MMRCA may be scrapped by year end

[ExtraOdinary]

Sources please????

 

[Koovie]

Why did they sign the deal post tender? I mean it isn't like you sign a contract and don't know what you'll be liable to pay



According to the article French aren't willing to transfer the technology for india to assemble the aircrafts in house

You read it wrong then. BTW the requirement for full ToT was clear from the very beginning.

 

[Secur]

You read it wrong then. BTW the requirement for full ToT was clear from the very beginning.

Would you be talking about a complete transfer of technology for engine too ?

That is the sensitive part in all these deals , actually ...

 

[Koovie]

Would you be talking about a complete transfer of technology for engine too ?

That is the sensitive part in all these deals , actually ...

Full ToT and complete license production, including the engines. This was clear from the very beginning. I dont know what kind of illiterate journo wrote this BS.

The problem is that Dassault has problems with HAL and not with ToT.

 

[RazorMC]

Would you be talking about a complete transfer of technology for engine too ?

That is the sensitive part in all these deals , actually ...

More important than the engines is the AESA Radar and the stealth features of the Rafale. This is what India needs right now, it can get Russian or P&W engines of it wants.

I guess it's the French having second thoughts on ToT. I remember India being very straightforward on a 100% transfer and Dassault eagerly agreed to it.

I supported the Rafale over Typhoon and Mig/Su btw. Too much advantage over its rivals while giving the IAF an edge over regional airforces and making it competetitive even in international arenas.

 

[Secur]

Full ToT and complete license production, including the engines. This was clear from the very beginning. I dont know what kind of illiterate journo wrote this BS.

The problem is that Dassault has problems with HAL and not with ToT.

Now , that may sound strange to you , but complete transfer of technology isn't what we usually understand it to be , specially the engine core which is a very sensitive technology in the first place and is rarely transferred , the Russians never gave it to the Chinese , the Typhoon consortium never provided it to the Arabs , that is a fact ...

Exactly , how can they be held responsible for something that happens in India by Indians ?

 

[GR!FF!N]

More important than the engines is the AESA Radar and the stealth features of the Rafale. This is what India needs right now, it can get Russian or P&W engines of it wants.

I guess it's the French having second thoughts on ToT. I remember India being very straightforward on a 100% transfer and Dassault eagerly agreed to it.

I supported the Rafale over Typhoon and Mig/Su btw. Too much advantage over its rivals while giving the IAF an edge over regional airforces and making it competetitive even in international arenas.

it might be new to you,but we are working of FGFA,which will be far more steathier than Rafale,just saying..not to mention our own AMCA.and if India wanted that,they could easily go for Typhoon(which is more stealthier than Rafale) or god forbids,F-35..

Now , that may sound strange to you , but complete transfer of technology isn't what we usually understand it to be , specially the engine core which is a very sensitive technology in the first place and is rarely transferred , the Russians never gave it to the Chinese , the Typhoon consortium never provided it to the Arabs , that is a fact ...

Exactly , how can they be held responsible for something that happens in India by Indians ?

an aircraft doesn't crash for assembly line fault,but for shoddy parts..and Hal assembled various fighter jets for decades and produced own.so,i think they know how to perform assembling a jet.

 

[Secur]

it might be new to you,but we are working of FGFA,which will be far more steathier than Rafale,just saying..not to mention our own AMCA.and if India wanted that,they could easily go for Typhoon(which is more stealthier than Rafale) or god forbids,F-35..

What part of " needs now " in his post caused comprehension problems for you ?

an aircraft doesn't crash for assembly line fault,but for shoddy parts..and Hal assembled various fighter jets for decades and produced own.so,i think they know how to perform assembling a jet.

It takes time to learn specially when you are assembling something you never have before , there are differences that you and I cant even imagine and HAL isn't really known for strict adherence to the schedule , now is it ? Obviously , the Dassault aviation will not want to be penalized for something that happens in India for any reason ...

 

[GR!FF!N]

What part of " needs now " in his post caused comprehension problems for you ?

the part "Need" as we already had that technology,thanx to russia..

also,if he wanted to say we need Rafale to fill those role,we could go for Typhoon(more steathier) too..so,that completes my answer..no comprehension problem,but a more elaborate answer..

