Mood of the Indian Muslims

[Baibars_1260]

Given the history of the region, of course we were going to have a lingering problem post Independence, that's just a sad fact.

What hate of Hindu society ? The average person doesn't waste their time thinking about genocide and gassing people ffs. Cant deny there are instances of bigotry or the current divisive climate but there is no great bloodlust. It'll never be perfect but let's all just get along.

You are oversimplifying or simply being polite.
The average person or rather Hindu in India gets his history from the government approved text books.
So the mindset is conditioned from childhood. History TV serials, "patriotic" Indo-Pak war movies , "Historical" movies depict a very different picture of Muslims and your friendly neighborhood tailor is seen in that image. Without getting into a debate of what "Muslims" did or didn't do to "Hindus " here is parallel.
Is 1000 year medieval history to determine the relationships between communities today?
The Mongols wreaked havoc on the Muslims globally wiping out 700 years of their civilization and 80% of their population. Do you hear any Muslim calling for revenge on Mongolia or present day Mongols for the sins of their ancestors ? In
fact Mongolia and Central Asian Muslim nations have a pretty cordial relations.

Got some work done from a muslim carpenter, ordered a kilo of chicken from quereshi meat guy and ate a roll at Khan Chacha's, all in a day. Again, not denying the very real problems, but a lot of you guys, not just muslims, but the anti BJP lot in general.. all this nazi business. Just don't see it happening here, stuff like Indian citizen muslims being rounded up en masse etc.. you're crazy for believing that.

The bearded lungi clad Muslim as meat vendor with a skull cap The carpenter, tailor, food stall server, tire repair guy is where you interact with Muslims.
You do not interact ( or would want to interact ) with Muslims who are pilots, marine engineers, doctors, IT professionals, surgeons,
scientists, police officers, and cricket players. Nor would you like to interact with an aerospace scientist even he played the Veena, could read Sanskrit and spoke Tamil even if he somehow became a President, because he didn't wear a skull cap or beard and learned too much Tensor Calculus and CFD.
If a Muslim candidate were to turn up for a IT job he would be viewed very differently from the way you view Khan Chaacha.
Overall I would say your interaction is different and gracious . Others interact with Muslims as corpse carriers, janitors, and sewer cleaners.

it's just not very nice of you to refer to "Hindu society" that way. Make the effort of separating Babu Bajrangi types from the rest of us please, even us BJP voters.

Heh, that gave me a chuckle.

You write well but no.. aisa nahi hoga. Itnay gae guzray bhi nahi hai mera lot.

The Nuremberg laws prevented Jews from holding any public office and Fritz Haber who developed the fixation of Nitrogen into Ammonia and the powerful explosives that served Germany in both World Wars was removed from office because he was a non-practicing Jew. Until that happened Fritz Haber was like that super patriotic aerospace scientist I just referred to. Unfortunately Haber lived to see his humiliation like your super patriotic Vice President who was booed put of office on his retirement and nearly got lynched when visiting his alma mater in Aligarh.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

The bearded lungi clad Muslim as meat vendor with a skull cap The carpenter, tailor, food stall server, tire repair guy is where you interact with Muslims.
You do not interact ( or would want to interact ) with Muslims who are pilots, marine engineers, doctors, IT professionals, surgeons,

Great post as usual.

I will simply add that Hindustan deliberately raises and highlights a certain type of Muslim caricature in order to sustain a specific narrative (that Muslims are to remain dalitised).

 

[-=virus=-]

Right, but that's still enforcing your worldview (albeit in a harsher way), which is my point: it's good to do, in some cases especially more than others.

Yeah, scorched earth against ISIS types. For everyone's but for the muslims' sake in real terms the most.

But there should be if you believe in it.

No, we're ok letting others be just the way they are. It is the correct approach.

Khurram or Kumar, depends entirely on the individual how they've gone about living life, how their thought process works. I know some muslims here who are the most non muslim muslims ever lol,

no.. Indians (hindus) have no desire to convert any other. Yahwey, muhammed, jesus, vishnu.. all good.

I mean that is their job lol.

yup, and what a great shame that is.

dragging 2 billion people through the mud as they go around driving over people in Christmas markets and.. you know the rest.

Pakistan technically isn't either, but we know how that's going.

The Saudis or Iran aren't either then, but the ideology is hard coded into the laws there.

Here, it isn't, and it can never be up until the time the Hindus remain in the majority and in power.

Well, the recent laws against love jihad can certainly be argued as doing so. And this is just the start.

The text read that they are anti forceful or deceptively coerced into conversion laws.

What else can India do when we do not have a culture of proselytizing but the Abrahamists are going the whole hog taking advantage of it ? This is the pushback I mentioned.

