Moeed Pirzada is right: Pakistan's problem is education

[CriticalThought]

I am creating this thread just to highlight the importance of this issue, and simply to lend whatever weight my own voice holds behind the conclusion in the video in this post:

New world order , FATF and India

But I can tell the Pakistani army is clueless on political objectives of war. true , decades ago not any more. Pakistan military in recent times have done very well and coodinated well with political leadership. I saw no major flaws in the manner they conducted them selves.. unlike Indian...

defence.pk

Pakistan's educated elite become so enamored with the West, that they consider Pakistan's success in blindly following Western diktat - to the extent that they are quite happy to exist as a B country under Indian hegemony.

On the other hand, the people who seek independence and stature for Pakistan also have a strong Islamic bent, and they hold no intellectual currency.

The result: there is no such thing as a carefully crafted and intellectually robust existential philosophy of Pakistan. I am coining the term 'existential philosophy' of a country to mean the set of ideals that power the people's aims and ambitions which they collectively strive to achieve, thus making their own mark upon the world and creating a unique identity which leads to an increased stature amongst nations.

It is true that Pakistan was formed in the name of Islam, but can we present an intellectually robust case for it? In a world where the UN tells you how to manage the coronavirus pandemic, where your religious scholars either have no clue that some coronavirus vaccines contain actual human stem cells whose progenitors were originally sourced from an aborted human fetus, or they do not have the power and authority to say anything against it, you simply cannot say that Pakistan can defend Islam as its existential philosophy.

The 'existential philosophy' needs to be defended by people who have been taught independence of thought from childhood along with deep knowledge of Islamic beliefs and practices which they observe diligently in their own lives. They must be pious, fear Allah, and understand the modern world we live in. It is not enough to achieve a 100% literacy rate. We need an education system, that creates people with a strong sense of Pakistani identity, who can intellectually defend it, and be ready to face the onslaught coming from all sides with the power of science, technology, creativity, and innovation.

This is more important than Project Azm. It is more important than the nuclear program. This is a matter of Pakistan's existence. Without it, I fear the day when Pakistan shall be no more.

 

[Genghis khan1]

Pakistan problem is restrictive society where kids are discouraged to inquire or ask questions. From day #1 children are taught to shut up
And follow. Anyone that don’t follow gets punished.

Here in western schools and Universities, professors and curriculum provide tool and force students to think and solve problems on their own. Students in Pakistan are spoon feed answers, and shortcut to score max points on exams. There is No fundamental brain grooming and development that take place.


What moeed pirzada is talking about is the not
Just the evolution of education system but also it’s failure to develop thinking and reasoning capabilities in all recent generations.

Frankly both religious or secular education sector failed. I have a school friend, who is employed in Islamabad by MoD in a ThinkTank capacity. That guy is book smart, can quote you things from historical and political science books, but totally naive when it comes to understanding the bigger picture they present and and the western mindset and the system. For example; to him IK should have acted on TLP demands because it would sent strong messages and apparently French would have start shitting their pants. Now this is the failure moeed pirzada trying to point out.

 

[Silverblaze]

Disagree.

Actual reason is governance. A bad educational system is only a symptom of bad governance.

The problem is neither western knowledge nor eastern philosophy. These are just pretexts to hide the true failures of Pakistan's bureaucratic system which has been governed by all types of people be it religious or not religious.

Example: Just 3 trillion rupees were 'misspent' according to AGP in the power sector alone.

Power division misspent Rs3tr, points out AGP

The audit is based on financial accounts for fiscal year 2018-19 — the first year under the PTI government.

www.dawn.com

Soe losses are close to Rs 1.8 trillion collectively every year.

1 trillion rupees worth of smuggling is conducted every year in Pakistan and some say it is even more which causes massive damage to national kitty.

This is just financial mismanagement at federal level. At provincial and city level it is even worse.

You cant produce world beaters and leaders when you cant govern.

 

[Goenitz]

This is more important than Project Azm. It is more important than the nuclear program. This is a matter of Pakistan's existence. Without it, I fear the day when Pakistan shall be no more.

I have stated same that we are wasting our FSc/Metric students, we need to 'export' them so that they are not left out from technology cycle. As we cannot build the infrastructure and gather human resources to educate our pupils to the international standard. The sector can be science, social sciences, laws, technology, etc.. we are behind in every sphere.

Anyway, that OP piece has already been shared...

