Modern Day Slavery: The exploitation of Qatar's migrant workers

[Mosamania]

While you are probably right that on the whole American doctors might probably be better, it would surprise you that in some fields, Indian doctors would be a much better choice. For example, if one needed coronary bypass surgeries or pediatric heart surgery, you would probably be better off seeing a doctor in India than one in the U.S. Not because the Indian doctor is naturally better but because both he & his team is likely to be vastly more experienced than any doctor & team in the U.S. The sheer volume of cases they deal with sharpens their skills to very high levels. Some Indian doctors do more surgeries in a year than many American/Western doctors would do in the course of their entire practice.

The nationality of the Doctor has no baring on the qualification of said doctor, I am a doctor and I worked with almost all nationalities, there are good and bad doctors from everywhere, I met very bad American doctors and extremely brilliant Pakistani and Egyptian doctors. Where the doctor received their education contributes very little to their qualifications. Although I agree that doctors trained in the western standard are far superior to those trained on the eastern standard though.

Dude,

same qualifications on paper? LOL.

I don't know about Arab world, but you do know that in Pakistan--the surgery exam (FCPS) is standardized training program EXACT SAME as Western European one--and even the books for FCPS comes from United Kingdom. Right?

I know people very close in my family who took FCPS exam in Pakistan..struggled to clear it...but did it. And then went on to take U.K MRCS surgery exam (the highest degree of medicine U.K can offer)..and their remarks were "Compared to FCPS, MRCS is a piece of cake" ....I'm not kidding.

Pakistani Surgeons with certified FCPS surgery degree are no less than U.K surgeons...because both degrees are exact same thing with exact same books/training/materials/procedures.

FCPS = Fellow of college of Physicians and Surgeons (Pakistan)

MRCS = Member of Royal College of Surgeons (United Kingdom).

You know the funny thing? : My father had BOTH of the above degrees and he still got paid less than "whites" who were under-qualified than him and he was actually their supervisor (I am not kidding. Literally. My father had people working UNDER him who got the "Western package" and got paid more. My father worked under "Pakistani package" whose pay was less. Even with the top European degree, my father didn't qualify for "Western package" because he wasn't white by birth and his package remained lower than less-experienced whites. Although Western surgery degree gave him a good bump in salary lol)



You see, the only problem here is that I know Saudi system more than many Saudis here themselves. Stop making excuses for Saudia. I don't criticize them. Their country, their rules. But stop trying to pretend as if Saudis do not take whites as their gods and that Saudi's policies are rational.

There is clear crystal discrimination in Saudi Arabian system against non-whites. Whites are considered superior just for being from a certain geographical area. And Saudis don't even hide it. They admit it openly.

@Hyperion might wanna look at this post.

Although I agree with the first part of your post, the second part is hogwash. The reason why Pakistani doctors don't get paid as big a salary as western doctors is because the Pakistani degree is not EU or American recognized, this is why Pakistani doctors have to take further exams in US and EU. On the other hand Saudi Board is recognized by US and EU countries as equal to their own boards, Saudi doctors can just go there and apply for a job and take the license exam and their good to go.

 

[Mosamania]

Now speaking on the subject, I do agree that corporations take advantage of foreign workers, and Gulf states are not doing enough from a rights stand point in fear that these companies that bring a considerable amount of income to the state will stop doing so, so they are pressured not to take action. Foreign workers rights must be made clear and not just left in paper in a drawer somewhere.

 

[Bang Galore]

The nationality of the Doctor has no baring on the qualification of said doctor, I am a doctor and I worked with almost all nationalities, there are good and bad doctors from everywhere, I met very bad American doctors and extremely brilliant Pakistani and Egyptian doctors. Where the doctor received their education contributes very little to their qualifications. Although I agree that doctors trained in the western standard are far superior to those trained on the eastern standard though.

Agree except for where the doctor received his education bit. I believe that makes a substantial difference since getting into & sustaining in a top notch institution is not easy (institutions specific, not country specific). True in India certainly. Top notch government institutions & a select few of the private institutions produce, by far, the best quality of doctors. The disparity between them & others can be huge. The question that is raised is to what extent quality control exists. In that alone, western countries are probably better. Standards are far more even in the west than in some of the developing countries.