Can you imagine these mass conversions of the most vulnerable in Pakistan, who happen to be muslims, to some other way ? Islam won't allow it, your constitution also probably does not allow it.

Don't have super strong convictions on the whole thing personally but it is objectively wrong to engage in that kind of behaviour. Wouldn't you agree ?

 

[KurtisBrian]

scorched earth against ISIS types

you ever say that word backwards? Isis to Sisi which equals sissy. haha the army of sissy men was quickly smashed by everyone else.

Georgie Porgy, pudding pie, kissed the girls and made them cry
When the boys came out to play, Georgie Porgy ran away.

 

[-=virus=-]

The bearded lungi clad Muslim as meat vendor with a skull cap The carpenter, tailor, food stall server, tire repair guy is where you interact with Muslims.
You do not interact ( or would want to interact ) with Muslims who are pilots, marine engineers, doctors, IT professionals, surgeons,
scientists, police officers, and cricket players. Nor would you like to interact with an aerospace scientist even he played the Veena, could read Sanskrit and spoke Tamil even if he somehow became a President, because he didn't wear a skull cap or beard and learned too much Tensor Calculus and CFD.
If a Muslim candidate were to turn up for a IT job he would be viewed very differently from the way you view Khan Chaacha.
Overall I would say your interaction is different and gracious . Others interact with Muslims as corpse carriers, janitors, and sewer cleaners.

On the contrary, I speak from real experience with muslims from all walks of life, the carpenter (a good dude, his old man retired.. younger gen took over.. been here since decades, plys his trade here in a middle/upper middle class neighbourhood I'd say)

are some people here bigoted and will not employ his ? very likely, but things are fine for "salim" let's call him.. the kebab guys are doing roaring business off of their mostly Hindu/non muslim clientele.

kashmiri pilot as well, and real estate, doctors, auto industry employees.. all doing fine but there is a "us vs them" sense that is more amplified lately maybe (not entirely sure, never touched on those issues because.. obviously..)

yeah, slightly messy probably, but not nearly as bad as some of you imagine.. at least in the big cities with "educated" folk.

you ever say that word backwards? Isis to Sisi which equals sissy. haha the army of sissy men was quickly smashed by everyone else.

Georgie Porgy, pudding pie, kissed the girls and made them cry
When the boys came out to play, Georgie Porgy ran away.

The Kashmir insurgency is very low intensity for a reason.

 

[xeuss]

are some people here bigoted and will not employ his ? very likely, but things are fine for "salim" let's call him.. the kebab guys are doing roaring business off of their mostly Hindu/non muslim clientele.

My informal survey points to most Muslims saying that things are not fine, and yet you insist things are fine.

For the last 70 years Muslims have endured riots, sufferings, state sponsored pogroms, incarceration, discrimination, but Sanghis keep insisting things are fine - because according to them, this is how Muslims should be treated.

 

[xeuss]

You forgot to ask the most important question.
Do you still think Jinnah was wrong and so his two nation theory? Do you regret the decision of staying with India your elders made ?

Indian Muslims are largely poor and lowly educated to understand history and geopolitics on a macrolevel and its effect on the microlevel. Pakistan/Jinnah does not exist in their sphere of knowledge. If you ask a common Muslim street vendor on why his parents did not emigrate to Pakistan or if Jinnah was right, he will give you a bewildered look. When people are living hand-to-mouth and struggling to get by, such fanciful intellectual arguments of the past have little meaning.

Let's also be honest here. Migration for 200 million Muslims was neither practical, and nor possible. Furthermore, the Nehru-Liaqat pact of 1950 (?) eliminated the need of population transfers. No matter how many Muslims migrated to Pakistan, there were bound to be Muslims left behind.

 

[Baibars_1260]

On the contrary, I speak from real experience with muslims from all walks of life, the carpenter (a good dude, his old man retired.. younger gen took over.. been here since decades, plys his trade here in a middle/upper middle class neighbourhood I'd say)

are some people here bigoted and will not employ his ? very likely, but things are fine for "salim" let's call him.. the kebab guys are doing roaring business off of their mostly Hindu/non muslim clientele.

kashmiri pilot as well, and real estate, doctors, auto industry employees.. all doing fine but there is a "us vs them" sense that is more amplified lately maybe (not entirely sure, never touched on those issues because.. obviously..)

yeah, slightly messy probably, but not nearly as bad as some of you imagine.. at least in the big cities with "educated"

Perhaps.. Your personal and anecdotal assurances certainly represent a very secular and deeply inclusive viewpoint. If I may add this viewpoint is either in a minority of if not then certainly on thd wane.
We need to go no further than the comments listed below each of the news items on the online edition of the Times of India . Those comments reflect the true feelings of the majority of the educated English elite. What is more some of the "Hindi only" crowd pitch in and write their comments in the Devanagari script. My basic self taught Devanagari script coupled with Google Script translate software has revealed much how the average Indian thinks about Indian Muslims and Muslims in general. These are best left untranslated. The insults by Charlie Hebdo, and the European Islamophobes pale into comparison when one translates the Hindi texts.
What is written in the comments sections of Eenadu , Malayalam Manorama , Samna , Rashtriya Sahara are best translated by Indian Muslims conversant with those languages. In fact Pakistan MFA should employ some good translators and forward the translations to the TLP.
Amusing incident on a super patriot IM Vice President.

