MODI cleared Ishrat Murder

[Bang Galore]

I m not impressed. He is a typical arm chair theoretician with zero real world awareness and who thinks he can preach to all and sundry. And as for his knowledge of the criminal laws and working of the Government...his family background does not seem to have enlightened him much as I know a bit about these things myself.

Hardly an arm chair "theoretician"...His own defence exposure is plenty extensive. As is his knowledge. I sometimes disagree with his positions but questioning his knowledge or his real world awareness is pushing it a bit too far.

Sorry! ... his rank or whatever does not impress me much as it is these liberal phonies who have brought our nation to such a pass..

That is an odd & a harsh position to take. This particular case can be seen from different angles, all of them would be valid. My own position would be different from JS's but I would not question the validity of his argument. It's just not one I agree with.What you see depends on what glasses you wear but no one is free from biases. Not you, not me either (though on matters of national security, I'm as realistic as I think is possible).

 

[Omtatsat]

1. His age is mere claims and speculation. This is an anonymous internet forum.

2. In Mahabharata Arjuna was asked to kill his Guru, Bheeshma Pitamaha ...and many more. That is also an Indian value system. We fight for what is right, its not about who is more older.

Let us not get too carried away with who the person is rather than what the person says or represents.

What next ? more decorum if someone claims to be Brahmin ?

Thanks! You made me see the light...

Bhisma pitamah...here I come...

 

[Omtatsat]

Hardly an arm chair "theoretician"...His own defence exposure is plenty extensive. As is his knowledge. I sometimes disagree with his positions but questioning his knowledge or his real world awareness is pushing it a bit too far.






That is an odd & a harsh position to take. This particular case can be seen from different angles, all of them would be valid. My own position would be different from JS's but I would not question the validity of his argument. It's just not one I agree with.What you see depends on what glasses you wear but no one is free from biases. Not you, not me either (though on matters of national security, I'm as realistic as I think is possible).

I m very sure he has no personal knowledge of the defense establishment...only snippets obtained from "uncles" I say this because I too have quite a few defense connections, and I know the general mindset of the officers.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

I think knowing what we know now, at the time they were killed there were no real doubts that these were jihadis.

Why take them into custody and waste the time and money of the country on trying them and run the risk of them going free later on technicalities? Send them on their way post haste.

I don't take decisions on whether a person is a terrorist or not. Unlike casual people I take this judgement VERY seriously and leave it to courts. The rest of it is BS. No one decides how the system is supposed to function and whether tax payers money is well spent or not. Only the courts have the authority to decide that- if it takes money and time for the courts to take that decision, that money has to be spent. Some forummer like you doesn't have a say in that.

 

[Omtatsat]

I don't take decisions on whether a person is a terrorist or not. Unlike casual people I take this judgement VERY seriously and leave it to courts. The rest of it is BS. No one decides how the system is supposed to function and whether tax payers money is well spent or not. Only the courts have the authority to decide that- if it takes money and time for the courts to take that decision, that money has to be spent. Some forummer like you doesn't have a say in that.

It is not for Pakistanis to tell us what to do with terrorists...

 

[Guynextdoor2]

With all due respect, this is cherry picking. The IB was aware that they had passed on information that resulted in deaths of those individuals at the hands of the Gujarat police. It doesn't matter if the officer involved himself "further", senior officials of the IB knew. Heard the IB complaining about it? To anyone? Not one of them have backtracked on their claims with even retired IB officers pointing out that terrorists will often get dealt with, in this manner. It would be extraordinarily cussed to assume that the Gujarat police who were supposedly hunting for some innocent girl of the minority community to be killed would suddenly find a gift dropped in their lap by the IB. Surely you of all people recognise that there must be something more here than meets the eye.

Dude, the question is not whether they were terrorists or not- the question is why, despite plenty of opportunities to take them in, they were not taken in. It is the courts that need to decide if the person is a terrorist or not, not the IB.

It is not for Pakistanis to tell us what to do with terrorists...

Yeah...well it's not for @##holes like you to decide what to do with terrorists.

Well then my internet warrior .... I then become your internet Sarathy.

The battle between Internet Hindus v/s the secularist ? .....the Maha-forum wars.....

Like I said, why don't you do a duet- two @$$holes working together will be in an interesting thing to watch indeed.

 

[Omtatsat]

Dude, the question is not whether they were terrorists or not- the question is why, despite plenty of opportunities to take them in, they were not taken in. It is the courts that need to decide if the person is a terrorist or not, not the IB.





Yeah...well it's not for @##holes like you to decide what to do with terrorists.

Only Indians...even @##holes will decide... not false flag foreign pretenders who hide their identities.

Do not feed the false flag trolls......

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Good question. Why didn't the IB ask the Maharashtra police to arrest them before they came to Gujarat ? IB is a central organisation. If the actions of the state police are taken as the actions accorded permission by the CM of Gujarat, then logic hold that the Union Home Minister & the PM should be held accountable for the actions of IB personnel. There is no logic to the argument that the IB didn't understand what was happening, what would happen with the information given by them. If the CBI is to be believed, the IB officer helped plant the weapons at the site of the "encounter". Since the IB director has voiced his support for the officer concerned, it must be assumed that the IB as an organisation was involved in the operation. The "Buck" then stops at the HM & PM's door if the wish is to see the actions of the Gujarat police as reflecting on the CM there.

Btw, it would be very interesting to ask what happened to the assassin supposedly sent by Dawood Ibrahim to take out Kasab. It seems common knowledge that he was interdicted by Indian intelligence but what became of him? Don't see a court case anywhere....

