More than half of Americans think Iraq war ended in stalemate

[NeutralCitizen]

What is your nationality?

egyptian?

german?

american?

I'm German-Egyptian however an American Citizen, however this is not important.

 

[Don Jaguar]

If attitudes and off-the-wall understandings of reality

You mean we don't understand the reality?

Have you ever been to iraq? some of my family members visited iraq last year and we have seen what you have build there.

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I'm German-Egyptian however an American Citizen, however this is not important.

Your religion? if you don't mind.

Brother, just answer this question and my blood will stop boiling, i have never seen an egyptian like you.

 

[NeutralCitizen]

You mean we don't understand the reality?

Have you ever been to iraq? some of my family members visited iraq last year and we have seen what you have build there.

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Your religion? if you don't mind.

Brother, just answer this question and my blood will stop boiling, i have never seen an egyptian like you.

Islam ?

 

[Don Jaguar]

Islam ?

Lying.

 

[NeutralCitizen]

Lying.

You can believe what you want it does not matter to me.

 

[KS]

How else did it end ?

 

[NeutralCitizen]

How else did it end ?

Certainly Iranians have more influence, People Losing faith in the Government, Military victory however political and economic not exactly.

 

[NeutralCitizen]

Justice.
No Justice, no Peace.

America thinks it has a God given right to bully and murder who they want.
Well the problem with that is that people don't like being bullied and murdered.

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How is Pakistan a problem?
Pakistan has caught more "terrorists" then all the western countries combined

we have sacrificed 40,000 of our own people.
how many Americans have you guys scarified?
We have helped as much as we could.
It is not Pakistan fault that America decided to go the Hitler route and start murdering innocent women and children.
Thus causing more terrorism.

USA is a great country.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Have you ever been to iraq? some of my family members visited iraq last year and we have seen what you have build there.

See, that's what I mean: "you have built there". What you see in Iraq is what the Iraqis have built for themselves. We tried to give them the space and opportunity to form civil and democratic institutions. But, like you Pakistanis, they couldn't get past their deep-seated tribal hatreds and dysfunctional political views to make something of the opportunity we gave to them. The mess in Iraq, as in Afghanistan, is 80% the responsibility of Iraqis and Afghans. Sure, we Americans made mistakes. But most of our effort, after the first 3 months of warfare in both nations, was trying to give each people a chance for a civil society. We couldn't make them seize the opportunity. My point is that we Americans are stupid to think that we can help people, who have such dysfunctional cultures, fix their problems. We can't, shouldn't try, and we get zero appreciation for our effort.

 

[Developereo]

The article is self-contradictory

"After the Vietnam war, [...] Roughly half the public believed that war was an outdated way of settling international conflicts even into the 1980s, but only 32% of Americans feel that way today

followed by

seven in ten believe that U.S. military force should only be used as a last resort, and that may be the more lasting impact on public opinion of the war in Iraq."

There is no such thing as "lasting impact". Consent is manufactured as and when needed.

Going into Iraq was a stupid decision. Basically, the USA hoped to overthrow Saddam Hussein and then nurture a democratic, secular Arab society. The stupidity was to think that Arab Muslims were capable of creating a stable democracy. They clearly are not. Hence, the American people sacrificed thousands of young American lives and a trillion dollars of resources for a people who were not worthy of this sacrifice. It is always stupid to try to help a people who will not help themselves .....

PS. This is also the reason that trying to help Vietnam and Afghanistan was stupid. And, in like manner, it would be stupid for the USA to try to help Pakistan when Pakistan, is, clearly, unable to be helped.

Your post contains emotive words like "nurture" and "help". These are good for propaganda, but have no place in geopolitics. The American administration is tasked to promote American interests -- they will do so with dictators or with flowers, whatever may be appropriate in any given situation. The welfare of the foreign entities is immaterial.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Your post contains emotive words like "nurture" and "help". These are good for propaganda, but have no place in geopolitics. The American administration is tasked to promote American interests -- they will do so with dictators or with flowers, whatever may be appropriate in any given situation. The welfare of the foreign entities is immaterial.

It is necessary to invoke these emotive concepts to get the American public to support a war of choice. When our leaders do so, and it is subsequently found that these moral goals were invoked falsely, then the American public withdraws its support and will punish the political leaders who were responsible for the deception or poor judgement. Hence the election of Barack Obama. YOU may not think these "emotive" concepts are important in geopolitics but you are wrong to think that they are not important to American domestic politics. And, given America's role in the world, American domestic politics and geopolitics are intertwined.

 

[Developereo]

It is necessary to invoke these emotive concepts to get the American public to support a war of choice. When our leaders do so, and it is subsequently found that these moral goals were invoked falsely, then the American public withdraws its support and will punish the political leaders who were responsible for the deception or poor judgement. Hence the election of Barack Obama. YOU may not think these "emotive" concepts are important in geopolitics but you are wrong to think that they are not important to American domestic politics. And, given America's role in the world, American domestic politics and geopolitics are intertwined.

I fully agree with your analysis that these words are necessary to manufacture consent for war. My point was about your usage of those words as being somehow indicative of US intentions.

If the US had found a compliant warlord who could be relied on to do America's bidding, the US would have (mostly) left the region a long time ago, even if the guy was the biggest, most misogynistic drug lord in the country.

And, just to be clear, this criticism is not unique to America. All countries, especially powerful countries capable of force projection, behave this way.

 

[Awesome]

Going into Iraq was a stupid decision. Basically, the USA hoped to overthrow Saddam Hussein and then nurture a democratic, secular Arab society. The stupidity was to think that Arab Muslims were capable of creating a stable democracy. They clearly are not. Hence, the American people sacrificed thousands of young American lives and a trillion dollars of resources for a people who were not worthy of this sacrifice. It is always stupid to try to help a people who will not help themselves .....

PS. This is also the reason that trying to help Vietnam and Afghanistan was stupid. And, in like manner, it would be stupid for the USA to try to help Pakistan when Pakistan, is, clearly, unable to be helped.

With help like this...

You know not only a few thousand Americans died, but by the most conservative figures, at least 100,000 precious Iraqi lives died. You guys brought war - your soldiers dying is understandable, its natural. The Iraqis were bystanders and by large didn't ask for your help. You should make your leaders pay for their crimes or else they will keep on taking you into wars for the sake of big businesses that came out on top.

 

[Don Jaguar]

With help like this...

You know not only a few thousand Americans died, but by the most conservative figures, at least 100,000 precious Iraqi lives died. You guys brought war - your soldiers dying is understandable, its natural. The Iraqis were bystanders and by large didn't ask for your help. You should make your leaders pay for their crimes or else they will keep on taking you into wars for the sake of big businesses that came out on top.

Report of 2006.

Study: War blamed for 655,000 Iraqi deaths - CNN

 

[T-Rex]

Report of 2006.

Study: War blamed for 655,000 Iraqi deaths - CNN

It doesn't matter much to the champions of human rights, after all, Muslim blood is cheaper. It becomes a crime of the century when one or two or let's say a few dozen israelis die.