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Modi's Expensive Penchant for Made-In-Videsh [Rafale]

magudi

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Modi bought himself the most expensive ticket ever sold for a cruise on the river Seine - a cool 5,000 million dollars to buy 36 Rafale aircraft in 'fly-away' condition to get the President, Prime Minister, and Defence Minister of France, plus the Mayor of Paris, to beam at the cameras as he chugged up the river. No wonder they were beaming. They had just sold a lemon to the Prime Minister of the country that has emerged as the world's largest buyer of imported arms.

Of course, we need fighter aircraft. The Indian Air Force estimates that we need 42-44 squadrons to fight a two-front war, but have only 34-35 squadrons operational at the moment, with every danger of the number of squadrons diminishing to 25 by the end of this decade. Particularly in mid-range, the shortage is acute. So what the defence procurement-wallahs call a 'Request for Proposal', which the more illiterate of us call a 'tender', was put out some years ago for Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA). Six bids were received. The UPA government determined that the French Rafale was the best because the French supplying company, Dassault, offered to supply 18 Rafale aircraft in 'fly-away' condition and then transfer the technology for us to 'Make in India' the remaining 126. Dassault baulked, however, at the suggestion that they should stand guarantee for the quality of Rafale aircraft made by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL). Meanwhile, prices shot up to make the whole deal worth 20 to 30 thousand million dollars, up from the earlier estimate of about $12 billion, and, therefore, on reflection, not perhaps the cheapest of the bids.

In comes Modi and upsets the apple cart. Without even informing his Defence Minister (whom he had neglected to have accompany him to Paris) and without consulting the Cabinet Committee on Security, Modi, of his own sweet will, terminates years of negotiations aimed at 'Make in India' to signal that he prefers fighter aircraft which are 'Make in Videsh'. No negotiations are held - that is left to a future date - but to get himself surrounded by a beaming French political elite, he saves a foreign company, Dassault, that is teetering on the brink of bankruptcy, by unilaterally and without consulting his experts or political colleagues placing an order for $5 billion worth of aircraft.

The number of aircraft being imported from France under this sweetheart deal will form approximately two squadrons, which still leaves us hugely short of the eight to ten additional squadrons that our air force chaps believe we need. Worse, our brave lads in the sky have to deal with the complication of an eighth type of aircraft to our already hugely diverse and therefore unwieldy fleet. Our security has not been enhanced one whit. 'Make in India' has been sacrificed. And the decision has been taken without due consultation. The deal makes no sense.

It also completely contradicts the approach to defence self-reliance outlined in Modi's own address at the Aero India Show in February, just two months before he took off for France. Then, he had said, "A nation with a strong defence industry will not only be more secure, it will reap rich economic benefits. It can boost investment, expand manufacturing, support enterprise, raise the technology level and increase economic growth in the country". That is precisely why our defence experts were negotiating a deal with Dassault under which a few sample aircraft would have been manufactured in France and the rest made in India. Modi sabotaged that effort in Paris. Why? What induced him to abandon the slogan of a lifetime - Make in India - just to curry favour with his Parisian hosts? Is India's defence a bargaining chip to be pulled out of Modi's pocket like a conjuring trick?

And what of the defence offsets that were being negotiated with Dassault? And that too after having declared at the air show that "I want our offsets policy...to acquire state-of-the art technology and skills in core areas of priority". Why were the defence offsets cast aside in so cavalier a manner when the Prime Minister bought, of his own volition and own sweet will, two entire squadrons of Rafales without getting any defence offsets - that is 'Make in India' - in return?

Where is the investment boost? The manufacturing expansion? The support to enterprise? And raising the technology level? Modi said at the air show, "Even a 20 to 25 per cent reduction in imports could directly create an additional 100,000 to 120,000 highly skilled jobs in India". Is even one job going to be created in India by buying $5 billion worth of aircraft from France? Modi added, "There would be a clear preference for equipment manufactured in India". Oh, yeah? Is even one Rafale screw going to be manufactured in India? Modi also said, "From sellers, foreign firms must turn into strategic partners". How does giving up on the French firm's promise to 'Make in India' turn Dassault into a "strategic partner"?

