What's new

More than 300 PAF Mirages & F-7s will be retired in future. A huge market indeed.

guys
i have seen that many members here want a large fighter with good range
jf 17 has combat range of 1350 km
we want to give punch to Mumbai as they will do with Karachi
so the distance between Karachi to Mumbai is 1400km without being detected (by sea) so if we can build a missile that could or co develop a sea to air missile with china that have a range of 800 km than (as yj 12 has a range 500km so no problem in developing 800km Missile) so it means jft would have a combat range of 2150 km which means almost equilalent to su 35 in range of course it cannot carry 8 heavy missile at a time but atleast 3 or 1
even if we have su 35 which good range which will attack Mumbai inside so it will become prone to enemy fires and we might loss many planes but if we have jf 17 and a 800 km anti ship missile it will not only save costs but would protect our planes

ary bhai agr 800km range wala missile JFT say fire kya jai tou uske range 2150 hogy to agr app wohi missile su-35 say fire kare tou kitne hogy?? su-35 combat range is +2500km
 
You can scratch Rafales, EF-2000's, Gripens off your list, all of these platforms have been evaluated at one point or another and deemed too expensive or in case of gripen deemed "too American" --- that is if I've my history right ...

Blk-52's ... well one could make a case for them ... but are the things ideal with Pak-US relations ... does the US need us in a way it needed us back post 9/11 .. what is the sway of India in Washington DC etc etc. all of these things will contribute in what type of F-16's we get and in how much numbers we get them ...

The most ideal case for PAF would be 2 squadrons ... as it would meet their 110 F-16 goal ... so all we've gotta do is wait and watch ... things will become alot more clear after the new president of the US is elected ...
Then what is the possibility of getting more used F-16s?
 
Pakistan is waiting for the J-11D to mature up. Its a newer platform (specially the AESA) and the PL-15 LRBVR is still not as mature, in terms of being operational. The next logical step is obviously the J-31.

In between, Pakistan will get more -16's used, with lower flying miles. The discussions have been happening. With NS addressing the Think Tanks in the US, and the President, in a democratic, civil way, the anxiety inside the US administration should calm down (beauty of the democracy to get what you need through negotiations and mutual agreements).

Pakistan might also want to get some J-10C. With her growing economy and ambitions, she can sustain multiple platforms. Although , the JFT block III should be designed with more advanced air-frame (borrowing from the J-10C??).

I hardly doubt Chinese will give the J11 considering the Russian angle. Some sources were also mentioned that under some agreement Chinese cannot see J11 to third parties without Russian permission.
 
Then what is the possibility of getting more used F-16s?
The number stays around 110 in the most suitable cases nonetheless ... we could get older F-16's and upgrade them to be on par with blk-52's ... that would be a more cost effective approach ...
If you go through a post I posted earlier, I've reasoned that ... we essentially need to workout a solution for 5 squadrons ...

Most likely 2 would be the falcons ... 2 most likely would be the ones rumored to be in consideration (J-10C/J-11/SU-35) as recent discussions have gone on ... the last one could be another JFT squadron, or another falcon squadron to make up numbers ...

I hardly doubt Chinese will give the J11 considering the Russian angle. Some sources were also mentioned that under some agreement Chinese cannot see J11 to third parties without Russian permission.

The problem with the statement is ... deals are not carved up in stone ... with mutual understanding they can be changed ... With the Chinese wanting to protect their asset in CPEC, and the Russians joining in with investments ... the 3 nations can negotiate and come up with a solution ...

Recently with the SU-35 rumors, one article said something along the lines of ... you can take a SU-35 ... have it customized in China to suit PAF's needs and then deliver to PAF ... avoiding the major brunt of India's reaction, due to the notion that New Delhi has, that China supposedly makes crappy stuff ... so middle grounds are there to be explored ... you cannot put a definitive "NO" at the options at this point and time ... because the protection of the CPEC is in the interest of all the nations in question i.e Pak, China & Russia ...
 
AoA

This is news for me for I think CATIC is still offering this to us. Yes PAF evaluated the aircraft and rejected it because it was not a good fighter. To acquire this PAF needs to be convinced that it needs a fighter bomber. PDF could be a opinion maker. As long as we remain F-16 centric we will be defensive. PAF needs an deep strike offensive element in order to raise the nuclear threshold and ensure deterrence through conventional means.

Regards

@MastanKhan could you comment on JH7B no longer being in production?



AoA

Because a fighter cannot do what a bomber does with the same efficiency.

The JH-7B carries 9000 Kg of ordinance while the Su -35 carries 6900 with 50% internal fuel

Having a strike element with 9000 Kg of bombs greatly reduces the package size.

I remember Sir Qaiser's lecture - PAF concentrates more on the mean rather than the end.

