MOD and IAF Talk and Might say Yes to 40 more Sukhoi Su 30-MKI fighters

[$@rJen]

MOD and IAF Talk and Might say Yes to 40 more Sukhoi Su 30-MKI fighters

Indian Air Force’s 272 multirole air superiority fighter Sukhoi Su-30MKI fleet might be boosted to 312 if Ministry of Defence and Indian Air Force agree to procure 40 Su-30MKIs more Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) and as per latest media reports looking like all three parties will come to a positive consensus after a recent meeting with all concerned parties.

A Final decision will be taken by end of this year but it is most likely HAL will get a fresh contract for 40 more Su-30MKIs which they are offering at a very competitive price as the country already has required infrastructure and manpower to manufacture them without any additional cost same as previously supplied.

HAL offered to manufacture 40 Su-30MKIs which were modified to carry a Single 2.5-ton BrahMos-A under its Belly. DRDO already has planned to field an 800km ranged BrahMos-A in near future and performance of recent trials of the missile system has showcased that a Game changer weapon system like BrahMos-A can act as a shield against formidable naval adversaries while patroling Indian ocean.

Each Su-30MKIs costs Rs 425 crore each and 40 units will come to Rs 17000 crore. If the Ministry of Defence accepts the HAL proposal.

 

[Quibbler]

At 60 million a pop we might as well order another 100. That just too damn cheap for our front line fighter.

 

[Roybot]

Ye to hona hi tha. I don't think we are going to stop at 312 either.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

At 60 million a pop we might as well order another 100. That just too damn cheap for our front line fighter.

The issue with the Su-30MKI appears not to be the cost of purchase, but the cost of operating them. IAF claimed operating costs are 3x that of Western fighters.
If the CPFH for Rafale is $10k (probably more), that means the Su-30MKI CPFH = $30k.
8,000 hours x $30k = $240M for a total cost of $300M per aircraft.
Are there official figures of the Su-30MKI CPFH?

 

[Quibbler]

The issue with the Su-30MKI appears not to be the cost of purchase, but the cost of operating them. IAF claimed operating costs are 3x that of Western fighters.
If the CPFH for Rafale is $10k (probably more), that means the Su-30MKI CPFH = $30k.
8,000 hours x $30k = $240M for a total cost of $300M per aircraft.
Are there official figures of the Su-30MKI CPFH?

That is good point. Let me know if you come across a good lifetime cost analysis of any mass produced fighter jet. I would like to dwell deeper into the issue.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

That is good point. Let me know if you come across a good lifetime cost analysis of any mass produced fighter jet. I would like to dwell deeper into the issue.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...readiness-data-improves-in-2015-as-fl-421499/

https://www.ftm.nl/upload/content/f...osts White Paper FINAL 13th March 2012(1).pdf

 

[MilSpec]

The issue with the Su-30MKI appears not to be the cost of purchase, but the cost of operating them. IAF claimed operating costs are 3x that of Western fighters.
If the CPFH for Rafale is $10k (probably more), that means the Su-30MKI CPFH = $30k.
8,000 hours x $30k = $240M for a total cost of $300M per aircraft.
Are there official figures of the Su-30MKI CPFH?

First CPFH - Cost per Flight hours is not equal to life cycle cost.
CPFH can be Dry or wet, that needs to be clarified.

(Copy paste from another forum stf, credit @nick )
example:- the annual operation cost of each Gripen E would be CHF 4.64 mi (US$ 5.20 mi)/year in total, or CHF 0.955 mi (US$ 1.07 mi)/year in fuel, CHF 2.32 mi (US$ 2.60 mi)/year in maintenance, CHF 1.09 mi (US$ 1.22 mi)/year in personnel;

- using a standard calculation with 200 hours per year to obtain the Cost Per Flying Hour (CPFH), we get CHF 4.77 (US$ 5.35) thousand/hour with fuel, CHF 11.6 (US$ 13.0) thousand/hour with maintenance, CHF 5.45 (US$ 6.11) thousand/hour with personnel, giving a subtotal of CHF 16.4 (US$ 18.3) thousand/hour with fuel+maintenance, or total of CHF 21.8 (US$ 24.4) thousand/hour with fuel+maintenance+personnel.
https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/federal-gazette/2012/9281.pdf (page 9315, 9319)

For SU30 MKI, last known CPFH came from Aero India 2014 was $12000. (not known if wet or dry) Also when IAF claimed more than 3x, it was comparing the CPFH for M2K $3000, not eft or rafale,

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/indian-air-force-news-discussions.30328/page-223

If MKI's 12K number is to be taken, given there is already substantial production of spares and BRD's have sufficient supply chain to support the fleet, the total life cycle cost of MKI is further reduced.Pure price-point comparison, MKI's are an affordable paltform to add, lead time is low, there is an active production line, training and service infrastructure exists and due to a massive fleet, spares and consumables are ample. But the reality is there are enough of MKI's and without MLU and substantial 4.5th gen upgrades, it doesn't bring substantial technological advantage that the Rafale brings.