I would definitely ask that question. I would also ask, if Gujarat police had first hand knoledge of the movements, why didn't they approach the mumbai police? They DEFINITELY had the information, it is unclear if mumbai police had it right? You cannot deny that the dramatic political impact of being targeted and being seen as a hero would have played high on the Modi establishmen's mind right? Whatever the inefficiencies IB may have shown, a murder is wayyyy more important for the modi establishment than an arrest. That's why these people were killed.

 

[Omtatsat]

Shooo..... Pakistani false flagger. Have you no shame ?

Oh come on!!! shame and his job do not mix... After all, all this per post payment....

Me thinks this Chakravyuh has many Mayavi false flag Rakshasas..... time to go hunting.

 

[Android]

In Pictures: How the Ishrat Jahan fake encounter case could unfold | The UnReal Times

 

[Bang Galore]

I don't take decisions on whether a person is a terrorist or not. Unlike casual people I take this judgement VERY seriously and leave it to courts. The rest of it is BS. No one decides how the system is supposed to function and whether tax payers money is well spent or not. Only the courts have the authority to decide that- if it takes money and time for the courts to take that decision, that money has to be spent. Some forummer like you doesn't have a say in that.

That is an extreme liberal position to take. The real world usually does not allow always for your kind of logic to work. There is a reason the AFSPA exists. There is a reason soldiers sometimes shoot assuming the presumption of guilt(as opposed to the legal one of innocence), there is a reason that intelligence agencies do not allow for complete scrutiny. Not just in India, the drone attacks by the U.S. happen & Guantanamo bay exists. Some times things are more complicated than what we can imagine.

If the Ishrat Jahan case was an oddity, it might be logical to take this position. However India is not a stranger to such cases & the attention directed towards this particular incident reeks of political chicanery, even at the expense of national security. That ought not to be acceptable to anyone, regardless of their political affiliation.

 

[Bang Galore]

I would definitely ask that question. I would also ask, if Gujarat police had first hand knoledge of the movements, why didn't they approach the mumbai police? They DEFINITELY had the information, it is unclear if mumbai police had it right? You cannot deny that the dramatic political impact of being targeted and being seen as a hero would have played high on the Modi establishmen's mind right? Whatever the inefficiencies IB may have shown, a murder is wayyyy more important for the modi establishment than an arrest. That's why these people were killed.

Unless you know exactly what IB told the Gujarat police, it would be very difficult to jump to conclusions. Since the IB hasn't backed off from their part in the matter, it is fair to surmise that the threat was deemed real & relevant enough to work with the Gujarat police and neutralise the threat. Whether that helped Modi's cause or not is irrelevant, the question is whether there was a basis for the actions of the Gujarat police. The legal position is different but in the public mind, if those killed were terrorists, they are not about to get any sympathy. Nobody after all sheds any tears for all the foreign terrorists that are neutralized by the Indian army who accept no surrender from their type.

 

[Omtatsat]

That is an extreme liberal position to take. The real world usually does not allow always for your kind of logic to work. There is a reason the AFSPA exists. There is a reason soldiers sometimes shoot assuming the presumption of guilt(as opposed to the legal one of innocence), there is a reason that intelligence agencies do not allow for complete scrutiny. Not just in India, the drone attacks by the U.S. happen & Guantanamo bay exists. Some times things are more complicated than what we can imagine.

If the Ishrat Jahan case was an oddity, it might be logical to take this position. However India is not a stranger to such cases & the attention directed towards this particular incident reeks of political chicanery, even at the expense of national security. That ought not to be acceptable to anyone, regardless of their political affiliation.

Things have come to such a pass that the CBI is threatening to investigate how the IB came to know that Ishrat Jahan was a terrorist. Can you imagine its implications. The IB would have got the tipoff through a web of informers, some of whom would be undercover operatives who have infiltrated terrorist organization. You can imagine that besides unimaginable risk to the national security, how many operative's lives are going to be compromised, and to say nothing of the serious setback to intelligence efforts. And all this for a terrorist?

Running behind pakistanis and their posts is a waste of time. Best to put them in your ignore list.......or not if you like the entertainment.

All work and no play...really ruins your day...

 

[Guynextdoor2]

That is an extreme liberal position to take. The real world usually does not allow always for your kind of logic to work. There is a reason the AFSPA exists. There is a reason soldiers sometimes shoot assuming the presumption of guilt(as opposed to the legal one of innocence), there is a reason that intelligence agencies do not allow for complete scrutiny. Not just in India, the drone attacks by the U.S. happen & Guantanamo bay exists. Some times things are more complicated than what we can imagine.

If the Ishrat Jahan case was an oddity, it might be logical to take this position. However India is not a stranger to such cases & the attention directed towards this particular incident reeks of political chicanery, even at the expense of national security. That ought not to be acceptable to anyone, regardless of their political affiliation.

I'm not a soldier man. I'm just a forumer and you know just as much as I do. I don't think suspending judgement is 'unrealistically' liberal in this- no one is gonna ask us anyway.

Unless you know exactly what IB told the Gujarat police, it would be very difficult to jump to conclusions. Since the IB hasn't backed off from their part in the matter, it is fair to surmise that the threat was deemed real & relevant enough to work with the Gujarat police and neutralise the threat. Whether that helped Modi's cause or not is irrelevant, the question is whether there was a basis for the actions of the Gujarat police. The legal position is different but in the public mind, if those killed were terrorists, they are not about to get any sympathy. Nobody after all sheds any tears for all the foreign terrorists that are neutralized by the Indian army who accept no surrender from their type.

Again, I do not take away any right of agencies to shoot/ kill in self defense. All i'm saying is that self defense doesn't seem to be a motivatinf factor since there were no bullets fired from the other side.

 

[Dillinger]

@Bang Galore You're entering the pit too? Point less discussions ranging over 14 damn pages.