MoD trying to make up for lost time

[Agent_47]

.......and here is another Indian Army fan boy out to teach the bloody civilians a lesson.

If the needs have become "critical" then the Def forces have already failed in their job, do they do not get to point fingers at others or demand things to cover up their incompetency.

What does this statement even mean ? does it mean we have failed in every project we have ever taken considering LCA,kavari,arihant,scorpian etc hell even GSLV is late !. "Army fanboys"?! Not a single deal is for army in my previous reply.
@Abingdonboy you are right he is dumb !

When the P75I is in the RFI stage, how can the RFP be out ?

 

[Abingdonboy]

@Abingdonboy you are right he is dumb

I'm not saying he is dumb mate, that would be unfair and harsh. I am just stating that IF what he is saying is true the NDA/MoD are being beyond stupid and incredibly short-sighted. Thankfully, I am almost certain his opinion is unfounded.

 

[Makaramarma]

Well this is entirely contradicted by the evidence. The CH-47F, AH-64E, M777, A330 MRTT and S-70B are all urgent procurements that are needed ASAP to replace ancient equipment. So you are saying the GoI would compromise the present day needs of the armed forces to further their own political agenda (Make in India)?

If EVERYTHING is Urgent, then Nothing is urgent.

Prove to me otherwise.

Why do I need to disprove your opinion ?

On the defence front the NDA govt has entirely failed to live up to expectations:

No M777s
No CH-47Fs
No AH-64Es
No A330 MRTTs
No more C-17s
No S-70Bs
No MGSs
No SOCOM
No Aerospace command
No Cyber command
No OROP
No LHD/LDP
No FICV
etc etc

Who's expectations ? they have very well lived up to my expectations.

Foreign goods given low priority.

Govt gets cracking on three new tri-Service commands - The Times of India

Manohar Parrikar has directed the integrated defence staff (IDS), which is headed by a three-star general and deals with tri-Service issues, to "work out and fine-tune" the "basic structures" for the Cyber, Aerospace and Special Operations Commands.

"The detailed notes for the three commands, with presentations and timelines, have already gone up and down between the IDS and MoD a couple of times. It will take another year or so for the commands to be created," said a source.

OROP in the pipeline.

RFP for LHD released.

FICV is delayed because of incompetence of the def. forces since they drafted a poor RFP.

Barriers Impede Revival of Indian Vehicle Project

India's attempt to revive its homemade Future Infantry Combat Vehicle (FICV) project, worth more than $10 billion, is unlikely to succeed because the defense industry views the selection criteria as subjective and rules covering intellectual property rights will raise objections from overseas partners, analysts said.

I will let them off the hook with the Rafale because they have moved forward with this.

Thank god for small mercies. LOL.

Now tell me what their successes have been?

All you need to do is use google.

In the First year itself the govt. cleared proposals worth 1 Lakh Crore .... i.e. 15.6 Billion $.

In first year, Modi government cleared defence proposals worth Rs 1 lakh crore - The Economic Times

Then they cleared proposals worth 30,000 Crores till date i.e. 5 Billion $.

Government clears defence proposals worth Rs 30,000 crore, to buy four P8I maritime patrol aircraft - The Economic Times

i.e. a total of 20 Billion $ worth of Defence proposal cleared ........ and you aks what have they done till date.

hahaha "for whatever reasons"? How about because the MoD and GoI have sat on their backsides so long that the price submitted by Sikorsky 4 years ago cannot be valid indefinitely and that too after Sikorsky have agreed to extend the price validity almost a dozen times! This is what happens when you have inept and painfully slow procurement system, you cannot blame Sikorsky for this situation. The NDA MoD would have been aware of this situation a year ago but STILL have not signed for this much needed helo, this is inexcusable in my opinion.

LOL..... they why blame the NDA for the Congress govt. mess ?

A 300% hike in cost cannot be accepted blindly as it will negate the L1 clause. So much for your "opinion".

This Govt likes to pretend they are tough guys and take defence seriously but when you have PLA(N) subs probing into India's backyard (IOR) the IN is sending their BILLION USD destroyers and cutting edge ASW Corvettes to sea with EMPTY HANGERS or with ancient Sea Kings they hardly look anything but weak! Is this situation is acceptable to you?

Considering the IN has chosen to do so, I assume the IN consider this the best way forward.

Except many of the above deals have had DAC clearance but it is the CCS and or the Fin Min who are now sat idle on these deals. Once a deal has DAC clearance it should be signed within a few weeks or months at the most, now the DAC is churning out clearances but nothing is moving- this is a clear failure on the GoI's part.

LOL....... sure ...the FM is just a rubber stamp. They should clear every demand of the forces ........ otherwise its failure of the govt. Rubbish.

What does this statement even mean ? does it mean we have failed in every project we have ever taken considering LCA,kavari,arihant,scorpian etc hell even GSLV is late !. "Army fanboys"?! Not a single deal is for army in my previous reply.
@Abingdonboy you are right he is dumb !

LOL.....if you cannot even figure out simple statements, then you need to get back to school.

No point in whining about your limited capacity.

I am least bothered what kind of fan boy you are ...... army, navy or Airforce. I have same level of contempt for all.

So I am still waiting for the reason your precious IN has not released the RFP for P-75I .......... do tell us Agent Vinod.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Foreign goods given low priority.