 

[Novice09]

From very credible source:

40 or 60 more MKIs... capable of carrying brahmos to keep balance with Russia... plus to maintain squadron strength of IAF...

No single engine jet will win the contract for 110 MMRCA... Either EF or Rafale will be chosen... EF was the best performing jet during last evaluation... 36 Rafale are for strategic air command... 99% chances are of EF as Germany and UK has proposed to lower the costs... also, they are ready to enhance EF as per IAF requirement...
Technology know-how would be used to upgrade the Tejas and make AMCA...

Source said that Indian government is really concerned about the sanction prone jets... to make them happy... more P8i, Apache and howitzer guns... plus some more less important defense equipment (might be anti tank missile)... 2+2 meeting would be critical to have more clarification on this...

 

[$@rJen]

From very credible source:

40 or 60 more MKIs... capable of carrying brahmos to keep balance with Russia... plus to maintain squadron strength of IAF...

No single engine jet will win the contract for 110 MMRCA... Either EF or Rafale will be chosen... EF was the best performing jet during last evaluation... 36 Rafale are for strategic air command... 99% chances are of EF as Germany and UK has proposed to lower the costs... also, they are ready to enhance EF as per IAF requirement...
Technology know-how would be used to upgrade the Tejas and make AMCA...

Source said that Indian government is really concerned about the sanction prone jets... to make them happy... more P8i, Apache and howitzer guns... plus some more less important defense equipment (might be anti tank missile)... 2+2 meeting would be critical to have more clarification on this...

EF ???? there's no way IAF will add one more vendor.... Most Probably these 40 MKIs will go to the strategic command. MOre Rafale will follow

 

[Novice09]

EF ???? there's no way IAF will add one more vendor.... Most Probably these 40 MKIs will go to the strategic command. MOre Rafale will follow

India asked for nuke capable EF but was denied by the consortium... that is why Rafale was chosen and order was placed for just 36 jets... France was having a similar feeling as you have and they did not lowered the cost of Rafale... deal scrapped by GOI by saying that we can afford just 36... contracts signed, now they want 110 more... while people make fun of this, it was well thought beforehand... deal would be signed after 2019 elections...

Last time when this guy told me about the induction of more Arjun tanks... he was accurate upto the numbers...
He also told me that the two individuals are in the race to be the governor of JnK... both have given presentations at PMO and are ex army officers from JnK... Locals will get some taste to be a part of action to hunt down the terrorists... I'm bit late, but he also told that Saheed Aurangzeb will get a medal on independence day...

One news is correct... I hope all are true...

 

[sathya]

India asked for nuke capable EF but was denied by the consortium... that is why Rafale was chosen and order was placed for just 36 jets... France was having a similar feeling as you have and they did not lowered the cost of Rafale... deal scrapped by GOI by saying that we can afford just 36... contracts signed, now they want 110 more... while people make fun of this, it was well thought beforehand... deal would be signed after 2019 elections...

Last time when this guy told me about the induction of more Arjun tanks... he was accurate upto the numbers...
He also told me that the two individuals are in the race to be the governor of JnK... both have given presentations at PMO and are ex army officers from JnK... Locals will get some taste to be a part of action to hunt down the terrorists... I'm bit late, but he also told that Saheed Aurangzeb will get a medal on independence day...

One news is correct... I hope all are true...

After the offsets and industrial capabilities built at DRAL even for the initial 36 ..

It is really is a French tender for 110.
Unless France wants to intentionally lose it.

As far as I am concerned it Rafale until it's proven otherwise

 

[punit]

40 Sukhoi with 2.5 ton of brahmos each ... That's 100 tons of deadly angry metal..!!!!

 

[KAI KAI Baloch]

At 60 million a pop we might as well order another 100. That just too damn cheap for our front line fighter.

but not so cheap on maintenance and availability rate.......... better to keep a high lo mix

 

[aman_rai0007]

Good decision... No need to stop production until Tejas production matures....
But I think this order was pre-planned...
There was a deal for 40 su 30 capable of carrying bhramos...

 

[GodToons]

India asked for nuke capable EF but was denied by the consortium... that is why Rafale was chosen and order was placed for just 36 jets... France was having a similar feeling as you have and they did not lowered the cost of Rafale... deal scrapped by GOI by saying that we can afford just 36... contracts signed, now they want 110 more... while people make fun of this, it was well thought beforehand... deal would be signed after 2019 elections...

Last time when this guy told me about the induction of more Arjun tanks... he was accurate upto the numbers...
He also told me that the two individuals are in the race to be the governor of JnK... both have given presentations at PMO and are ex army officers from JnK... Locals will get some taste to be a part of action to hunt down the terrorists... I'm bit late, but he also told that Saheed Aurangzeb will get a medal on independence day...

One news is correct... I hope all are true...

FCUK!! you have even better resources than 2 paise Delhi based journalists.. They plant bullshit based on hearsay.