MP-5

[Sargodhian_Eagle]

My gun looks like upper gun in the pic

 

[Beskar]

Kindly do not jutify buying a gun by comparing it with car accidents, is gun an essential part of life. Dont you think if we somehow managed to get rid of this virus then wont be needing this self defence.

Just compare the american society and the british society, where does the problem lies more.

That's where you're wrong. Car accidents are capable of mutilating the human body even worse than a weapon can. If two things are capable of killing, they are pretty much in the same league one way or the other.

If anything, In Pakistan, carrying a firearm is just as important as owning anything else. Aren't you aware of the situation that has led to SO many deaths in Pakistan only in the last few years?

Pakistan could use a "Basij" army of it's own. If that was the case, I don't see how ANYONE could even THINK about openly coming into our cities and terrorizing people in the middle of the day and vanishing within minutes. Take the recent attack on SL cricket team as an example.

 

[tamir]

That's where you're wrong. Car accidents are capable of mutilating the human body even worse than a weapon can. If two things are capable of killing, they are pretty much in the same league one way or the other.

Bezerk,
Vehicles were made for transporting us. Firearms were specifically made to kill. There are so many other common everyday items that can cause death or mutilation. Guns are in their own league.

I remember a time when revolvers and shot guns were a luxury. Pakistan was flooded with all sorts of weaponry after the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan ended. We have been hijacked by the "gun culture". I don't know how many innocent people in Pakistan die every year because of ariel firing. That is one of the most retarded things to do. Wasting money and endangering other lives.

More guns in Pakistan are not the solution.

 

[Keysersoze]

Bezerk,
Vehicles were made for transporting us. Firearms were specifically made to kill. There are so many other common everyday items that can cause death or mutilation. Guns are in their own league.

I remember a time when revolvers and shot guns were a luxury. Pakistan was flooded with all sorts of weaponry after the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan ended. We have been hijacked by the "gun culture". I don't know how many innocent people in Pakistan die every year because of ariel firing. That is one of the most retarded things to do. Wasting money and endangering other lives.

More guns in Pakistan are not the solution.

Wasting your time here mate ...there are a lot of "kids" on this forum who think that guns are the be all and end all...Frankly the idea that the attack on the Sri lankan bus would have been stopped by civilians with guns is frankly laughable. there would have been a few more casualties amongst civilians as the idiots would empty off their magazines.


On a side note the the upper picture shown uses a straight magazine....if it is the same on the weapon you had then it may be because of that (if you had a well built weapon that is.) the straight mags tended to cause problems.

 

[tamir]

Wasting your time here mate ...there are a lot of "kids" on this forum who think that guns are the be all and end all...Frankly the idea that the attack on the Sri lankan bus would have been stopped by civilians with guns is frankly laughable. there would have been a few more casualties amongst civilians as the idiots would empty off their magazines.


On a side on the the upper picture shown uses a straight magazine....if it is the same on the weapon you had then it may be because of that (if you had a well built weapon that is.) the straight mags tended to cause problems.

Refreshing to see someone sharing the same sentiment.

 

[Beskar]

Wasting your time here mate ...there are a lot of "kids" on this forum who think that guns are the be all and end all...Frankly the idea that the attack on the Sri lankan bus would have been stopped by civilians with guns is frankly laughable. there would have been a few more casualties amongst civilians as the idiots would empty off their magazines.


On a side note the the upper picture shown uses a straight magazine....if it is the same on the weapon you had then it may be because of that (if you had a well built weapon that is.) the straight mags tended to cause problems.

Lol! Pakistan's major cities aren't filled with village idiots. So your prediction is flawed. Who's to say it WOULDN'T have been a complete disaster? There's always two sides of every argument. And both are open for debate.

there would have been a few more casualties amongst civilians as the idiots would empty off their magazines.

That truly would've been the case if every 15 year old was carrying weapons. However, I wasn't advocating that at all. Do a search on "Basij" and you'd know what I was hinting at. I had something more "Professional" in mind but you're simply generalizing your opinions because you're convinced that I was talking about providing every common idiot with a weapon.