And if it is a straightforward trade deal, on what basis has Modi decided that he could not get an equal or even larger number of similar or superior aircraft from other manufacturers at a much lower price? After all, apart from Egypt, no one else has bought a single Rafale. Brazil cancelled its order. It is alleged, with considerable confidence, that Rafale is not a fuel-efficient aircraft and its estimated lifetime costs make it an economic disaster: "the hidden costs of the Rafale project could bankrupt future defence budgets" is one such dire prediction. Did Modi evaluate this before his spontaneous combustion in Paris? Does he possess the professional competence to make such an evaluation on his own?

Specifically, did not Modi recall the problems we have been having with France over the Scorpene submarine deal? As Admiral Arun Prakash (Retd), who was involved with the French Scorpene, has remarked in an article published in the aftermath of Modi's Rafale deal, "Obviously, there is need for caution when dealing with French firms." Did Modi exercise the required abundant caution? Is this the way to run Defence?

Modi's Expensive Penchant for Made-In-Videsh
 
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Fuc in UPA did nothing to solve the problem faced by MMRCA .All they did was to sit on that .And moron likely AK Antony will go down in the history as Great Bum of All times if war to happen today . Presstitutes can go to hell. If this deal was not concluded we still be in doldrum of MMRCA which entered a loop you MORONS .

To user who posted it : Please specify its THE NDTV article .So many won't waste their time by reading all the crap and later fed up to know .its from THE NDTV piece HF Shi@ttt

Modi bought himself the most expensive ticket ever sold for a cruise on the river Seine - a cool 5,000 million dollars to buy 36 Rafale aircraft in 'fly-away' condition to get the President, Prime Minister, and Defence Minister of France, plus the Mayor of Paris, to beam at the cameras as he chugged up the river. No wonder they were beaming. They had just sold a lemon to the Prime Minister of the country that has emerged as the world's largest buyer of imported arms.

Of course, we need fighter aircraft. The Indian Air Force estimates that we need 42-44 squadrons to fight a two-front war, but have only 34-35 squadrons operational at the moment, with every danger of the number of squadrons diminishing to 25 by the end of this decade. Particularly in mid-range, the shortage is acute. So what the defence procurement-wallahs call a 'Request for Proposal', which the more illiterate of us call a 'tender', was put out some years ago for Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA). Six bids were received. The UPA government determined that the French Rafale was the best because the French supplying company, Dassault, offered to supply 18 Rafale aircraft in 'fly-away' condition and then transfer the technology for us to 'Make in India' the remaining 126. Dassault baulked, however, at the suggestion that they should stand guarantee for the quality of Rafale aircraft made by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL). Meanwhile, prices shot up to make the whole deal worth 20 to 30 thousand million dollars, up from the earlier estimate of about $12 billion, and, therefore, on reflection, not perhaps the cheapest of the bids.

In comes Modi and upsets the apple cart. Without even informing his Defence Minister (whom he had neglected to have accompany him to Paris) and without consulting the Cabinet Committee on Security, Modi, of his own sweet will, terminates years of negotiations aimed at 'Make in India' to signal that he prefers fighter aircraft which are 'Make in Videsh'. No negotiations are held - that is left to a future date - but to get himself surrounded by a beaming French political elite, he saves a foreign company, Dassault, that is teetering on the brink of bankruptcy, by unilaterally and without consulting his experts or political colleagues placing an order for $5 billion worth of aircraft.

The number of aircraft being imported from France under this sweetheart deal will form approximately two squadrons, which still leaves us hugely short of the eight to ten additional squadrons that our air force chaps believe we need. Worse, our brave lads in the sky have to deal with the complication of an eighth type of aircraft to our already hugely diverse and therefore unwieldy fleet. Our security has not been enhanced one whit. 'Make in India' has been sacrificed. And the decision has been taken without due consultation. The deal makes no sense.