 

[Mosamania]

Agree except for where the doctor received his education bit. I believe that makes a substantial difference since getting into & sustaining in a top notch institution is not easy (institutions specific, not country specific). True in India certainly. Top notch government institutions & a select few of the private institutions produce, by far, the best quality of doctors. The disparity between them & others can be huge. The question that is raised is to what extent quality control exists. In that alone, western countries are probably better. Standards are far more even in the west than in some of the developing countries.

I did say in my post that western standard medical institution give by far the best scientific based medical education.

 

[Fahad Khan 2]

The passports are taken from you, that's right. However, you can as per the law quit anytime you want but you get to pay the fine of the termination of the contract first which you signed and agreed on it's terms before. Nobody can force you to work against your will.

Anyway, I agree Indians and South Asians in general live in inhumane conditions. I was shocked when I knew that cleaning workers get 250 SAR/month.


This is an obvious lie man. I live and work there. The contract is automatically terminated as soon as you don't get your monthly salary in the 3rd month and you can transfer your sponsorship to any other employer you want.

I respect your opinion but that's all truth written above there is difference between law and its implementation... My father work in immigration and I can quote many such stories but that's not mean everything is bad.....

 

[Ahmad1996]

The nationality of the Doctor has no baring on the qualification of said doctor, I am a doctor and I worked with almost all nationalities, there are good and bad doctors from everywhere, I met very bad American doctors and extremely brilliant Pakistani and Egyptian doctors. Where the doctor received their education contributes very little to their qualifications. Although I agree that doctors trained in the western standard are far superior to those trained on the eastern standard though.



Although I agree with the first part of your post, the second part is hogwash. The reason why Pakistani doctors don't get paid as big a salary as western doctors is because the Pakistani degree is not EU or American recognized, this is why Pakistani doctors have to take further exams in US and EU. On the other hand Saudi Board is recognized by US and EU countries as equal to their own boards, Saudi doctors can just go there and apply for a job and take the license exam and their good to go.

Not only doctors, engineers and every field face this discrimination. Western people are paid more even if they and the Eastern person have the same qualification, talking about Qatar here. I lived in Qatar for a long time, I was born there so I know a lot about it. Exploitation was taught to these people by Indians and some Pakistanis and Bangladeshis. The workers you people talk about they are brought here by their own country men, the Qataris were never like this. When I was young the same Qataris use to stop and ask us to give me a lift to mosque or anywhere you are going. These same people used to give every kid eidi in the mosques. But everything changed how? Well we taught them, the thing we called "Badmashi" was taught to them by Pakistanis, first gangs and every stupid crap was made by us. Exploitation was taught by Indians. In the end we are to blame, but I hope Qataris wake up and all these issues are addressed.

 

[Hyperion]

@al-Hasani, could be voice of reason here....... let's summon him.............

@Mosamania - I totally disagree with you on the qualification part of docs in Arab states. Same crap happens to Engineers with Western degrees and Pakistani / Indian passports, all over the Gulf. We, however, aren't talking about wage-disparity in white collar jobs.

@JUBA, dude, you are a borderline-racist. Change yourself before it becomes part of your character.

 

[ResurgentIran]

@al-Hasani, could be voice of reason here....... let's summon him.............

@Mosamania - I totally disagree with you on the qualification part of docs in Arab states. Same crap happens to Engineers with Western degrees and Pakistani / Indian passports, all over the Gulf. We, however, aren't talking about wage-disparity in white collar jobs.

@JUBA, dude, you are a borderline-racist. Change yourself before it becomes part of your character.

JUBA is the dude doing the beating in this video. lol

 

[anHuman]

I'm just stating the truth, sick of lies

I'm a Sunni i don't do Taqiyya, that's your thing not mine.

Gaza is next door instead Hezbollah is busy killing innocent people in Syria

Sunni do more Tqiyya than any other sects ....

you are doing Taqiyya when you said " I'm a Sunni i don't do Taqiyya, that's your thing not mine. "

there is so much hadith in your Sahih that recommended you to Taqiyya ,

 

[Hyperion]

LMFAO...... maybe him, maybe some bedouin cousin of his!