Tamir:

The example about cars was to get the message across which some of the people on this forum don't seem to get. "Knives" are derived from the ancient invention of sharpened blades which have been used in the past for all sorts of things. Its usage depends on the person. And they HAVE been used for killing people for centuries now. But that doesn't mean that they should be banned everywhere. It's a developing reality that MOST of the murders are now carried out by easily accessible common knives. Not guns. Getting my point now?

The supposed "Gun Culture" that you're referring to isn't something recent or a fad that might just go away. If you know our provincial history, you'd know that it's a part of our culture and has been for a LONG time. It's here to stay and what we CAN do is make the best out of it for our own protection. By making strict policies on firearm usage and licenses, there's no doubt that murders carried out by firearms would reduce and firearm usage for personal defence would increase. Our constitution and LAW has given us the right to bear firearms "Legally". And every person who qualifies to own one, SHOULD possess one for their safety.

 

[Keysersoze]

Lol! Pakistan's major cities aren't filled with village idiots. So your prediction is flawed. Who's to say it WOULDN'T have been a complete disaster? There's always two sides of every argument. And both are open for debate.



That truly would've been the case if every 15 year old was carrying weapons. However, I wasn't advocating that at all. Do a search on "Basij" and you'd know what I was hinting at. I had something more "Professional" in mind but you're simply generalizing your opinions because you're convinced that I was talking about providing every common idiot with a weapon.

Tamir:

The example about cars was to get the message across which some of the people on this forum don't seem to get. "Knives" are derived from the ancient invention of sharpened blades which have been used in the past for all sorts of uses. Its usage depends on the person. And they HAVE been used for killing people for centuries now. But that doesn't mean that they should be banned everywhere. It's a developing reality that MOST of the murders are now carried out by easily accessible common knives. Not guns. Getting my point now?

The supposed "Gun Culture" that you're referring to isn't something recent or a fad that might just go away. If you know our provincial history, you'd know that it's a part of our culture and has been for a LONG time. It's here to stay and what we CAN do is make the best out of it for our own protection.

Yes lets take a look at the numbers killed by guns being fired into the air in major population centres shall we? I still remember when during a wedding I had to stop the guys with guns from shooting as the concept of bullets coming back down somewhere hadn't occured to them. They were guys who thought they knew what they were doing.

American society shows that it doesn't really work and also that the majority of deaths are caused in accidents WITH firearms than with actual usage. It shows what happens when idiots get killing tools. (a hunter does not need a semi or fully automatic weapon )

Oh and the knife argument does not work either. Knives have other uses (other than killing) and a person with a knife is dangerous but can be overpowered before they do too much harm. However a gunman can d more damage.

As for the provincial argument that does not wash.......very few firearms in the areas I stayed in. there has been a relatively new influx of weapons. In the tribal areas of course this is slightly different.

I know guns well and know what they are all about.....I know the hunters mindset. I know a soldiers mindset, but none of the guys who spout on here about weapons fall into that category. They are what we call "fanboys" and they might have nice shiny kit but as the saying goes "All the gear.......No idea"

 

[tamir]

Bezerk,
My point was that guns are in their own category. Knives and other tools come from sharpened stone tools which were used to hunt and kill. I wasn't talk about banning guns. I carry one myself. Think about this..... would an individual or a group of hoodlums holding up a bank with knives have the same terror effect as compared to being armed with guns? There is just a very big subduing effect a gun has. So much is extorted with the presence of a firearm.

The gun culture I'm referring to is the one that has made its way into all the major cities in Pakistan.

As far as armed civilians taking a proactive stance against the Sri Lankan team attacker.... what if there was a proper Police backup?? Those civilians would have been mowed down as well. Taking a human life is easier said than done.

This is my humble opinion and you are rightly entitled to yours. All I can say is that, I've been in life threatening situations. I have first hand experience..... its not that easy.

I just don't want my sons to be exposed to all this violence. I don't know how many of my respected forum members are parents. After my sons were born, I had a completely different perspective on life. I was literally addicted to skydiving. I had to jump on weekends to get my fix. When my wife was pregnant with our twins..... I literally had no desire to jump again. Well, I have to admit every now and then the clear blue skies tempts me.

