Moral brigade active in Islamabad again

[CHI RULES]

What do u guys think of this ad:

as per this dear respectable Syed Ali this is marketing for me it is vulgarity.

 

[Jf Thunder]

I have noticed that most are bashing member Zarvan for his conservative views! Fair enough.

Some members are also quick to point out that men should lower their gaze at the sight of women! Fair enough.

However, I have some questions:

Q1. How is modeling and fashion an acceptable business in a society that claims to be Islamic?

Q2. Should women be given green light to wear anything in the public (including bikinis)? [But men of faith should not be expected to object, rather lower their gaze at the sight of such women? Is this the solution?]

----

I don't get the double-standards and subtle attempts to support vulgarity.

Holy Quran reveals 3 kind of people:

1. Kafir (Non-believers)
2. Munafiq (Believers who are not genuine)
3. Believers (Genuine)

Grown-ups can certainly figure out where they fit...

I WOULD BE THE FIRST TOO CONDEMN BIKINIS
This is an "Islamic Republic" not a "Mullah Republic" nor is it a "Do Whatever You Like Republic"

 

[Zarvan]

He will never come close to this. He will only post his favorite hadith as usual.

Yes still both are not allowed to look at each other and where it says women face was not covered I told you what HAZRAT AYESHA RA said

 

[syedali73]

I agree that is state needs to do these or moral brigades will come .

Let them come; I assure you their fate will not be any different than those swines who were burnt alive in 2007 in masjid Zarrar operation.

 

[[Bregs]]

Frustrating...isn't it? That's why I like to make fun of him and pick on him...and yet a lot of people back him up and support him.

May be only because he never looses his cool while having discussions

 

[Zarvan]

I WOULD BE THE FIRST TOO CONDEMN BIKINIS
This is an "Islamic Republic" not a "Mullah Republic" nor is it a "Do Whatever You Like Republic"

Even these so called modest ads are also not allowed

 

[Secur]

He will never come close to this. He will only post his favorite hadith as usual.

This is without realizing and these Mullahs should hang themselves in shame learning it from us that the orders for the Prophet's family are much strict than the general believers. These people don't have an ounce of idea about context and acceptability of any Hadith. They will rather distort the meaning of quranic verses by adding () in between rather than mend their ways.

as per this dear respectable Syed Ali this is marketing for me it is vulgarity.

Well you should have lowered your gaze by now but then again. Confront the inner devils first of seeing women as meat. The ultimate objectification which you accuse others of! A symptom I have seen in my students who studied in male-only institutions and later turned awkward towards the opposite gender.

 

[Jf Thunder]

Yes it tells both and this itself proofs using women in ads is haram

the Quran says "Lower YOUR gaze"

and this does not ban adds anywhere, please tell me where does the translation of those 3 words of the Quran says that ads are haraam?

Most are from Bukhari lady

not lady.

i saw most of them are from Dawood and Tirmidi

 

[Secur]

He will never come close to this. He will only post his favorite hadith as usual.

Ironically, it also answers his "even then you should lower your gaze" logic. The most ridiculous of all arguments. The beauty was there to see, not hidden as the Mullah is alleging.

 

[syedali73]

This is without realizing and these Mullahs should hang themselves in shame learning it from us that the orders for the Prophet's family are much strict than the general believers. These people don't have an ounce of idea about context and acceptability of any Hadith. They will rather distort the meaning of quranic verses by adding () in between rather than mend their ways.

Neither it is time nor venue to dissect hadith here; suffice to say that certain Muslims were influenced by Jewish system whereby they have the old testament, the Torah, and Talmud. Ilm ul Hidith, was sort of invented some 200 years after the death of the Prophet (PBUH) to mimic the Jewish system of Torah and Talmud and in order to give it legitimacy, they invented another branch of knowledge called Ilm ur Rijjal, which is really funny for you try to establish the character of a person who had passed 50 or 100 or 200 years before you. At any rate, it is 1:23 am and I need to go to bed now.

 

[Secur]

Neither it is time nor venue to dissect hadith here; suffice to say that certain Muslims were influenced by Jewish system whereby they have the old testament, the Torah, and Talmud. Ilm ul Hidith, was sort of invented some 200 years ago to mimic the Jewish system of Torah and Talmud and in order to give it legitimacy, they invented another branch of knowledge called Ilm ur Rijjal, which is really funny for you trying to establish the character of a person who had passed 50 or 100 or 200 years before you. At any rate, it is 1:23 am and I need to go to bed now.