It also completely contradicts the approach to defence self-reliance outlined in Modi's own address at the Aero India Show in February, just two months before he took off for France. Then, he had said, "A nation with a strong defence industry will not only be more secure, it will reap rich economic benefits. It can boost investment, expand manufacturing, support enterprise, raise the technology level and increase economic growth in the country". That is precisely why our defence experts were negotiating a deal with Dassault under which a few sample aircraft would have been manufactured in France and the rest made in India. Modi sabotaged that effort in Paris. Why? What induced him to abandon the slogan of a lifetime - Make in India - just to curry favour with his Parisian hosts? Is India's defence a bargaining chip to be pulled out of Modi's pocket like a conjuring trick?

And what of the defence offsets that were being negotiated with Dassault? And that too after having declared at the air show that "I want our offsets policy...to acquire state-of-the art technology and skills in core areas of priority". Why were the defence offsets cast aside in so cavalier a manner when the Prime Minister bought, of his own volition and own sweet will, two entire squadrons of Rafales without getting any defence offsets - that is 'Make in India' - in return?

Where is the investment boost? The manufacturing expansion? The support to enterprise? And raising the technology level? Modi said at the air show, "Even a 20 to 25 per cent reduction in imports could directly create an additional 100,000 to 120,000 highly skilled jobs in India". Is even one job going to be created in India by buying $5 billion worth of aircraft from France? Modi added, "There would be a clear preference for equipment manufactured in India". Oh, yeah? Is even one Rafale screw going to be manufactured in India? Modi also said, "From sellers, foreign firms must turn into strategic partners". How does giving up on the French firm's promise to 'Make in India' turn Dassault into a "strategic partner"?

And if it is a straightforward trade deal, on what basis has Modi decided that he could not get an equal or even larger number of similar or superior aircraft from other manufacturers at a much lower price? After all, apart from Egypt, no one else has bought a single Rafale. Brazil cancelled its order. It is alleged, with considerable confidence, that Rafale is not a fuel-efficient aircraft and its estimated lifetime costs make it an economic disaster: "the hidden costs of the Rafale project could bankrupt future defence budgets" is one such dire prediction. Did Modi evaluate this before his spontaneous combustion in Paris? Does he possess the professional competence to make such an evaluation on his own?

Specifically, did not Modi recall the problems we have been having with France over the Scorpene submarine deal? As Admiral Arun Prakash (Retd), who was involved with the French Scorpene, has remarked in an article published in the aftermath of Modi's Rafale deal, "Obviously, there is need for caution when dealing with French firms." Did Modi exercise the required abundant caution? Is this the way to run Defence?

Modi's Expensive Penchant for Made-In-Videsh
 
. .
Well we had two options
1. Sit on our backside for a few more years, just like the previous govt did for eight years, and let the air force wither away
Or
2. Go for a stop gap, the only one possible - fgfa and lca mk 2 are not yet ready, any other mmrca such as gripen would be even more controversial.

What Modi did illustrated exactly why he got elected. Leaders don't "deliberate" for years, they take decisions.

As for make in India, that will happen. In 3 years we will know exactly the status on lca, fgfa. if development on both turn out to be slow, then we can put up an assembly line to make 100-150 more Rafales. Or we might decide to focusing manufacturing lca mk 2 which looks to be turning into a pretty decent jet.
 
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Mani Shankar Aiyer- OMG... looks like Raul baba has issued a diktat on earning thier keep for spineless congress leaders.

True, but in this case the essence is correct!

- 36 fighters by far not enough for the IAF requirement
- no industrial benfits, which is one of the prime points of the whole tender
- personal and hectic decision of the PM, not in the line of 1 year of NDA policy in that tender, which only benfitted him during the visit

Well we had two options
1. Sit on our backside for a few more years, just like the previous govt did for eight years, and let the air force wither away

You do realize that the DM's Jaitley and Parrikar did everything to finish the negotiations with Dassault, just as Antony did since the shortlisting and that they all faced the same problems with Dassault right?
So what the PM did was not contrary to UPA policy, but also to his own party policy and his DM's!

