Now you have Afghanistan, Pakistan, India and bangladesh.

And people still say there was no effect.

 

[halupridol]

Yea. I have read about Indian history and that includes your state as well. I have read about how bravely the Kamrupa kingdoms had repelled the turkish invaders of the tughlaq dynasty and later the mughals. On the other hand I have also read about the civil war, the devastation of burmese incursion and ultimately english rule.

I thought the Ahoms had a different capital, the one that was captured by the burmese. I will have to google for it. It doesn't sound like garogaun to me.

garhgaun,,well there were diff. capitals at diff times,,,n by civil war,,u must be talking about maomoriya rebellion,,,,,neway i am out of this thread

 

[anonymus]

I made that comment only to bait him ...... but Truth is never that simple and has many layers to it.

1. The rebellion was primary by the Bengal Native Infantry which consisted primarily of Brahmins and Rajputs and other Higher Castes. They has a lesser number of muslims too.
2. There was fear that the British were trying to convert everybody into Christianity. This was true.
3. There was a pay cut in the Bengal Native infantry and everybody was unhappy with the new pay structure.
4. Well known issue about beef and pig fat used to lubricate the cartilages. Combined with Christian missionaries.

The Initial 85 Rebels in Meerut where Hindus, after they were arrested and imprisoned, they were freed by the Muslim soldiers in the Regiment. With no where else to go, they went to Delhi to seek protection.

Bahadur Zafar was ruling Delhi at that time and had his small force of 12,000 men. It was to avoide further confrontation between Hindus and Muslims that He was unwillingly made "king". This was also to ensure muslims too joined the war in large numbers.

The Muslims where already unhappy about losing power and prestige so they wanted to kill the british anyway and they did, in large numbers. Especially civilians. Which is why after the war was over, teh British killed pretty much any muslim noblemen they could lay their hand on and especially wipe out entire muslim villages.

Brahmins and "Brahminism" was also demonized by the British after 1857 so that they could no long do damage to the British. The seculars still blame the "Brahmins" for everything, curtsey the british propaganda post 1857.

Before 1857, British loved the brahmins and the Bengal Native Infantry was the pride of the East Indian company

I was just stating the obvious, and clearing the delusion that one poster on this thread have about centrality of Mughals. He/She stated that rebels proclaimed Zafar as emperor of India and I just posted to clear that only Meerut rebels did so.

Rest of the partisans did not recognized him as their sovereign.Has 1857 revolt succeeded, there was a civil war coming with probably victory of states like that had modern British Trained armies against the rabble that Nawabs and Badshahs could muster.


Anyway I have quoted you on Prithviraj Raso thread. Did you get that notification?

And Pakistanis are getting owned in Haryana discovery thread too.

 

[Makaramarma]

Before the 1857 war, the total strength of British soldiers in India was 40,000 and the strength of the Native Army from Bengal, Madras and Bombay (Indians) was 2,80,000 men.

After 1857, Out of the 74 Regiments of the Bengal Native Infantry, 69 was Disbanded

Bengal army was reduced to 1,10,000 Indians and the British strength was increased to 80,000 Men.

14 new Regiments raised in Punjab was retained. 7 Regiments from Low Caste was raised, 4 local regiments were raised and 15 Gorkha, Sikh and Punjab regiments were retained.


Now you know why we hear stories of Gorkha and Sikh Bravery .......... you can thank the British.

I was just stating the obvious, and clearing the delusion that one poster on this thread about centrality of Mughals. He/She stated that rebels proclaimed Zafar as emperor of India and I just posted to clear that only Meerut rebels did so.

Rest of the partisans did not recognized him as their sovereign.Has 1857 revolt succeeded, there was a civil war coming with probably victory of states like that had modern British Trained armies against the rabble that Nawabs and Badshahs could muster.

Anyway I have quoted you on Prithviraj Raso thread. Did you get that notification?

And Pakistanis are getting owned in Haryana discovery thread too.

Bahadur Shah was a 82 year old Opium addict ...... He was just a figure head used to draw muslims into the war and to ensure muslims do not kill Hindus. This is what he looked liked in those days, some "king"

I will look into the Prithviraj Raso thread.

 

[anonymus]

Before the 1857 war, the total strength of British soldiers in India was 40,000 and the strength of the Native Army from Bengal, Madras and Bombay (Indians) was 2,80,000 men.

After 1857, Out of the 74 Regiments of the Bengal Native Infantry, 69 was Disbanded

Bengal army was reduced to 1,10,000 Indians and the British strength was increased to 80,000 Men.

14 new Regiments raised in Punjab was retained. 7 Regiments from Low Caste was raised, 4 local regiments were raised and 15 Gorkha, Sikh and Punjab regiments were retained.


Now you know why we hear stories of Gorkha and Sikh Bravery .......... you can thank the British.

Apart from that, Indians were completely banned from Artillery branch of army.

 

[Asian.Century]

All were slaves of Mughal Muslims for 1000 years.

 

[Mamluk]

Hemu was winning the battle and if he had survived another hour then history of India would have changed. He gets hit in the eye and his army runs away like cowards.

I find this ridiculous.

Every losing side in historical battle could say "if our King or general didn't die, didn't get hit in the eye, or the balls, ... history would be different!!"

Inability to protect a key figure like Hemu itself is a strategic failure.