At any rate. I, sir, am impressed with your knowledge. I am aware (very slightly) of the general undertones of Old testament in the religion. Even the commentary of Ibn-Kathir is said to be not free of such, adding elements from the interactions with Jews and their books. So the source to supplement becomes the commanding source, hats off!

 

[Jf Thunder]

Even these so called modest ads are also not allowed

source?

It is who are lying about Quran this intrepreation is agreed by all scholars


Hadith #1


Narrated Safiya bint Shaiba:

'Aisha used to say: "When (the Verse): "They should draw their veils over their necks and bosoms," was revealed, (the ladies) cut their waist sheets at the edges and covered their faces with the cut pieces."



►Volume 6, Book 60, Number 282: (Sahih Bukhari) @Jf Thunder

then what about the Hadith @waz quoted?

oh dear same thought i was having , i was reluctant to mention here though as this i thought might offend members

yeah, i have alot of radical mullah friends, i say the same sentence to them also, so im pretty open.

 

[Zarvan]

Neither it is time nor venue to dissect hadith here; suffice to say that certain Muslims were influenced by Jewish system whereby they have the old testament, the Torah, and Talmud. Ilm ul Hidith, was sort of invented some 200 years ago to mimic the Jewish system of Torah and Talmud and in order to give it legitimacy, they invented another branch of knowledge called Ilm ur Rijjal, which is really funny for you trying to establish the character of a person who had passed 50 or 100 or 200 years before you. At any rate, it is 1:23 am and I need to go to bed now.

"The Niqaab in light of the Holy Quran and Sahih Hadith and in the Opinions of the great scholars....



From the Quran.....(This tafseer is Agreed upon by Ibn Kathir, Al-Qurtabi and At-Tabari)

The Noble Qur'an ........
Fatwaa on niqaab
"The most correct opinion, which is supported by evidence, is that it isobligatory to cover the face, therefore young women are forbidden to uncover their faces in front of non-mahram men in order to avoid any mischief"
An other fatwaa when he was asked about is it preferred for sisters to wear the niqab, he said....
"The fact is that it is obligatory for women to cover their faces" as to how to wear the niqaab the Shaikh said "A woman may uncover her left eye in order to see where she is going, and if necessary she may uncover both eyes. The opening should only be wide enough for the eyes."
Yet in an other Fatwaa he explained what was the Awrah of a woman with..."Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) said “All of a woman is ‘awrah.” (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi with a saheeh isnaad).This is the correct view according to the madhhab of the Hanbalis, one of the two views of the Maalikis and one of the two views of the Shaafa’is.

Shaikh ibn Uthaimin

Question: What is the Islamic hijab?
Response: The Islamic hijab is for the women to cover everything that is forbidden for her to expose. That is, she covers everything that she must cover. The first of those bodily parts that she must cover is her face. It is the source of temptation and the source of people desiring her. Therefore, the woman must cover her face in front of those men that are not mahram. As for those of who claim that the Islamic hijab is to cover the head, shoulders, back, feet, shin and forearms while allowing her to uncover her face and hands, this is a very amazing claim. This is because it is well known that the source of temptation and looking is the face. How can one say that the Shariah does not allow the exposure of the foot of the woman while it allows her to uncover her face? It is not possible that there could be in the Esteemed, Wise and Noble Shariah a contradiction.( 'Islamic Fatwas regarding Women' Page # 289)

Shaikh Jamaal Zarabozo

In Surah Al-Ahzab, verse 59, Allah has ordered the believing women to wear a jilbab. A jilbab as defined in all the books of tafseer is a cloak that covers the woman's body from the top of her head to her feet. It is also described in those books, form the scholars of the earliest generation that after that verse was revealed, the women would completely cover themselves, leaving, for example, just one eye exposed so they can see the road. Hence, this is the outer garment of the woman that she must wear when she is in front of men she is not related to.

Shaikh Ibn Jibreen

Question: I am married to a woman who wears, praise to Allah, hijab. However, as is the custom in my country, she does not wear hijab in front of her sister's husband and her sister does not wear hijab in my presence. This is the custom. Furthermore, my wife does not wear hijab in the presence of my brother or her cousins. Does this go against the Shariah and religion? What can I do while it has become the custom in my country not to wear hijab in the presence of those people that I mentioned. If I tell my wife to wear hijab in front of those people, she will accuse me of not trusting her and being suspicious about her and so forth.
Response: All of those groups of men that you mentioned in the question are not mahram for her. It is not allowed for her to uncover her face and beauty in front of them. Allah has only allowed her to uncover in front of the mahram men mentioned in the verse in surah al-Nur,
"[Tell the believing women] not to reveal their adornments except to their husbands, their fathers ......" (al-Nur 31).
First, you should convince your wife that it is forbidden to uncover her face in front of non-mahram men. Make her abide by that even if it goes against the customs of your people and even if she makes accusations against you. You should also make this point clear to your close relatives that you mentioned, that is, the brethren of the husband, the husband of the sister, the cousins and so forth. All of them are non-mahram and they all may marry her if she gets divorced. ("Islamic Fatwas regarding Women")

