Model Islamic State

[ARSENAL6]

Turkey,Indonesia because they are most democratic and secular.

Turkey was famous to ban the hijab on the head- A Muslim custom for ladies to protect their modesty - a choice taken away from Muslim women due to the pressure of western seculaism
And Indonesia is not an Islamic state.

 

[dabong1]

Thanks for taking the time out to list this.. Many of these wars have absolutely nothing to do with Democracy being the cause of war. Some are political uprising in the country by people who want change in regime, some civil wars, border conflicts, land conflicts, colonialism etc.

If only you could use the same yardstick when it comes to islam and find a hundred and one excuses not to blame islam but the actual reason like you seem to to have found when it comes to wars fought for democracy, liberalism and atheism.......The US said that it wanted to spread democarcy in iraq and inflicted harm on millions to spread this vile corrupt secular ideology that you support. "democarcy" "freedom" "regime change".......wordplay.

Its people like Zaid Hamid who spew bullshit and nonsense like Democracy, liberalism and secularism has been the reason for millions and millions of death in the past two hundred years. I can't believe that shmuck has the audacity to come on TV and talk nonsense

There you go again coming out with excuse after excuse for the deaths Democracy, liberalism and secularism have caused.......well all the wars you blame on faith where also just civil wars, border conflicts, land conflicts and have nothing to do with religion......does the excuse wash?

 

[Unbeliever]

Democracy, Secularism and liberalism are not the cause of a single one of these wars listed on page 3 and to claim that they are responsible is ridiculous and ignorant.
You are engaging in the logical fallacy known as Correlation does not imply causation

Furthermore never in history has there been a war or even a violent conflict of any sort for "Atheism", which wouldn't even make any sense since it is like a war for "non-astrology" or "non-vodoism". Atheism is the rejection of certain theological claims, it in itself does not contain any philosophical concepts, which is why many Atheists today refer to themselves additionally as humanists.
Don't forget all of you are Atheists when it comes to Christianity, Buddhism, Zeus, Thor, Scientology and so forth.. I just go one religion further..

But back to the motivators for conflicts.
That correlation does not automatically imply causation of course does not mean that there aren't any ideologies that actually are among the main motivators for war, genocide or injustice. One has to examine each ideology on itself to see if there was an actual causation.

For example, to claim that the "National Socialism" ideology had nothing to do with Germany starting the Second World War is of course idiotic. While the ideology itself was a result of circumstance and oppurtunity it was of course one of the main motivators for the war and especially for the holocaust.
Likewise it can be argued from the concepts of religious superiority, that many monotheistic religions contain(certainly the three Abrahamitic ones), that they were among the main motivators for the Muslim conquests in the 6th and 7th century or the antisemitism in Christianity until the early 20th century.
The many wars fought for the city of Jerusalem throughout human history are among the best examples, since they have always been about scripture and temples etc. = religion.

See, although the USA is a Secular, Democratic and liberalist country, none of these has anything to do with them waging war in Iraq. However one could certainly argue capitalism and definately neo-conservatism played a part in ideological motivation for that war. That Bush claimed to "bring democracy" was propaganda and while there might be a democracy of sorts over time (altough I remain very skeptical in that area) that does not mean that the concept of democracy was what caused the Bush Administraton to go to war...

One observation, that you can challenge if you want, is that the ideologies mainly responsible for many millions of deaths (religion, facism(especially totalitarianism), imperialism etc.) have one thing in common: Dogma (often including a form of tribalism) and a lack of skeptical iquiry.

In conclusion let me say that it is of course correct to point out that political motives(like territory, resources etc.) are also very important and play an equal role especially in modern wars and conflicts, but that does not eliminate the role of ideologies.

Whereever the speculation over your interpretation of a "Model Islamic State" might lead you, a "Model State"(in the sense of an optimal state) should certainly not embrace dogma of any kind and support skeptical inquiry in all areas of life and society. That is why liberalism, secularism and democracy are such a succesfull combination, because they foster pluralism. The best ground for ideas and progress in all areas.

 

[Al-zakir]

Which of the following can be said to be a model Islamic State working in accordance with Islamic principles and moving in right direction towards peace, prosperity, glory and greatness or at least has the potential to do so in near future -

(in no particular order)

1. Saudi Arabia
2. Iran
3. Pakistan
4. UAE
5. Egypt
6. Malasiya
7. Indonesia
8. Turkey

Are you mad? Turkey power structure based on pure secularism. where is the thought of Islamic state come from?

 

[Durran3]

@Unbeliever

Bravo mate!! very well thought out and well written response I was about to write exactly what you've written but you've done it in a more articulate manner.

I recommand you check out Jonathan Miller's Three Part A History of Disbelief if you have time. He covers every basic thing you can possibly imagine. Its a great documentary, brilliant, informative and has a very academic approach.

1) Shadows of Doubt'"
2)Noughts and Crosses"
3) The Final Hour"

Each one is 60 minutes do check it out.