 

[Azazel]

Now , that may sound strange to you , but complete transfer of technology isn't what we usually understand it to be , specially the engine core which is a very sensitive technology in the first place and is rarely transferred , the Russians never gave it to the Chinese , the Typhoon consortium never provided it to the Arabs , that is a fact ...

Exactly , how can they be held responsible for something that happens in India by Indians ?

Transfer of Technology here means the technology for mass production.What we are asking for is the technology for fabricating the engine components in India and that is a very prized technology.And as far as I know French are willing to give it to us,but they just don't trust the potential of HAL to deliver it properly.So they don't want to take the commercial liability for this.

 

[Donatello]

lol...........This shows that Dassault has no faith in HAL.......or how bad HAL is...........

Obviously they have experience with flying coffins....but Rafale is another ball park. Dassault wouldn't want HAL's name over it's fighter.

Anyway, I hope PAF keeps modernizing.

Transfer of Technology here means the technology for mass production.What we are asking for is the technology for fabricating the engine components in India and that is a very prized technology.

I have mentioned on this forum a number of times that no Western company will simply hand out their secret patented technology to a country like India or China.

This is a big issue.

 

[Secur]

the part "Need" as we already had that technology,thanx to russia..

Why are you still struggling to complete LCA then , why import the engine when you had the technology already ? You had stealth technology and AESA radar one , cmon !

Transfer of Technology here means the technology for mass production.What we are asking for is the technology for fabricating the engine components in India and that is a very prized technology.And as far as I know French are willing to give it to us,but they just don't trust the potential of HAL to deliver it properly.So they don't want to take the commercial liability for this.

I know what it means , I just do not know to what extent , since engine core is a very prized technology and it hasn't been given in much more bigger deals than this , if you want , I can quote examples ... Engine cores are something beyond a secret , I do not think Paris agreed to it just like you guys are saying , you may have the technology for airframe and avionics but not this ... Of course , nobody would want to be held liable for something they wouldn't do , fair enough ?

 

[navtrek]

Are you really that dumb or just pretending.... give me a single source, otherwise better remain silent, because you are making an absolute fool out of yourself.

actually he makes perfect sense.

 

[Azazel]

lol...........This shows that Dassault has no faith in HAL.......or how bad HAL is...........

Obviously they have experience with flying coffins....but Rafale is another ball park. Dassault wouldn't want HAL's name over it's fighter.

Anyway, I hope PAF keeps modernizing.



I have mentioned on this forum a number of times that no Western company will simply hand out their secret patented technology to a country like India or China.

This is a big issue.

Why not??If this deal won't go through Dassault is gonna lose a lot of market share to emerging players like China.They need this deal.Besides what we are asking is not such sensitive technology at least not considering the defense co operation we have with French.What we are asking is the technology for mass production.Not for their top secret stuff.And yes HAL sucks everybody knows this.

Why are you still struggling to complete LCA then , why import the engine when you had the technology already ?



I know what it means , I just do not know to what extent , since engine core is a very prized technology and it hasn't been given in much more bigger deals than this , if you want , I can quote examples ... Engine cores are something beyond a secret , I do not think Paris agreed to it just like you guys are saying , you may have the technology for airframe and avionics but not this ... Of course , nobody would want to be held liable for something they wouldn't do , fair enough ?

You are no listening are you,We are asking for the technology for mass production which include fabrication of Engine.Not the technology of the engine itself.

 

[foxbat]

Now , that may sound strange to you , but complete transfer of technology isn't what we usually understand it to be , specially the engine core which is a very sensitive technology in the first place and is rarely transferred , the Russians never gave it to the Chinese , the Typhoon consortium never provided it to the Arabs , that is a fact ...

Russians did give it to the Indians though. The Su 30MKI engine is now completely manufactured in India.

Exactly , how can they be held responsible for something that happens in India by Indians ?

Are you seriously asking this question? Then you have no clue how International business works. If tomorrow Indian govt wants to buy some turbines from GE and GE gets the fabrication work done by its subcontractor in India, who do you think will own the responsibility of the delivery.. The subcontractor or GE ??
The same applies here. HAL is going to be a subcontractor for Dassault in this case.. Hence from the customer (GOI) perspective, the complete responsibility has to stay with Dassault.