Shaikh Abul A'la Maududi (Who was the founder of "Jamat-ul-Islami" also a known and respect scholar of the Hanafi madhab)“A person who considers carefully the wordings of the Quranic verses, their well-known and genreally accepted meaning and the practice during the time of the Holy Prophet (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) cannot dare deny the fact that the islamic Shari'ah enjoins on the woman to hide her face from the other people and this has been the practice of the Muslim women ever since the time of the Holy Prophet(Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) himself” (In the book "Purda" by Shaikh Abul A'la Maududi P# 199 )





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source?


then what about the Hadith @waz quoted?


yeah, i have alot of radical mullah friends, i say the same sentence to them also, so im pretty open.

The Niqaab in light of the Holy Quran and Sahih Hadith and in the Opinions of the great scholars....



From the Quran.....(This tafseer is Agreed upon by Ibn Kathir, Al-Qurtabi and At-Tabari)

The Noble Qur'an ........

Surah Al-Ahzaab, Verse #59
‘O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks ("Jalabib") veils all over their bodies (screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way Tafseer Al-Qurtabi)that is most convenient that they should be known (as such) and not molested: and Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful."

Surah An-Nur, Verses #30 and #31
‘And Say to the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts)and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer palms of hands or one eye or dress like veil, gloves, head cover, apron), and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna(i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms)



From the Hadith.....

Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Hadith # 282
Narrated Safiya bint Shaiba(Radhiallaahu Ánha) "Aisha (Radhiallaahu Ánha) used to say: "When (the Verse): "They should draw their veils over their necks and bosoms," was revealed, (the ladies) cut their waist sheets at the edges and covered their faces with the cut pieces.

Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 1, Book 8, Hadith # 368
Narrated 'Aisha (Radhiallaahu Ánha)Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam)used to offer the Fajr prayer and somebelieving women covered with their veiling sheets used to attend the Fajr prayer with him and then they would return to their homes unrecognized . Shaikh Ibn Uthaimin in tafseer of this hadith explains "This hadith makes it clear that the Islamic dress is concealing of the entire body as explained in this hadith. Only with the complete cover including the face and hands can a woman not be recognized. This was the understanding and practice of the Sahaba and they were the best of group, the noblest in the sight of Allah (swt) with the most complete Imaan and noblest of characters. so if the practice of the women of the sahaba was to wear the complete veil then how can we deviate from their path? (Ibn Uthaimin in the book "Hijaab" page # 12 and 13)

Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 1, Book 4, Hadith # 148
Narrated 'Aisha (Radhiallaahu Ánha): The wives of Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) used to go to Al-Manasi, a vast open place (near Baqia at Medina) to answer the call of nature at night. 'Umar used to say to the Prophet "Let your wives be veiled," but Rasulullah(Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) did not do so. One night Sauda bint Zam'a the wife of the Prophet went out at 'Isha' time and she was a tall lady. 'Umar addressed her and said, "I have recognized you, O Sauda." He said so, as he desired eagerly that the verses of Al-Hijab (the observing of veils by the Muslim women) may be revealed. So Allah revealed the verses of "Al-Hijab"(A complete body cover excluding the eyes).

Tirmidhi with a SAHIH chain reports...
"Rasulullah(Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam)said “All of a woman is ‘awrah.” (Shaikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid quotes this hadith narrated by Tirmidhi with a sahih isnaad and says this is a direct hadith from Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam )and has made it clear that a woman must cover everything including the face and hands!)

Abu Dawood Book 14, Hadith # 2482
Narrated Thabit ibn Qays (Radhiallaahu Ánhu): A woman called Umm Khallad came to the Prophet (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) while she was veiled. She was searching for her son who had been killed (in the battle) Some of the Companions of the Prophet (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) said to her: You have come here asking for your son while veiling your face? She said: If I am afflicted with the loss of my son, I shall not suffer the loss of my modesty. Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam)said: You will get the reward of two martyrs for your son. She asked: Why is that so, oh Prophet of Allah? He replied: Because the people of the Book have killed him.

Abu Dawood Book 32, Hadith # 4090
Narrated Umm Salamah, Ummul Mu'minin (Radhiallaahu Ánha): When the verse "That they should cast their outer garments over their persons" was revealed, the women of Ansar came outas if they had crows over their heads by wearing outer garments.