What Modi did illustrated exactly why he got elected. Leaders don't "deliberate" for years, they take decisions.

Then why did he waited 1 long year to do this during the visit in France? He could had taken the same decision after the election last year and we already could had signed the deal for the 36 at least right?
His government wouldn't had to waste months in negotiations with Dassault officials, following all the bureaucratic procedures of the tender (complying to offset and ToT requirements, which DM Jaitley passed)...
That alone shows how silly this decision was, but what makes it worse is, that he put India in the weak position of having only Rafale as the option now and that while the DM Parrikar was outlining the MKI as an alternative and when the IAF made it clear that other MMRCAs would be ok for them too.
If he at least would have taken the decision to ask the 2 shortlisted vendors for an offer for 36, India would have 2 options now, but even that chance was missed although he was visiting Germany too.

He was not elected to take any decision, but to take the right decisions for India and in this case he clearly took the wrong once!
 
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True, but in this case the essence is correct!

- 36 fighters by far not enough for the IAF requirement
- no industrial benfits, which is one of the prime points of the whole tender
- personal and hectic decision of the PM, not in the line of 1 year of NDA policy in that tender, which only benfitted him during the visit

Where was Mr Aiyer's concern in procuring Mig29M, Mirage 2000, and Mig29K's with zero industrial benefit?

Where was Mr. Aiyer brilliant analysis during policy paralysis of the UPA regime?

Why did MoD accept PLM costs to declare Rafale L1 without a penalty clause?

What experience did MoD/IAF have to evaluate Product Life Cycle costs?

What was UPA DM's role to fast track LCA, Arjun, Kamorta, Kolkatta?

Where was Mr. Aiyers scathing opinion on Augusta Westland, Tatra - Vectra, Recovery Vehicles?

Why was not a single Arty gun procure in last 10 years of glorious regime of the UPA?
 
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The Congress took a very long time (10 years) to do nothing on the fighter front. Modi has made a stop gap purchase after giving the MMRCA negotiations 1 more year, which led nowhere.

Id rather have Modis government in charge of defence over the sit on your hands do nothing St. Anthony.
 
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French are famous for rewarding such agreements and modi is no angel, he doesn't even have a wife and French chicks are quite seductive :P
 
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Where was Mr Aiyer's concern in procuring Mig29M, Mirage 2000, and Mig29K's with zero industrial benefit?

Where was Mr. Aiyer brilliant analysis during policy paralysis of the UPA regime?

Why did MoD accept PLM costs to declare Rafale L1 without a penalty clause?

What experience did MoD/IAF have to evaluate Product Life Cycle costs?

What was UPA DM's role to fast track LCA, Arjun, Kamorta, Kolkatta?

Where was Mr. Aiyers scathing opinion on Augusta Westland, Tatra - Vectra, Recovery Vehicles?

Why was not a single Arty gun procure in last 10 years of glorious regime of the UPA?
url.png


French are famous for rewarding such agreements and modi is no angel, he doesn't even have a wife and French chicks are quite seductive :P
Ab jaane bhi dijiye Janaab, yeh sab naujawano key kaam hai
bilawalMS0501a_468x372.jpg


On Topic:
Mr Iyer has conveniently forgotten that it was IAF that cleared Rafale and not any government. What if there was a UPA 3 in power today and had to take a call on the situation of acquiring fighters in urgency, i assume they would have (or forced to) done the same.
Final price figures are still not out on what France has offered India, but if it is at a much lower price than tender bid price, i guess this is the best possible solution. Yes there is no ToT, but then again the price is lower and so is quantity. & whats more it allows flexibility in future to get more squadrons on favorable terms or may be look for a different option.
 
