MMRCA Negotiations Stalled Over Dassault-HAL Tussle: Report

[lilaspr]

It would have been much easier for india and HAL both, if they would have simply planned for SU35 and later modify it the way they did it with SU30 to SUMKI OR F18.

If you guys remember Scorpene class submarines it took like 100 years to learn tech and create infrastructure--- still not sure 2014 or 2015 or 2016 they will deliver all submarines. Same will happen with Rafale, my 2 cents, u will see FGFA in Indian colors before Rafale.

 

[帅的一匹]

Maybe Dassault worries India will reverse engineer Rafale by HAL.

Like what China did to Su27 assembly line. Private company is a much safer and controllable partner for Dassault.

 

[Koovie]

Maybe Dassault worries India will reverse engineer Rafale by HAL.

Like what China has did to Su27 assembly line.

No, there is not reason for that. The problem is that Dassault does not want to be responsible for HALs work which is completely understandable.

It would have been much easier for india and HAL both, if they would have simply planned for SU35 and later modify it the way they did it with SU30 to SUMKI OR F18.

If you guys remember Scorpene class submarines it took like 100 years to learn tech and create infrastructure--- still not sure 2014 or 2015 or 2016 they will deliver all submarines. Same will happen with Rafale, my 2 cents, u will see FGFA in Indian colors before Rafale.

Thats the point dude! The MMRCA deal is not only for the jets, its also about the technology and the offset clause!
We already have access to Russias best technology, so there is not point to go for the SU 35, which will be similar to the upgraded MKI anyways.

 

[selvan33]

It would have been much easier for india and HAL both, if they would have simply planned for SU35 and later modify it the way they did it with SU30 to SUMKI OR F18.

If you guys remember Scorpene class submarines it took like 100 years to learn tech and create infrastructure--- still not sure 2014 or 2015 or 2016 they will deliver all submarines. Same will happen with Rafale, my 2 cents, u will see FGFA in Indian colors before Rafale.

i agree with your point. but the main reason why chose rafale was to gain the western technology for our future projects.

 

[帅的一匹]

No, I think Dassault want a more controllable partner. Do you think Private company is more capable than HAL manufacturing a fighter jets?

 

[arp2041]

It would have been much easier for india and HAL both, if they would have simply planned for SU35 and later modify it the way they did it with SU30 to SUMKI OR F18.

If you guys remember Scorpene class submarines it took like 100 years to learn tech and create infrastructure--- still not sure 2014 or 2015 or 2016 they will deliver all submarines. Same will happen with Rafale, my 2 cents, u will see FGFA in Indian colors before Rafale.

No, ma'am, we can bet on that, Rafale before FGFA, i have full trust in RUSSIANS

As for scorpenes, first one is scheduled to be inducted by 2015 & all 6 by 2018 in six months gaps each. May be IN will go for additional 3 to keep the MDL submarine construction lines open b'coz of the delays in P-75I.

 

[Dash]

It is just a possible risk what Dassult is seeing, They cant be held responsible in a way, but thats how India works, so you train, teach and supervise HAL production and ensure quality.

You are responsible for teh delivery. Because you are getting the money and not HAL..Period.

 

[Koovie]

It is just a possible risk what Dassult is seeing, They cant be held responsible in a way, but thats how India works, so you train, teach and supervise HAL production and ensure quality.

You are responsible for teh delivery. Because you are getting the money and not HAL..Period.

If you had been Dassault, would you have accepted this with knowing about HALs aweful project management qualities?

 

[帅的一匹]

India government pays the money, it fully has the right to appoint the domestic manufacturer. If Dassault only responsible for providing the machine and kits to HAL, where comes the tech transfer as lots of Indian member saying?

 

[帅的一匹]

What actually HAL can learn through buying Rafale?

 

[arp2041]

India government pays the money, it fully has the right to appoint the domestic manufacturer. If Dassault only responsible for providing the machine and kits to HAL, where comes the tech transfer as lots of Indian member saying?

Tech Transfer details will be only be out once the final contract would be signed. Indian Govt. wants HAL to be the lead manufacturer, but the onus on timely delivery lies on Dassault, that is the whole issue, Dassault is demanding that if the burden of timely deliveries fall on it's shoulders than it should be free enough to chose the local partners. Only 18 Rafales will come in Fly-away conditions from France & majority of work will be done in India, so choosing the right partners will be crucial.

 

[Anony]

If you had been Dassault, would you have accepted this with knowing about HALs aweful project management qualities?

Had I been negotiating for Rafale, I would have simply put one clause, that timeline will start only after HAL will come up with Production facility for Rafale after Dassault transfers the key technologies for setting up the production facility and that Dassault will not be liable of the time gap between transfer of technology and setting up the production facility at HAL.

What actually HAL can learn through buying Rafale?

Modern production facility, which will help to build aircraft as it is on the design board. Something which LCA is suffering from.

 

[bloo]

NO $HIT...................

 

[Dash]

If you had been Dassault, would you have accepted this with knowing about HALs aweful project management qualities?

Yes because when I am taking 100% of the money I cant blame somebody's incompetency and grab the entire money and wash my hands off. Its completely unethical.

There is always risk in business, but you cant say its your risk and sideline the weak when you are the owner and acountable.

Its a matter of clearcut explaination, I as Dassult will say GOI as to what challenges I have and let them sort it and I will help them sort it out than backing out completely. I am a vendor not a client here...

 

[Dash]

What actually HAL can learn through buying Rafale?

What do you think TOT is? and let me ask you a question(its an honest one), What do you mean by TOT in China?