Here in western schools and Universities, professors and curriculum provide tool and force students to think and solve problems on their own. Students in Pakistan are spoon feed answers, and shortcut to score max points on exams. There is No fundamental brain grooming and development that take place.


What moeed pirzada is talking about is the not
Just the evolution of education system but also it’s failure to develop thinking and reasoning capabilities in all recent generations.

You are right but it is not a mindset but we lack quality researchers who can analyse/synthesise the data/results. Then evaluate to create new products. it is not all about trend, social behaviour but about capacity..

Look at our losses at Water tribunal or in RiqoDik case... we need to advance in everything.. and we cannot unless we understand/grasp new knowledge/development in that field.

 

[CriticalThought]

Disagree.

Actual reason is governance. A bad educational system is only a symptom of bad governance.

The problem is neither western knowledge nor eastern philosophy. These are just pretexts to hide the true failures of Pakistan's bureaucratic system which has been governed by all types of people be it religious or not religious.

Example: Just 3 trillion rupees were 'misspent' according to AGP in the power sector alone.

Power division misspent Rs3tr, points out AGP

The audit is based on financial accounts for fiscal year 2018-19 — the first year under the PTI government.

www.dawn.com

Soe losses are close to Rs 1.8 trillion collectively every year.

1 trillion rupees worth of smuggling is conducted every year in Pakistan and some say it is even more which causes massive damage to national kitty.

This is just financial mismanagement at federal level. At provincial and city level it is even worse.

You cant produce world beaters and leaders when you cant govern.

I remember reading in Dawn that somewhere within the Finance ministry, an IMF appointed person makes Pakistan's budget. The Finance Secretary doesn't make it, the Finance Minister doesn't make it. But when it is presented, it is called the government's budget.

Why do you think Pakistan isn't a member of FATF today? Let us sit back and analyze. Around the world, there are thousands of bodies being formed all the time. Most of them are completely useless. But some, like FATF, have a high impact. How do you know which ones are important? You need a bureaucracy that is able to create rapport with professionals and counterparts around the world, without becoming mental slaves. Unfortunately, in Pakistan, 'creating rapport' in the eyes of our educated elite means becoming just like them. They learn English to become brown skinned English men. They wear Western clothes to become servants of their colonial masters.

We need people who can use English as a weapon. Who adopt Western clothes to intermingle, purely for learning what's going around in the world. But then they come back and plan according to Pakistan's independent best interests. This requires a 'Pakistani ideology'. Today, our educated elite have bought the Western ideology wholesale. We have an ideological battle to win.

Now, here is the thing. These very same slaves will become an hurdle towards realizing this aim. All it takes is for the enemies within to join ranks and declare 'Disagree'. These are traitors of Pakistan, and I have been flagging them everywhere and will keep flagging them in the future as well.

 

[Path-Finder]

Sadly I have seen Pakistani educated jahil too!

 

[CriticalThought]

I have stated same that we are wasting our FSc/Metric students, we need to 'export' them so that they are not left out from technology cycle. As we cannot build the infrastructure and gather human resources to educate our pupils to the international standard. The sector can be science, social sciences, laws, technology, etc.. we are behind in every sphere.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is mental slavery. So Mr Goenitz, if that is all that you have, I would advise you to shut up. You have already publicly stated "We can't do this". But this 'we' is a reflection of yourself and how helpless you feel. Kindly take your helplessness to the sideline.

Anyway, that OP piece has already been shared...

And I explicitly stated in OP that I am creating this thread for a reason. I have actually provided the link to the other thread on the forum to acknowledge this.

View attachment 761207
You are right but it is not a mindset but we lack quality researchers who can analyse/synthesise the data/results. Then evaluate to create new products. it is not all about trend, social behaviour but about capacity..

Look at our losses at Water tribunal or in RiqoDik case... we need to advance in everything.. and we cannot unless we understand/grasp new knowledge/development in that field.

Read about the International Baccalaureate system of education. It is a system that has been devised not just to impart knowledge, but to enable children to acquire knowledge. There is a set of underlying skills, which if you learn in childhood, you will excel in any field you choose.

But Pakistan's problems are not just lack of skills. There is also the element of our international enemies joining together to create problems for us. This requires a re-think of foreign policy such that economy and military power give strength to our foreign policy.