Abu Dawood Book 32, Hadith # 4091
Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin(Radhiallaahu Ánha) "May Allah have mercy on the early immigrant women. When the verse "That they should draw their veils over their bosoms" was revealed, they tore their thick outer garments and made veils from them. Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalanee, who is known as Ameer Al-Mu'mineen in the field of Hadith, said that the phrase, "covered themselves", in the above Hadith means that they "covered their faces". [Fath Al-Bari].

Imaam Malik's MUWATTA Book 20 Hadith # 20.5.16
Yahya related to me from Malik from Hisham ibn Urwa that Fatima bint al-Mundhir (Radhiallaahu Ánha) said, "We used to veil our faces when we were in Ihram in the company of Asma bint Abi Bakr As-Siddiq (Radhiallaahu Ánha). "Thisagain proves that not only the wives of Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam)wore the Niqaab and that even though in Ihram women are not supposed to wear Niqaab but if men are there they still have to cover the face.

Abu Dawood Book 10, Hadith # 1829
Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: (Radhiallaahu Ánha) who said, "The riders would pass us while we were with the Messenger of Allah(Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam). When they got close to us, we would draw our outer cloak from our heads over our faces. When they passed by, we would uncover our faces.
Recorded by Ahmad, Abu Dawood and Ibn Majah, Narrated 'Aisha. [In his work Jilbab al-Marah al-Muslimah, al-Albani states (p. 108) that it is hasan due to corroborating evidence. Also, in a narration from Asma{who was not the wife of Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam)}, Asma also covered her face at all times in front of men.] Shaikh Ibn Uthaimin in his tafseer of this hadith explains "This hadith indicates the compulsion of the concealing of the faces as an order of Shariah, because during the Ihram it is "wajib" (compulsory) NOT to wear the Niqaab. So if it was only mustahab (recommended) to cover the face then Aisha and Asma(Radhiallaahu Ánha) would have taken the wajib over the mustahab. It is well known by the Ullima that a wajib can only be left because of something that is also wajib or fardh. So Aisha and Asma (Radhiallaahu Ánha) covering the face even in Ihram in the presence of strange (ghairMahraam) men shows that they understood this to be an act that was wajib or fardh or they would not have covered the face in Ihraam.

Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 7, Book 72, Hadith # 715
Narrated 'Ikrima (Radhiallaahu Ánhu)narrates "Rifa'a divorced his wife whereupon 'AbdurRahman bin Az-Zubair Al-Qurazi married her. 'Aisha said that the lady (came), wearing a green veil." It is a very long hadith but the point is the women of Sahaba wore the full veil.

Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 1, Book 8, Hadith # 347
Narrated Um 'Atiya (Radhiallaahu Ánha)We were ordered (by Rasulullah '(Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) to bring out our menstruating women and veiled women in the religious gatherings and invocation of Muslims on the two 'Eid festivals. These menstruating women were to keep away from their Musalla. A woman asked, "O Allah's Apostle ' What about one who does not have a veil (the veil is the complete cover with only one eye or two eyes showing)?" He said, "Let her share the veil of her companion."Shaikh Ibn Uthaimin in tafseer of this hadith explained "This hadith proves that the general norm amongst the women of the Sahaba(Radhiallaahu Ánhuma) was that no woman would go out of her home without a cloak, fully concealed and if she did not posses a veil, then it was not possible for her to go out. it was for this reason that when Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) ordered them to go to the Place for Eid Salah, they mentioned this hindrance. As a result Rasulullah(Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) said that someone should lend her a veil, but did not say they could go out without it. If Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam)did not allow women to go to a place like the Eid Salah, which has been ordered by Shariah for women and men alike, then how can people let women to out to market places and shopping centers without where there is open intermingling of the sexes, without a veil. (by Shaikh Ibn Uthaimin in the book "Hijaab" page # 11)

Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 8, Book 76, Hadith # 572
In the end of this very long hadith it quotes Anas (Radhiallaahu Ánho) rates from Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) "and if one of the women of Paradise looked at the earth, she would fill the whole space between them (the earth and the heaven) with light, and would fill whatever is in between them, with perfume, and the veil of her face is better than the whole world and whatever is in it." This show that even the women of Junnah have veils and the word veil is what covers the face (niqaab).