Regards


Hi,

Information Dissemination: 2013 Chinese Air Force Review


A 2013 article ---" Bomber/fighter-bomber - We continue to see the H-6K bomber entering service with PLAAF this year. I don't expect a large production run of this bomber, but it can serve as a bomb truck until a more advanced bomber (which is currently under development) comes into service. That is something I don't expect until later this decade. After much speculation, we've finally seen the maiden flight of JH-7B recently. Contrary to earlier speculations, JH-7B has very few external modifications from JH-7A. The changes are the inclusion of a retractable IFR, strengthening of wing/fuselage to carry larger/heavier missiles and a new generation of avionics. JH-7B is likely to be developed for naval aviation since PLAAF is likely to purchase J-16 in the role of fighter-bomber.

As a whole, this has been a very busy year for Chinese military aviation. The appearances of Z-20, the second Y-20 and first JH-7B have been very exciting to PLAAF followers. At the same time, it's great to see J-10B production finally starting. J-10B and J-16 should be the main fighter jet for PLAAF until the end of this decade. The biggest things to look for next year will be the changes in the third prototype of J-20, the appearance of a next generation bomber and the development of new UAVs ".


The JH7B is going to be in service either at the end of the year or in the beginning of 2016---.

Here is a link that you will enjoy---plz also read the comments---you will love them


China’s JH-7 Electronic Fighter, Stealth Aircraft Medium-Range Killer | Tiananmen's Tremendous Achievements

Full article above link " In its report yesterday, mil.news.sina.com.cn says that the new electronic variant of JH-7 fighter/bomber is able to shoot down stealth aircrafts at medium range.

The new JH-7 uses the technology similar to US EA-18G which has been able to shoot down US F-22 stealth fighter jet. China has developed electronic equipment similar to that used on US EA-18G. As JH-7 can carry a heavy load, it is precisely the right warplane to carry such equipment.

JH-7 has similar combat radius and speed to J-10 and J-11. Some JH-7s and J-10s or J-11s can form a comprehensive combat group with JH-7 electronic fighters providing electronic interference. That will enable J-10s or J-11s to avoid being attacked by stealth fighters. In addition, due to JH-7’s large loading capacity, an electronic JH-7 can carry, in addition to the heavy electronic equipment, some anti-radiation and medium-range air-to-air missiles to shoot down some of the stealth fighters it has detected.

Moreover, a JH-7 electronic fighter/bomber shall to some extent be stealthy. Through various modifications, a new variant JH-7B has been developed to be stealthy. The new JH-7B is expected to be put into series production this year ".

I very much doubt that it is stealthy----.
 
The number stays around 110 in the most suitable cases nonetheless ... we could get older F-16's and upgrade them to be on par with blk-52's ... that would be a more cost effective approach ...
If you go through a post I posted earlier, I've reasoned that ... we essentially need to workout a solution for 5 squadrons ...

Most likely 2 would be the falcons ... 2 most likely would be the ones rumored to be in consideration (J-10C/J-11/SU-35) as recent discussions have gone on ... the last one could be another JFT squadron, or another falcon squadron to make up numbers ...



The problem with the statement is ... deals are not carved up in stone ... with mutual understanding they can be changed ... With the Chinese wanting to protect their asset in CPEC, and the Russians joining in with investments ... the 3 nations can negotiate and come up with a solution ...

Recently with the SU-35 rumors, one article said something along the lines of ... you can take a SU-35 ... have it customized in China to suit PAF's needs and then deliver to PAF ... avoiding the major brunt of India's reaction, due to the notion that New Delhi has, that China supposedly makes crappy stuff ... so middle grounds are there to be explored ... you cannot put a definitive "NO" at the options at this point and time ... because the protection of the CPEC is in the interest of all the nations in question i.e Pak, China & Russia ...

Your position is based on the assumption of Russian involvement in CPEC. To be honest, Russia needs a lot of FDI itself. I dont see it investing more in industries other than Oil and gas. And CPEC will take atleast a decade to materialize. And Russia if it does invest, will take atleast 5-7 years for its investment to become bigger. By that time J11 will have become obsolete. But currently if you think, China will sell J11, based on future assumption of Russian involvement in CPEC, its bound to fail, as Russia has more than 70B$ worth of projects with us. J11 and Su27, and Su30 shares nearly the same airframe, and hence will be India's reservation.

However if Russia sells Su35, all the scenario u had mentioned is possible. But lets see.
 
actually u didint got my point
firstly jf 17 will flow from sea
secondly it will not enter the airspace of mumbai it will be the missile that will hit the core target (eg aircraft carrier )
thirdly it will shoot from 600 km far away from mumbai airspace it would be very hard to detect a tiny aircraft from 600-700 km while very easy detect or even awacs are there to detect large ships or houses of submarine or aircraft carrier

when all main targets are destroyed then paf can send su 35 to reach mumbai to destroy more targets


As if you got any point.... Yeah it would be very hard to detect aircraft from 600-700km distance.... But how come a tiny Jet detect the ship from 600km distance... How can you get lock? Are you aware those AC consists more than 1 Sq jets.... All you are assuming... As jet flowing (as per you) through sea it can't be detected.... You simply thrashed Coastal Radar stations etc... If you can reach us that safe... I would call govt to scrap our armed forces .. ... You need come across IN and then IAF to reach Mumbai... You said Mumbai airspace previously.. Now you are taking U turn...
 