Narendra Modi’s impolite taunt against Hamid Ansari

Narendra Modi’s impolite taunt against Hamid Ansari

www.newslaundry.com

Why AMU Violence Is About Hamid Ansari And Not Jinnah

After spending some time with students at the University, Ali Khan Mahmudabad finds out that the ‘portrait problem’ was deployed as a countermeasure to cover up the fact that a mob of people had arrived on the campus shouting slogans about the former vice-president of India.

www.outlookindia.com

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

re: OP. We have been here before folks. Hindutva revealed its uncivilised nature one too many times in the 20th century also, hence the birth of Pakistan became inevitable.

Part of me would insist that Indian Muslims fight tooth and nail to realign and redirect the nation of India to preserve their vast legacy in that country. India is not a Hindu rashtra at all. Muslims built Hindustan. Muslims built the secular republic. They should stay and fight so that they honour and preserve their legacy. Every Pakistani in this room shares the Mughal heritage of the subcontinent, hence the interest. How dare Hindus rewrite history and delete that which our ancestors built.

Having said that, if faced with a slow genocide and ongoing dalitisation (which is worse than genocide), a decision needs to be made soon and I wouldn't criticise any Indian muslim who flees simply to protect his children from the mobs.

One last thing. Several individuals questioned said it's up to Allah (swt) now - you have to help yourself first and foremost, then fate will play its hand. Such words show how desperate it now is.

Thanks for sharing this work.

They are bhaiyya muslims. They will not do anything!!

 

[Dual Wielder]

No, now it is very usual to post fancy thread in PDF with fake tweet/ source and now fancy story.

Who cares if it talks about India and does not matter even nearby the realities.

Thank GOD the people in the world are not fool.

lol, the whole world knows Your a fascist state, the only reason why countries like the US have restrained themselves is because Your more useful being used as cannon fodder against the roosting dragon up north.. Your fake 'secular democracy' is of no consequence..

 

[Drizzt]

Indian Muslims are largely poor and lowly educated to understand history and geopolitics on a macrolevel and its effect on the microlevel. Pakistan/Jinnah does not exist in their sphere of knowledge. If you ask a common Muslim street vendor on why his parents did not emigrate to Pakistan or if Jinnah was right, he will give you a bewildered look. When people are living hand-to-mouth and struggling to get by, such fanciful intellectual arguments of the past have little meaning.

Let's also be honest here. Migration for 200 million Muslims was neither practical, and nor possible. Furthermore, the Nehru-Liaqat pact of 1950 (?) eliminated the need of population transfers. No matter how many Muslims migrated to Pakistan, there were bound to be Muslims left behind.

Also, I don't think those who migrated are very happy either. People from East, center and south of India are facing difficult time fitting in with ethnicities in Pakistan like Pastun and Punjabi.

"We demand Sindh as separate, sovereign state: Altaf Hussain"

We demand Sindh as separate, sovereign state: Altaf Hussain

London [UK], June 12 (ANI): Founder leader of Muttahida Quami Movement (MQM), Altaf Hussain, has demanded Sindh as a separate, independent and sovereign state.

www.aninews.in

Seems like oil and water.

 

[Baibars_1260]

“Shoot the Traitors”

The 82-page report, “‘Shoot the Traitors’: Discrimination Against Muslims Under India’s New Citizenship Policy,” says the police and other officials have repeatedly failed to intervene when government supporters attacked those protesting the new citizenship policies. The police, however, have...

www.hrw.org

India’s Muslims: An Increasingly Marginalized Population

India’s Muslim communities have faced decades of discrimination, which experts say has worsened under the Hindu nationalist BJP’s government.

www.cfr.org

India had its own survey on the status of Indian Muslims.