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View attachment 221111


Ab jaane bhi dijiye Janaab, yeh sab naujawano key kaam hai
View attachment 221113

On Topic:
Mr Iyer has conveniently forgotten that it was IAF that cleared Rafale and not any government. What if there was a UPA 3 in power today and had to take a call on the situation of acquiring fighters in urgency, i assume they would have (or forced to) done the same.
Final price figures are still not out on what France has offered India, but if it is at a much lower price than tender bid price, i guess this is the best possible solution. Yes there is no ToT, but then again the price is lower and so is quantity. & whats more it allows flexibility in future to get more squadrons on favorable terms or may be look for a different option.

Not likely UPA 3 at anthony at helm would've waited little more , then some more, thereafter a little longer,with no truce in sight they'd extend the waiting again , next thing you know 2019 elections are up
 
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Dassault Rafale is a French high tech aero product .Crucial to their strategy and industry .They wont give us full ToT whatever it is.
Means we cant ensure full ToT for our industry even if we give them 30 billiin $.
Congress govt should have been consider this fact.Instead they hanged on Rafale without any clear policy.
And IAF is now facing below 30 squadron level.
When the NDA took the power damage was already done by previous 10 years rule of UPA.
Modi and his team didnt have any choice.So they did this courageous decision.
Does this retard Mani Shankar or any other have any viable choice instead of Rafale that can meet IAF requirements?
MK2 is still a few years away and FGFA is still in design.
Su 30 has limitations.
Congress ruled 60 years this nation.Except that Nehru and Krishnamenon no othrrs did anything for the growth of aeroindustry in India.
So we dont have an industry that can take a project like Rafale.

Peoples are arguing with some stupid points and playing with the future of IAF .


For us NDA govt did a nice job .At least helpful for clear some gap.
 
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Modi bought himself the most expensive ticket ever sold for a cruise on the river Seine - a cool 5,000 million dollars to buy 36 Rafale aircraft in 'fly-away' condition to get the President, Prime Minister, and Defence Minister of France, plus the Mayor of Paris, to beam at the cameras as he chugged up the river. No wonder they were beaming. They had just sold a lemon to the Prime Minister of the country that has emerged as the world's largest buyer of imported arms.

Of course, we need fighter aircraft. The Indian Air Force estimates that we need 42-44 squadrons to fight a two-front war, but have only 34-35 squadrons operational at the moment, with every danger of the number of squadrons diminishing to 25 by the end of this decade. Particularly in mid-range, the shortage is acute. So what the defence procurement-wallahs call a 'Request for Proposal', which the more illiterate of us call a 'tender', was put out some years ago for Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA). Six bids were received. The UPA government determined that the French Rafale was the best because the French supplying company, Dassault, offered to supply 18 Rafale aircraft in 'fly-away' condition and then transfer the technology for us to 'Make in India' the remaining 126. Dassault baulked, however, at the suggestion that they should stand guarantee for the quality of Rafale aircraft made by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL). Meanwhile, prices shot up to make the whole deal worth 20 to 30 thousand million dollars, up from the earlier estimate of about $12 billion, and, therefore, on reflection, not perhaps the cheapest of the bids.

In comes Modi and upsets the apple cart. Without even informing his Defence Minister (whom he had neglected to have accompany him to Paris) and without consulting the Cabinet Committee on Security, Modi, of his own sweet will, terminates years of negotiations aimed at 'Make in India' to signal that he prefers fighter aircraft which are 'Make in Videsh'. No negotiations are held - that is left to a future date - but to get himself surrounded by a beaming French political elite, he saves a foreign company, Dassault, that is teetering on the brink of bankruptcy, by unilaterally and without consulting his experts or political colleagues placing an order for $5 billion worth of aircraft.

The number of aircraft being imported from France under this sweetheart deal will form approximately two squadrons, which still leaves us hugely short of the eight to ten additional squadrons that our air force chaps believe we need. Worse, our brave lads in the sky have to deal with the complication of an eighth type of aircraft to our already hugely diverse and therefore unwieldy fleet. Our security has not been enhanced one whit. 'Make in India' has been sacrificed. And the decision has been taken without due consultation. The deal makes no sense.