JUBA is the dude doing the beating in this video. lol

 

[wolfschanzze]

Yes they know, and they choosed to come with their free will.

Even if they wanted to go back, the passaports are seized and kept with employers why is that?
Why do the employers seize passaports when they land?
this doesn't happen in any country around the world .

 

[wolfschanzze]

White that live in KSA normally work in high jobs such as doctors, engineers, Etc, you'll hardly find South Asians qualified to do these jobs, most of them are work as taxi drivers, in grocery stores, street cleaning, Etc... So the pay depends on the job


You never know, there's lots of twisted people out there.

Most expat doctors in middle east are from India,Pakistan and south east asia not white western doctors,Only a few western doctors work in Middle east. their pay for a south east asian doctor is less when compared with the same qualified white western doctor even there are reports of their passaports being taken away and some put in jails for no reason, if such things happen to educated doctors then god help those poor labourers. The medical councils and their websites say that.Don't hide facts.
The dark side of Dubai - Johann Hari - Commentators - The Independent
Arab racism against Indians and Pakistanis

 

[wolfschanzze]

It's a special occasion, therefore I'm trying to restrain myself.

If only Pakistan kept out the wahabi ideology out and forget about fighting each other India and Pakistan, our people wouldn't have to go through this sort of treatment.Life goes a full circle as they say earlier the arabs used to come to India to trade and now we go there, With Clean and green energy projects and Hydrogen fuel cells we can stop exporting oil, which will greatly increase our self sufficiency and then they will come here to trade as in olden times.

 

[wolfschanzze]

The nationality of the Doctor has no baring on the qualification of said doctor, I am a doctor and I worked with almost all nationalities, there are good and bad doctors from everywhere, I met very bad American doctors and extremely brilliant Pakistani and Egyptian doctors. Where the doctor received their education contributes very little to their qualifications. Although I agree that doctors trained in the western standard are far superior to those trained on the eastern standard though.



Although I agree with the first part of your post, the second part is hogwash. The reason why Pakistani doctors don't get paid as big a salary as western doctors is because the Pakistani degree is not EU or American recognized, this is why Pakistani doctors have to take further exams in US and EU. On the other hand Saudi Board is recognized by US and EU countries as equal to their own boards, Saudi doctors can just go there and apply for a job and take the license exam and their good to go.

USA needs a medical degree from a WHO certified Medical Institution.
Even Indian Medical Universities are Recognized by US and EU countries as equal to their own boards.
Just like Indians and Pakistanis have to take the same USMLE exam, even Saudi Arabian Doctors have to pass USMLE exam and then get ECFMG Certification and go through the same process as International Medical Graduates.
http://photos.state.gov/libraries/jeddah/125789/PDFs/SaudiArabiaConnectionsIssue2Summer2011_2_.pdf

 

[Mosamania]

@Mosamania - I totally disagree with you on the qualification part of docs in Arab states. Same crap happens to Engineers with Western degrees and Pakistani / Indian passports, all over the Gulf. We, however, aren't talking about wage-disparity in white collar jobs.

I totally disagree I worked in the US as well as KSA, if they made me choose between an American doctor and a Saudi doctor, I'd pick a Saudi doctor everytime. Med-Schools in KSA is a lot more arduous and laborious compared to US ones. And it is A LOT more inclusive than US ones which branches early.

USA needs a medical degree from a WHO certified Medical Institution.
Even Indian Medical Universities are Recognized by US and EU countries as equal to their own boards.
Just like Indians and Pakistanis have to take the same USMLE exam, even Saudi Arabian Doctors have to pass USMLE exam and then get ECFMG Certification and go through the same process as International Medical Graduates.
http://photos.state.gov/libraries/jeddah/125789/PDFs/SaudiArabiaConnectionsIssue2Summer2011_2_.pdf

The US recognition was made in 2013, where the Saudi board is now considered equal to an American Board. You can research that yoruself. Of course everyone has to take USMLE, even US students have to take USMLE and go through all the steps, however Saudi doctors don't need to go through the whole shpeal doctors from other countries go through.