The State of Pakistan has failed to recognize this. What we are seeing in terms of Foreign Policy today is reminiscent of the 80s. It is clear that an intellectual rot has set in the bureaucracy who are behind the times. And it is the same case with the politicians, including Imran Khan. Listen to the language of your Prime Minister. He sounds like a third grade kid writing an essay about his life's ambitions. Which is why we need a re-think of our entire educational system.

 

[Goenitz]

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is mental slavery. So Mr Goenitz, if that is all that you have, I would advise you to shut up. You have already publicly stated "We can't do this". But this 'we' is a reflection of yourself and how helpless you feel. Kindly take your helplessness to the sideline.

Sure, by 'we' means whosoever has the same idea.

And I explicitly stated in OP that I am creating this thread for a reason. I have actually provided the link to the other thread on the forum to acknowledge this.

I saw that, and that link had already good discussion so suggested to merge that.

Read about the International Baccalaureate system of education. It is a system that has been devised not just to impart knowledge, but to enable children to acquire knowledge. There is a set of underlying skills, which if you learn in childhood, you will excel in any field you choose.

That is the skill to learn. Nonetheless, I stated that many times we compete western world somewhat till metric level. Failure starts later as we have huge professor/researchers shortage besides monetary issues..

But Pakistan's problems are not just lack of skills. There is also the element of our international enemies joining together to create problems for us. This requires a re-think of foreign policy such that economy and military power give strength to our foreign policy.

The enemies will always be there. If they can rob us 'legally' by signing highly biased contracts, they will do that; besides, immoral looting like by bribing/sabotaging etc

Listen to the language of your Prime Minister. He sounds like a third grade kid writing an essay about his life's ambitions

At least he has great ideas and visions.. Oratory matters, be delivering the message matters most.. He shd be more diplomatic, anyway.

 

[TNT]

After Independence Pakistan was left to the loyal servants of brits. All those families that were loyal servants of brits and spying for them and fighting for them against freedom fighters became rulers. Pakistan govt accepted british land records and thus those british chamchas became our elite and ruling class. So it is obvious they will not be loyal to Pakistan but the westerners and will happily accept becoming B or even C team living as loyal servants of others, its in their DNA. We need true nationalists, honorable and loyal Pakistanis to lead Pakistan govt and military and then we maybe able to become truly independent.

 

[khansaheeb]

which they observe diligently in their own lives. They must be pious, fear Allah, and understand the modern world we live in. It is not enough to achieve a 100% literacy rate. We need an educa

Pakistan problem is restrictive society where kids are discouraged to inquire or ask questions. From day #1 children are taught to shut up
And follow. Anyone that don’t follow gets punished.

Here in western schools and Universities, professors and curriculum provide tool and force students to think and solve problems on their own. Students in Pakistan are spoon feed answers, and shortcut to score max points on exams. There is No fundamental brain grooming and development that take place.


What moeed pirzada is talking about is the not
Just the evolution of education system but also it’s failure to develop thinking and reasoning capabilities in all recent generations.

Frankly both religious or secular education sector failed. I have a school friend, who is employed in Islamabad by MoD in a ThinkTank capacity. That guy is book smart, can quote you things from historical and political science books, but totally naive when it comes to understanding the bigger picture they present and and the western mindset and the system. For example; to him IK should have acted on TLP demands because it would sent strong messages and apparently French would have start shitting their pants. Now this is the failure moeed pirzada trying to point out.

brain grooming

I have stated same that we are wasting our FSc/Metric students, we need to 'export' them so that they are not left out from technology cycle. As we cannot build the infrastructure and gather human resources to educate our pupils to the international standard. The sector can be science, social sciences, laws, technology, etc.. we are behind in every sphere.

Anyway, that OP piece has already been shared...

View attachment 761207
You are right but it is not a mindset but we lack quality researchers who can analyse/synthesise the data/results. Then evaluate to create new products. it is not all about trend, social behaviour but about capacity..

Look at our losses at Water tribunal or in RiqoDik case... we need to advance in everything.. and we cannot unless we understand/grasp new knowledge/development in that field.

Good teachers motivate, inspire and provide carrots of learning to their pupils who become greedy for knowledge.

 

[Goenitz]

Good teachers motivate, inspire and provide carrots of learning to their pupils who become greedy for knowledge.

motivation and confidence..
Motivation can be instilled by positive/negative reinforcements, or other techniques.
Confidence is given by friendliness, encouragement and letting/'forcing' them to explore/apply.

That is the game.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Pakistan's only problem is non-enforcement of law and lack of accountability. As they say Danda peer hai bigrayan da

Sadly I have seen Pakistani educated jahil too!