 

[Keysersoze]

Bezerk,
My point was that guns are in their own category. Knives and other tools come from sharpened stone tools which were used to hunt and kill. I wasn't talk about banning guns. I carry one myself. Think about this..... would an individual or a group of hoodlums holding up a bank with knives have the same terror effect as compared to being armed with guns? There is just a very big subduing effect a gun has. So much is extorted with the presence of a firearm.

The gun culture I'm referring to is the one that has made its way into all the major cities in Pakistan.

As far as armed civilians taking a proactive stance against the Sri Lankan team attacker.... what if there was a proper Police backup?? Those civilians would have been mowed down as well. Taking a human life is easier said than done.

This is my humble opinion and you are rightly entitled to yours. All I can say is that, I've been in life threatening situations. I have first hand experience..... its not that easy.

I just don't want my sons to be exposed to all this violence. I don't know how many of my respected forum members are parents. After my sons were born, I had a completely different perspective on life. I was literally addicted to skydiving. I had to jump on weekends to get my fix. When my wife was pregnant with our twins..... I literally had no desire to jump again. Well, I have to admit every now and then the clear blue skies tempts me.

Dude you gotta be nuts to be a skydiver.....I hated it every time I had to put on a chute.... I prefer being in a bank robbery!

 

[tamir]

Dude you gotta be nuts to be a skydiver.....I hated it every time I had to put on a chute.... I prefer being in a bank robbery!

Actual bank robber or an innocent bystander?

 

[Kharian_Beast]

Frankly the idea that the attack on the Sri lankan bus would have been stopped by civilians with guns is frankly laughable.

About just as laughable as the security provided and the lack of implementation of intelligence that has caused this and the other few dozen terrorist acts and disasters...what we are advocating is better firearms training and a professional civilian force to be issued weapons to augment the corruption ridden police forces, we don't want automatic weapons given to everyone like candy but owning a semi auto firearm with a license is their absolute God given right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basij

 

[Kharian_Beast]

Wasting your time here mate ...there are a lot of "kids" on this forum who think that guns are the be all and end all...

If you could dismount from your high horse for a minute and just understand that this is a defense related forum, things might start becoming less absolute in terms for you. Yes there are a lot of silly questions about obtaining firearms on here but they should be properly educated instead of shunned away, because then they will have learned nothing and probably still end up with a dangerous piece anyways.

 

[Keysersoze]

About just as laughable as the security provided and the lack of implementation of intelligence that has caused this and the other few dozen terrorist acts and disasters...what we are advocating is better firearms training and a professional civilian force to be issued weapons to augment the corruption ridden police forces, we don't want automatic weapons given to everyone like candy but owning a semi auto firearm with a license is their absolute God given right.

Basij - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

God given right?????would love to see the passage that advocates firearms.

Here's another idea KB, rather than create ANOTHER armed service how about spending that money rooting out corruption/better training and conditions for the services that already exist(such as the police) Frankly throwing more guns at a situation made bad already would be tantamount to pouring petrol on a fire.

MORE guns are rarely a solution as has been proven in countries such as the U.S.

 

[Keysersoze]

If you could dismount from your high horse for a minute and just understand that this is a defense related forum, things might start becoming less absolute in terms for you. Yes there are a lot of silly questions about obtaining firearms on here but they should be properly educated instead of shunned away, because then they will have learned nothing and probably still end up with a dangerous piece anyways.

Yes KB this is a defence related forum not a fanboy forum where guys come to be giddy about their new "extension". And I feel that I am asking pertinent questions of these people. Every professional I know is very wary of people who gush about obtaining weapons and act like they are toys.And there is a good reason....the are implements of killing and should NEVER be taken lightly. I for one would prefer that if they want to play with guns then they should sign up.

 

[Kharian_Beast]

Yes KB this is a defence related forum not a fanboy forum where guys come to be giddy about their new "extension". And I feel that I am asking pertinent questions of these people. Every professional I know is very wary of people who gush about obtaining weapons and act like they are toys.And there is a good reason....the are implements of killing and should NEVER be taken lightly. I for one would prefer that if they want to play with guns then they should sign up.

Then as a moderator by all means it is your duty to question. However I was just thrown off by your labeling of everyone who is somewhat enthusiastic about firearms as children, I felt it was offensive.