As i said we can use J-11D to protect Coastal area and as our sea boundaries increased by 50,000 Sq Km so we need jets that has more range and J-11D has 3525km range.. plus it can counter Indian Mig-29 Tejas and Harriers... plus it can strike deep into India with that range and load.... In case we didn't get Su-35

As per Chinese members it j-10 C and
J-10C is upgraded semi-stealth multi-role variant of J-10B with enhanced 4th generation electronics including a more powerful AESA radar, more composite material and a more powerful engine was under development. The J-10C took to the sky for the first time on Dec 31, 2013.

look at the cockpit ... it has DSI intake and uses Chinese Engine
Long Range & twin engine fighters are best choice for maritime roles. Pakistan Airforce can induct 2-3 squadrons for Extended Exclusive Economic Zone, SirCreek and even the threats beyond strait of Hormuz. Moreover, 2 Indian aircraft carriers need to be respected as a potent threat. Our frigates needs some aerial cover against Mig 29 & Harriers. In my personal opinion, airforce's conventional role can be fulfilled by single engine but high tech aircrafts. JF-17 Block III is still a hidden package for world. 50-100 Block III will be enough against whole adversary. Our pilots are topguns among topguns. A squadron of F-104 proved this already :-)

hahhaha take the loan pay the bill.
A jet purchased from borrowed money is as lethal as a jet purchased by net payment.

JF-17 was designed to replace them.......but not on a one to one basis.
brother, remember that half of the F-16s fleet will also be retired and phased out. We have to purchase 100 more new jets even if we induct 1 JF-17 for 2 Mirages or F-7s. Space for 100 jets still available for foreign purchases.

36 SU-35s are not enough at least 80 should be acquired from Russia. 150 JFT are enough for PAF to raise 6 to 7 squadrons.

Total number of replaceable units...

AGING FLEET
Mirage III
75
Mirage V 82
F-7 186
A-5 55

Total 398

REPLACEMENTS
JF-17 I/II/III
95 (Because 55 JF-17 have replaced 55 A-5 III)
SU-35 S 80

Total 175

So if we remove 55 A-5 from replaceable units total we have 343 units and subtract it with the second total we will get the figure 168.

So we will need 168 more Jets to replace the aging fleet.
A-5s are already replaced if i am not wrong. Number 16 and Number 26 squadrons inducted JF-17s and are operation completely in their war in FATA and in exercises of Azm e Nau/High Marks etc.

$50 million for modern combat aircraft is too low
Pakistani defense planners always purchases according to requirements. Nothing more or less with no corruption and kickbacks. Superior skills and tactics of our topguns works as force multipliers. They can turn any modern 4th Gen Aircraft into a lethal machine.

ary bhai agr 800km range wala missile JFT say fire kya jai tou uske range 2150 hogy to agr app wohi missile su-35 say fire kare tou kitne hogy?? su-35 combat range is +2500km
We can simply use Submarine Launched Babur Cruise Missile instead developing a completely new missile for just attacking a city. Why we need to attack a city with lot of civilians? Pakistan's targets are purely strategic when we talk about long ranged missiles. SLCMs or ALCMs can easily hit the vital organs of adversary. Pakistani defense planners already prepared and practiced multiple solutions of these things which are you discussing now. Cruise Missiles, Ballistic Missiles, Standoff weapons, PAF strike aircrafts have capability to hit the target of their own choice. Kindly trust the capability of your forces.

Then what is the possibility of getting more used F-16s?
F-16 is and will be a precious part of our airforce. It is a potent aircraft with capability to hunt down any aircraft. Many members are disrespecting this excellent fighting machine. JF-17 Block III will be technologically advance than F-16 Block 52 but Fighting Falcon is a beauty! It needs respect.
 
-Pakistani experience with US jets.
-Current strong ties.
-Pakistan navy requirement, the F/18 is the best around.
-Cross platform via the F/16 e.g. AMRAMS.

Is it feasible, not quite.

But all that can also be achieved with late model F-16s too
No need to induct a new platform
Only area the f-16 lacks is a growler version
 
Last edited:
PAF upgraded force elements shall be maintained till 2025. Additionally, PAF shall require a deep strike / interdiction aircraft upon retirement of ROSE mirages. The most suitable candidate is a Eurofighter. Both affordability and releasability are in question, but geopolitical matters are like shifting sands.
 
Hi,

Talking bull-sh-it is okay---but when you start believing in it---that is a problem----.

Indeed, F104 was a colossal failure. Couldn't turn to save its own life. With the tanks on, had no manuverability and could be taken out with a gnat or a Mig, without the fuel tanks and AIM-9B didn't have the range. But if you believe in the brouhaha, it was a top gun, lol. Looks good in museums and roundabouts, I must say.
 
A squadron of F-104 proved this already

It was the unfounded inferiority complex the Indian Air Force had against the F-104. Its capabilities were considered to be too legendary by the IAF. It was overrated. During the course of the war they realized it was just a fighter like their MiG-21
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom