MMRCA: A do or die contract for Dassault’s military business

[dbc]

If you grew up in India , you would have been used to it

It's a part of the culture .

Yes the Mumbai minute is antithetical to the New York minute. I learnt that lesson the hard way when I visited Mumbai years ago. It is not unusual for people in India to say 'one sec..' or 'one minute..' and make you wait for an hour.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Alerting them for something will not be going for buying. Going to EF will not be taken seriously by Dassualt. @Skull and Bones

As far as i feel, going to EFT will be far more seriously taken by Dassault, because it met our mission parameters. While F-18SH has been kicked out even before the competition started (not literally).

 

[SAN 1971]

EFT and Rafale were joint winners, in which Rafale trumps EFT in acquisition and maintenance cost. Though EFT expressed interest in renegotiation with MoD, but without any heed from our side.

If the negotiation with Dassault fails, then going for the EFT is far more logical choice than going for F-18SH, which will be next to useless for IAF.

Can't we negotiate with both at same time, since from here if we go for EFT then they won't be willing to cede any ground knowing they are the last one.

 

[rockstarIN]

Can't we negotiate with both at same time, since from here if we go for EFT then they won't be willing to cede any ground knowing they are the last one.

Hard to handle Dassault alone now, you want to add EF consortium too?

 

[SAN 1971]

Hard to handle Dassault alone now, you want to add EF consortium too?

I think we would be in better position to bargain since haggling with two is always better than one.

 

[senkakudefender]

Indian Line UP should look like this if they are serious about China

1.) 200 MIG35
2.)250 Mki
3.)225 EF
4.)225 Rafale
5.) 120 F-35

The rest SHould be given for pilot Training Remember this is just AIrforce not NAVY

Future Projects

They should re work on tejas and make it comparable to f-35 in the next 2 decades
they should Aquire FGFa to counter J-20 about the same number or a little more

IF not then india is seriously Wasting money and putting national Security at RISK with the side lines like upgrading migs and mirages and waiting on tejas etc

REmember this is JUST AIRFORCE

the picture u gave extremely similar to one in works

314 su 30mki
50 tejas
80 mig 29 upg (mig 35 equivalet)
60 mirage 2000h
186 rafale
144+ fgfa
40+ pakfa

and many more

 

[senkakudefender]

any thing that is not in production is a pipe line dream for any one, Just like f-35 right now its not in production it is a pipe line dream you can see alot of country already backing out of it

Migs and Mirages are 80s Fighter tech no matter how much upgrades you do to them their airframe (airworthiness) is the weakest Link and they will fail india got those news in late 80s early 90s now we are talking about 2013 thats more then 2 decades as in 20 years these fighter jets are older then 100% of indian Adults(18 years of age)

are u jealous or daft? UPG is another name of mig 35 and mirages are a suppliment to rafale. BTW last i checked ur f16 A/B s are now being used as expendable target drones by USA, so clam up!

 

[senkakudefender]

Idiots.........China runs junk Su 27 and copies with just superficial avionics. J 10 only "genuinely" potent jet is like a 1980s F16. J 20 uses underpowered engines no AESA and less stealth than advanced 4.5 gen tech. Only thing they have is numbers. Pakistan is given importance equal to a stray dog in India so blow yourselves up with hot air.

 

[Koovie]

any thing that is not in production is a pipe line dream for any one, Just like f-35 right now its not in production it is a pipe line dream you can see alot of country already backing out of it

Migs and Mirages are 80s Fighter tech no matter how much upgrades you do to them their airframe (airworthiness) is the weakest Link and they will fail india got those news in late 80s early 90s now we are talking about 2013 thats more then 2 decades as in 20 years these fighter jets are older then 100% of indian Adults(18 years of age)

SU 30 MKIs are in production
Tejas are in final trials
Mig 29s are already being upgraded
Mirage 2000 are already being upgraded
Rafale deal is close to be signed... its about the fine tuning now
FGFA.... India will get the first prototype next year and has already signed an agreement to spent 50 billion USD for co development 3 years ago.....

And all AF in the world still depend HEAVILY on 4 th gen fighters.. and thats not gonna change for a long time.

Mig 29 and Mirage 2000s are lethal fighters thanks to several updates.

 

[sancho]

Just give a call to Eurofighter Consortium, and you'll see Dassault officials getting their panties in a bunch.

The problem is, Dassault doesn't really care much about it, since their defence projects are not the money maker projects in their company, but their civil projects are. Dassault can live with it selling Rafale only to French forces, but French government can't since any export will reduce costs for spares, ammo and more importantly for upgrades, that they otherwise have to take on their own. Which makes French governements in a way more closer to us, than to what Dassault wants.
And to be honest, calling the EF consortium is the last that thing that would make Dassault afraid. They know too well that the EF doesn't suit our requirements, be it technical or financial, which is why I wanted the F18SH to remain after the shortlisting too, even just as a bargaining chip.

 

[Abingdonboy]

The problem is, Dassault doesn't really care much about it, since their defence projects are not the money maker projects in their company, but their civil projects are. Dassault can live with it selling Rafale only to French forces, but French government can't since any export will reduce costs for spares, ammo and more importantly for upgrades, that they otherwise have to take on their own. Which makes French governements in a way more closer to us, than to what Dassault wants.
And to be honest, calling the EF consortium is the last that thing that would make Dassault afraid. They know too well that the EF doesn't suit our requirements, be it technical or financial, which is why I wanted the F18SH to remain after the shortlisting too, even just as a bargaining chip.

Whoa @sancho, yes Dassualt gets the majority of its revenue from its civilian side but surely a $12-20 BILLION USD deal is enough to make any company sit up and take notice. I can't imagine there's a better incentive on this earth than that kind of mullah!

 

[sancho]

Whoa @sancho, yes Dassualt gets the majority of its revenue from its civilian side but surely a $12-20 BILLION USD deal is enough to make any company sit up and take notice. I can't imagine there's a better incentive on this earth than that kind of mullah!

They want the deal, but are not desperate for the deal like the EF consortium, since it's only a side buisiness for them, while it's themain buisiness for the EF consortium.

 

[Jade]

India requires these jets. The recent incursion by Chinese should hit Indian political establishment to complete the deal as soon as possible

 

[Abingdonboy]

India requires these jets. The recent incursion by Chinese should hit Indian political establishment to complete the deal as soon as possible

The deal is progressing as fast as it can, political pressure on the Indian side will not do anything.

 

[Arya Desa]

Forget about Rafales we need F35s. Lets see china step a foot over the Himalayas into OUR Kashmir.