Abu Dawood Book 33, Hadith # 4154, Agreed upon by Nasai
Aisha(Radhiallaahu Ánha) narrates that on one occasion a female Muslim wanted to give a letter to the Holy Prophet (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam), the letter was delivered to the Holy Prophet (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam)from behind a curtain.
Note: Quoted in the famous bookMishkaat. Here the Mufasereen of hadith have explained that the hadith where women came up to Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) face to face were before the ayah "And when you ask (his wives) for anything you want, ask them from behind a screen, that is purer for your hearts and for their hearts." (Surah AlAhzâb ayah # 53) And this hadith proves this order is for the whole Ummah not just for the wives of Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam)!

Abu Dawood Book 2, Hadith # 0641
Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin(Radhiallaahu Ánha) "Rasulullah(Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) said "Allah does not accept the prayer of a woman who has reached puberty unless she wears a veil."

Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 9, Book 89, Hadith # 293
Narrated 'Aisha (Radhiallaahu Ánha)Utba bin Abi Waqqas said to his brother Sa'd bin Abi Waqqas, "The son of the slave girl of Zam'a is from me, so take him into your custody." So in the year of Conquest of Mecca, Sa'd took him and said. (This is) my brother's son whom my brother has asked me to take into my custody." 'Abd bin Zam'a got up before him and said, (He is) my brother and the son of the slave girl of my father, and was born on my father's bed." So they both submitted their case before Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam). Sa'd said, "O Allah's Apostle! This boy is the son of my brother and he entrusted him to me." 'Abd bin Zam'a said, "This boy is my brother and the son of the slave girl of my father, and was born on the bed of my father." Rasulullah(Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam)said, "The boy is for you, O 'Abd bin Zam'a!" Then Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) further said, "The child is for the owner of the bed, and the stone is for the adulterer," Rasulullah(Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) then said to Sauda bint Zam'a, "Veil (screen) yourself before him," when he saw the child's resemblance to 'Utba. The boy did not see her again till he met Allah. note: This hadith proves Rasulullah(Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) did infact order the veil to be observed.

Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 7, Book 65, Hadith # 375
Narrated Anas (Radhiallaahu Ánhu) Iknow (about) the Hijab (the order of veiling of women) more than anybody else. Ubai bin Ka'b used to ask me about it. Allah's Apostle became the bridegroom of Zainab bint Jahsh whom he married at Medina. After the sun had risen high in the sky, the Prophet invited the people to a meal. Rasulullah(Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) remained sitting and some people remained sitting with him after the other guests had left. Then Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) got up and went away, and I too, followed him till he reached the door of 'Aisha's room. Then he thought that the people must have left the place by then, so he returned and I also returned with him. Behold, the people were still sitting at their places. So he went back again for the second time, and I went along with him too. When we reached the door of 'Aisha's room, he returned and I also returned with him to see that the people had left. Thereupon Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) hung a curtain between me and him and the Verse regarding the order for (veiling of women) Hijab was revealed.

Abu Dawood Book 32, hadith # 4100
Narrated Umm Salamah, Ummul Mu'minin(Radhiallaahu Ánha): I was with Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) while Maymunah was with him. Then Ibn Umm Maktum came. This happened when we were ordered to observe veil. Rasulullah(Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) said: Observe veil from him. We asked: oh Rasulullah! is he not blind? He can neither see us nor recognize us. Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) said: Are both of you blind? Do you not see him?

The opinions of the great scholars about the Niqaab...

From the Sahaba (Radhiallaahu Ánhuma) .......

Ibn Ábbaas (Radhiallaahu Ánhu), who was one of the most knowledgeable companions of Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam), Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) even made duwaa for him saying "O Allah, make him acquire a deep understanding of the religion of Islam and instruct him in the meaning and interpretation of things."
Ibn Jarir (Rahimahullah) with an authentic chain of narrators has quoted Ibn Abbaas' (Radhiallaahu Án) opinion was "that the Muslim women are ordered to cover their head and faceswith outer garments except for one eye." (This is quoted in the Ma'riful Qur'an in the tafseer of Surah Ahzaab ayah # 33, with reference of Ibn Jarir with a sahih chain of narrators). The Tabiee Ali Bin Abu Talha explained that this was the last opinion of Ibn Abbas and the other opinions quoted from him were from before Surah Al-Ahzaab, Verse #59 and the order of the "Jalabib". Shaikh Ibn Uthaimin commented on this say
@syedali73 @Secur @Irfan Baloch

 

[Secur]

@Zarvan Its useless to mass-post from multiple sources if you and your "great" scholars can't even answer a basic logical question. After all, one wouldn't ask his students to study and then command to keep the books away at the next instance? Because that would be illogical.

 

[shaheenmissile]

Is it the ISIS, JuD, DPC or Taliban?

This is not terrorism if thats what you are implying. People didnt like it and they spray painted it. Simple.