 

[Silverblaze]

I remember reading in Dawn that somewhere within the Finance ministry, an IMF appointed person makes Pakistan's budget. The Finance Secretary doesn't make it, the Finance Minister doesn't make it. But when it is presented, it is called the government's budget.

Why do you think Pakistan isn't a member of FATF today? Let us sit back and analyze. Around the world, there are thousands of bodies being formed all the time. Most of them are completely useless. But some, like FATF, have a high impact. How do you know which ones are important? You need a bureaucracy that is able to create rapport with professionals and counterparts around the world, without becoming mental slaves. Unfortunately, in Pakistan, 'creating rapport' in the eyes of our educated elite means becoming just like them. They learn English to become brown skinned English men. They wear Western clothes to become servants of their colonial masters.

We need people who can use English as a weapon. Who adopt Western clothes to intermingle, purely for learning what's going around in the world. But then they come back and plan according to Pakistan's independent best interests. This requires a 'Pakistani ideology'. Today, our educated elite have bought the Western ideology wholesale. We have an ideological battle to win.

Now, here is the thing. These very same slaves will become an hurdle towards realizing this aim. All it takes is for the enemies within to join ranks and declare 'Disagree'. These are traitors of Pakistan, and I have been flagging them everywhere and will keep flagging them in the future as well.

Who is stopping Pakistanis from thinking about their own national interests?

Why every govt whether right wing left wing, civil or military has failed to reform the system?

Why do Chinese, Russians and even Iranians and Turks fare better than Pakistanis in thinking about national interests?

The answer is simple. Look busy, do nothing. The whole nation follows this trend and the result is mediocre leadership and a demoralized nation.

The Chinese are beating the west at their own game. Why? Turkey has developed so much why? China suffered a century of humiliation and Turkey was divided and today they are rising powers.

The Chinese are nationalists and so are the turks. They are decision makers and work hard and make the best of the situation given to them.

People who refuse to introspect and claim victim hood will never be able to challenge the west as they are incompetent and the real bane of Pakistan allied to hindutvadis and should be tried for treason.

Its is Allah SWT's promise Laisa lil insana illa ma sa'a" - Aur Insaan ko milta wohi hain jiski usne koshish ki.

Pakistan has every potential to become a major islamic power house and effectively challenge hindutva and others. But its leadership, its bureaucracy and its people willingly embrace corruption which is a sure shot ticket to hell according to islamic teachings. Hence the result is what we see now.

 

[CriticalThought]

Who is stopping Pakistanis from thinking about their own national interests?

Why every govt whether right wing left wing, civil or military has failed to reform the system?

Why do Chinese, Russians and even Iranians and Turks fare better than Pakistanis in thinking about national interests?

The answer is simple. Look busy, do nothing. The whole nation follows this trend and the result is mediocre leadership and a demoralized nation.

The Chinese are beating the west at their own game. Why? Turkey has developed so much why? China suffered a century of humiliation and Turkey was divided and today they are rising powers.

The Chinese are nationalists and so are the turks. They are decision makers and work hard and make the best of the situation given to them.

People who refuse to introspect and claim victim hood will never be able to challenge the west as they are incompetent and the real bane of Pakistan allied to hindutvadis and should be tried for treason.

Its is Allah SWT's promise Laisa lil insana illa ma sa'a" - Aur Insaan ko milta wohi hain jiski usne koshish ki.

Pakistan has every potential to become a major islamic power house and effectively challenge hindutva and others. But its leadership, its bureaucracy and its people willingly embrace corruption which is a sure shot ticket to hell according to islamic teachings. Hence the result is what we see now.

And the solution is a carefully planned education system that is freely available to all.

 

[Goenitz]

Its is Allah SWT's promise Laisa lil insana illa ma sa'a" - Aur Insaan ko milta wohi hain jiski usne koshish ki.

And the solution is a carefully planned education system that is freely available to all.

1. Certainly we can do everything like other nations as we have the same IQ.
Yes we need more coherent nationhood bonds like Turkey/China. Look at their national language. Everyone speaks the same with different dialect. That one 'bond' is harder to achieve in our case (nationhood) but we should work towards it. Plus they learn in their own language, so easy to universalise education.

2. The solution is we need training. Like our armed forces get international standard training, and get an edge on adversary. So we need to our educators/engineers learn first western modern techniques then we can apply them locally, according to our needs.