Sachar Committee - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

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Are Muslims of India the new Shudras or rather even worse?
You can't find a genuine Shudra anymore to carry night soil (or burn corpses) which is why the shauchalyas of India are so dirty.
That is a good situation because it shows how far the Doms and Jamedars have moved up the social ladder. But the shauchalay won't be dirty very long. India will have a 200 million strong work force of Muslim doms or "new shudras " to do this kind of work.
Someone has to clean toilets, and carry corpses. Even the Dalits know that. So the Dalits support the degradation of Muslims down the social ladder. With economic, educational and employment boycotts the Muslims in India are fast slipping into the new Shudra status.
75% of the educated and affluent Muslims fled to Pakistan in sporadic migration events starting from 1947 and continuing up to 1971. From 1971 onwards when the Pakistani borders closed for 9 years, the emigration shifted to other countries with a further 20% of the intelligentsia migrated. Now only 0.5 % of the original intelligentsia is left in India and 99.5 % of the rest of the Indian Muslims are an unemployed, illiterate poverty stricken, starving miserable population which is decimated by lynchings rape and communal massacres by the majority community.
There is no comparison between an Indian Muslim and his Dalit compatriot,
Dalits ( Scheduled Caste, Scheduled Tribes ) have 22.5 % reservations in admissions for state funded job orientated education ( engineering, medicine, law etc.) and 22.5 % reservations in federal and state government employment which includes armed forces, paramilitary, and police forces, They also have reservations for National and Provincial assembly seats in elections at 22.5 % reservations.
The Dalits never had it so good .
For the record:
-The ruling coalition did not give a seat to a single Muslim to contest the elections and there are no elected Muslim lawmakers in the cabinet.
- There are no Muslim ministers in 28 of the 29 provinces and 7 federal territories that make up the Indian Union.
Effectively the Muslims have been politically disenfranchised and non-represented. The educational, and economic boycott has reduced them into doing exactly the work earlier allotted to Dalits.
About 50% of the incarcerated persons in the Indian prisons are Muslims. 80% of the people shot by the Indian police in so-called " encounters " are Muslims, About 1000 to 2000 Muslims are killed in "communal" violence and about 100,000 to 200,000 are rendered as refugees or homeless displaced persons. 80% of India's slums are populated by Muslims who face a housing boycott, It is prohibited to rent or sell a house to a Muslim in all cities in India. Muslims have no rights to graveyards mosques or their own schools, No building permits are issued to demarcate graveyards, build mosques or build housing. Rural Muslim communities have been displaced from their lands by encroachment and barred from owning cattle, so they are effectively prevented from agriculture and animal husbandry both, resulting in migration to cities in search of a livelihood and a descent into poverty, 80% of street beggars in India are Muslims.,
A large section of Indian Muslim women have taken up prostitution to survive and the red light areas of Indian cities are packed with Muslim women.

Muslims are an unwanted minority in India so their fate is defined.
It is sobering for Pakistanis to remember that a generation back we were equally minorities in a "greater India ".

 

[colonel rajesh]

We know the Hindu rashtra doesn't care.
That is exactly what the Muslims in the OP are trying to say.

that is propaganda .

 

[colonel rajesh]

My informal survey points to most Muslims saying that things are not fine, and yet you insist things are fine.

For the last 70 years Muslims have endured riots, sufferings, state sponsored pogroms, incarceration, discrimination, but Sanghis keep insisting things are fine - because according to them, this is how Muslims should be treated.

muslims should try to do their duty as a patriotic citizen of india , they have all rights in hindu raj . if you have anything to say firstly improve life of minorities in pakistan.

 

[Lincoln]

NIce juice story but can we get the source or just a Fantasy "drama and story"?

I have some Indian Muslim friends as well. They have lost all sense of nationalism, and patriotism, and don't consider India as home. They have mean words for the BJP as well.

Do you think this is unexpected?
I mean, just look at what's going on in India.

1. When someone blasphemes, the majority of Hindu people there support them and hurl abuses at Muslims.
2. People abuse Islam, speak ill about it, and their religious leaders consider it an 'internal threat.'
3. They do so openly, without consideration of others.

Do you think this will produce a welcome'd response?

Indian Muslims find their identity solely with religion now, the sense of national identity doesn't really remain. I would go as far as to say that Indian Muslims are way, way, more religious and religiously superstitious than Pakistani people.

A pretty hopeless situation for them. They need a leader they can rally under and be able to represent themselves politically, because despite having 15% in the population, their representation never crossed 10% in the parliament, and is at 5% right now, and even if they do reach 15%, what's the point; they're not the majority, their concerns hold no weight. This is the issue with the Indian political system, doesn't work well when your leaders are a bunch of religious extremist bigots.

muslims should try to do their duty as a patriotic citizen of india , they have all rights in hindu raj . if you have anything to say firstly improve life of minorities in pakistan.

I want you to visit TOI, or just generally, go do a survey in India. See how Hindu people feel about Muslims in 2020, you will have your answer.

Do you also feel patriotic when the rest of the country fucks with your beliefs without contempt?

You guys need to cut the bullcrap. You're living in a state of denial with your head way up your ***.