It also completely contradicts the approach to defence self-reliance outlined in Modi's own address at the Aero India Show in February, just two months before he took off for France. Then, he had said, "A nation with a strong defence industry will not only be more secure, it will reap rich economic benefits. It can boost investment, expand manufacturing, support enterprise, raise the technology level and increase economic growth in the country". That is precisely why our defence experts were negotiating a deal with Dassault under which a few sample aircraft would have been manufactured in France and the rest made in India. Modi sabotaged that effort in Paris. Why? What induced him to abandon the slogan of a lifetime - Make in India - just to curry favour with his Parisian hosts? Is India's defence a bargaining chip to be pulled out of Modi's pocket like a conjuring trick?

And what of the defence offsets that were being negotiated with Dassault? And that too after having declared at the air show that "I want our offsets policy...to acquire state-of-the art technology and skills in core areas of priority". Why were the defence offsets cast aside in so cavalier a manner when the Prime Minister bought, of his own volition and own sweet will, two entire squadrons of Rafales without getting any defence offsets - that is 'Make in India' - in return?

Where is the investment boost? The manufacturing expansion? The support to enterprise? And raising the technology level? Modi said at the air show, "Even a 20 to 25 per cent reduction in imports could directly create an additional 100,000 to 120,000 highly skilled jobs in India". Is even one job going to be created in India by buying $5 billion worth of aircraft from France? Modi added, "There would be a clear preference for equipment manufactured in India". Oh, yeah? Is even one Rafale screw going to be manufactured in India? Modi also said, "From sellers, foreign firms must turn into strategic partners". How does giving up on the French firm's promise to 'Make in India' turn Dassault into a "strategic partner"?

And if it is a straightforward trade deal, on what basis has Modi decided that he could not get an equal or even larger number of similar or superior aircraft from other manufacturers at a much lower price? After all, apart from Egypt, no one else has bought a single Rafale. Brazil cancelled its order. It is alleged, with considerable confidence, that Rafale is not a fuel-efficient aircraft and its estimated lifetime costs make it an economic disaster: "the hidden costs of the Rafale project could bankrupt future defence budgets" is one such dire prediction. Did Modi evaluate this before his spontaneous combustion in Paris? Does he possess the professional competence to make such an evaluation on his own?

Specifically, did not Modi recall the problems we have been having with France over the Scorpene submarine deal? As Admiral Arun Prakash (Retd), who was involved with the French Scorpene, has remarked in an article published in the aftermath of Modi's Rafale deal, "Obviously, there is need for caution when dealing with French firms." Did Modi exercise the required abundant caution? Is this the way to run Defence?

Modi's Expensive Penchant for Made-In-Videsh



mani-shankar-aiyar-tea-stall-funny-cartoon-images.jpg






kehna-kya-chahte-ho-3-idiots-dialogues-memes.jpg
 
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Sancho and Mani Shankar Aiyer think alike :D

Daal mei kala ki Kali daal ? :P
 
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Not likely UPA 3 at anthony at helm would've waited little more , then some more, thereafter a little longer,with no truce in sight they'd extend the waiting again , next thing you know 2019 elections are up
:p:
Well i meant IF THEY DECIDED TO DO ANYTHING.
But yes i guess we all agree that given the tendency to flow with current, too much was left undone, that has now become a serious malice (not just defence other sectors too). In this context the urgency shown by this government is praise-worthy. In several cases it has meant changing the official stand taken (indigenous manufacturing, ToT etc) but under the circumstances, it is the best course of action.
My only worry on the issue is that the number getting stuck to 36, it is too little. Hope it is a case of purchasing in small batches keeping year on year expenditure in control.

Does this retard Mani Shankar or any other have any viable choice instead of Rafale that can meet IAF requirements?
Thats what i too found funny.
If he wanted to write a meaningful analysis, he should have mentioned what was Plan B?
IMHO in these matters Mr. Iyer is an Arm chair expert at best.
 
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