Even if this comes at the cost of the pressing needs of the armed forces? Genius!

OROP in the pipeline.

And it has been for how long now? Decades.

All you need to do is use google.

In the First year itself the govt. cleared proposals worth 1 Lakh Crore .... i.e. 15.6 Billion $.

In first year, Modi government cleared defence proposals worth Rs 1 lakh crore - The Economic Times

Then they cleared proposals worth 30,000 Crores till date i.e. 5 Billion $.

Government clears defence proposals worth Rs 30,000 crore, to buy four P8I maritime patrol aircraft - The Economic Times

i.e. a total of 20 Billion $ worth of Defence proposal cleared ........ and you aks what have they done till date.

This is exactly what I have been cribbing about! $20BN USD deals CLEARED (by DAC) since May 2014 but how many of these have actually translated into tangible contracts and orders? Less than 7% I'd say. DAC clearances are nothing impressive anymore, not when the CCS is the new bottleneck.

LOL..... they why blame the NDA for the Congress govt. mess ?

A 300% hike in cost cannot be accepted blindly as it will negate the L1 clause. So much for your "opinion".

The NDA has sat on the S-70B deal for over a year now, yes they inherited a mess but they have had ample time to address it now. The S-70B deal was cleared by the DAC last year (by the NDA) and since then the GoI has sat idle on this procurement even though Sikorsky has been more than reasonable and told the GoI it is not possible to maintain the validity of a price it submitted FOUR years ago indefinitely and despite the fact the IN are crying out for new ASW helos.

Considering the IN has chosen to do so, I assume the IN consider this the best way forward.

Is this a bloody joke? The IN has "chosen" to go to sea with empty hangers because their 40+ year old Sea King fleet is NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE, they have not chosen anything, they had done their part- conduct trails and submit the results to the MoD years ago, it is the govt (successive ones) who have entirely FAILED them. The IN does know the best way forward- GIVE THEM THE BLOODY HELOS!!!

 

[Makaramarma]

Even if this comes at the cost of the pressing needs of the armed forces? Genius!

Cost to the Nation takes priority to cost to the armed forces. If you still cannot figure this out, then its no use debating further.

And it has been for how long now? Decades.

Irrelevant, this govt. has already made a commitment to implementing it, so AFTER negotiations are over, it will be implemented.

This is exactly what I have been cribbing about! $20BN USD deals CLEARED (by DAC) since May 2014 but how many of these have actually translated into tangible contracts and orders? Less than 7% I'd say. DAC clearances are nothing impressive anymore, not when the CCS is the new bottleneck.

CCS is not a bottle neck but an constitutional body which looks into far more serious matters other than Acquisition. Every buy more than a Billion $ has significant strategic value and relevance. CCS needs to do its job, not be a rubber stamp.

The NDA has sat on the S-70B deal for over a year now, yes they inherited a mess but they have had ample time to address it now. The S-70B deal was cleared by the DAC last year (by the NDA) and since then the GoI has sat idle on this procurement even though Sikorsky has been more than reasonable and told the GoI it is not possible to maintain the validity of a price it submitted FOUR years ago indefinitely and despite the fact the IN are crying out for new ASW helos.

Sikorsky has not done anybody any favour. New price will required relook at the whole process or the proposal should have made provisions for it.

Is this a bloody joke? The IN has "chosen" to go to sea with empty hangers because their 40+ year old Sea King fleet is NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE, they have not chosen anything, they had done their part- conduct trails and submit the results to the MoD years ago, it is the govt (successive ones) who have entirely FAILED them. The IN does know the best way forward- GIVE THEM THE BLOODY HELOS!!!

IN is expected to be a professional force, not a cry baby wailing that it has not been given Helos. They are expected to have an operational Plan B and a Plan C and a Plan D.

 

[Agent_47]

I'm not saying he is dumb mate, that would be unfair and harsh. I am just stating that IF what he is saying is true the NDA/MoD are being beyond stupid and incredibly short-sighted. Thankfully, I am almost certain his opinion is unfounded.

I know it is unfair. But, how can you argue with someone who is blinded by some hero figure and extreme ideology and fails to look in prospective of the end user for which the whole process is in place. On top of that he uses lame arguments to prove his point.Its better not to waste our energy arguing with him.

Cost to the Nation takes priority to cost to the armed forces. If you still cannot figure this out, then its no use debating further.

The whole nation exists in the mercy of its soldiers.
Ignoring self defence will cost the whole nation, Ask Nehru.
#ICouldntResist

 

[Makaramarma]

I know it is unfair. But, how can you argue with someone who is blinded by some hero figure and extreme ideology and fails to look in prospective of the end user for which the whole process is in place. On top of that he uses lame arguments to prove his point.Its better not to waste our energy arguing with him.


The whole nation exists in the mercy of its soldiers.
Ignoring self defence will cost the whole nation, Ask Nehru.
#ICouldntResist

Lear to follow your own advice before offering it to others ............But it seems rather obvious your type talk the walk.

The whole nation exists because it choose to exist, soldiers or no soldiers. The Soldiers OTOH do exist on the mercy of the nation and for the sole purpose of serving the nation and if required dying for the cause.

I don't need to ask a dead man what common sense dictates, it dictates that self defence is much more than just new shiny toys for the boys. But if you had the intelligence to see that, you would not be here arguing otherwise.