Mission Sabotage CPEC: Plan for Gwadar Electricity Power Plant Scraped

[Thəorətic Muslim]

Chinese got their roads for their trucks.

The Chinese aren't that stupid. I'm sure they know best way for freight is by train not trucks.

 

[chinasun]

I completely agree with you man, especially the education part since we have such a large population. We needed a proper education reform that effectively prepares you well in STEM, but also focus on ethics and Islam in a short duration class.

This way we could heavily control/centralise the narrative of Islam in the state's favour and prevent terror networks from taking advantage of people.

Literacy rates must be increased and access to education must be maximised.


There are rumours of early elections approaching I think. There were lots of protests in many places but they tend to use force, you can find some videos in the threads here. Still not enough clearly.

When a government official spoke out against them he was kidnapped and tortured, his sex tape was leaked to his daughter. And when he spoke out against that, they kidnapped him again and filed cases against him.

Do Pakistanis dare to fight for justice?

 

[TheSolution]

Do Pakistanis dare to fight for justice?

An argument could be made that the terror groups which attack the security check posts, etc, are doing just that.

But in the formal civillian domain, there have only been a handful of actual protests alongside some large political rallies. (Which were weakened again by politicians who blocked roads and cut media coverage)

 

[Catalystic]

Do Pakistanis dare to fight for justice?

No

Anyone doing such, or even dream of such……u know what happens ??

A black unmarked vigo comes, the person taken to hidden places, stripped naked, tortured in custody and then naked videos can be used for blackmail or to shut the person or kill them
Their family is not safe. Even kids n women of the house can be taken away in such manner

So no we cannot fight such powerful mafias

 

[Chat SAMOSA]

If the move of the plant is true, it could be for many reasons.

Could be they want to use thar coal which makes it cheaper.

Could be they woke up and realized imported oil power is not required in gwadder which is not seeing required demand and so pivot

Real issue is the continued inability to publish fill t&c of cpec contracts. Only certainty is CCP will do whatever they see fit to enforce those contracts to get their loans, interests, project contract money's AND ownership stake with guaranteed return clauses.

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

Iranian women fought for the freedom of the headscarf and won, the government abolished the moral police, the Chinese people fought for prevention and control, won, and the government abolished the strict epidemic prevention policy.
Pakistanis think the government is corrupt, why not fight?
@Menace2Society @Bleek
@Horse_Rider @Crimson Blue
@OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ
@epebble @Catalystic
@villageidiot

I don't know if you read my previous comment... anyhow, Pakistan is under comprehensive rule through proxy. An elite established through centuries of institutionalized coercion, lack of intellectual heft, indifference/deficiencies in rising up to the challenge and in understanding their space. The resultant decisions, as reflected, are therefore narrow and self centered.

Which, unlike Iran and China, both of whom managed to dethrone an existing regime... is possible. So, they at the very least have an image of themselves, a reflection... that Pakistanis lack. The rott is so deep that anyone from bottom up will willingly and wholeheartedly oblige to keep the course...
As up and coming generations open their eyes in current predicament they'd be that much more confused and mired further in the slump.
So, NO...
Pakistan's fate is sadly intertwined with it's true patron... and with it's demise/decline will the people open their eyes once more to who they are, where they stand and what exactly do they seek...
Finally and most importantly conjure up the strength and courage to sacrifice for what is right!

 

[Horse_Rider]

Time will tell, eventually the copium will run out. Infrastructure built to primarily secure Chinese trade routes, parasitic loan terms agreed on by kickback kings, again beneficial to the Chinese, hardly any foreign investors setting up shop in the free zones. Yes, the power infrastructure, which is built on those same parasitic loan terms, is a good prospect, but how much relies on imported coal and how affordable is it? How many local companies and workers participated, or was it Chinese companies building roads for you?

Just because the infrastructure reaps benefits doesn't mean it was done on beneficial terms.

Reading your posts, it's very obvious you DO NOT understand what CPEC really is, yet you keep writing negative about it . Instead of writing a "hate song" propaganda against the CPEC, speak to me in factuals so I can help you understand. This forum used to be pro-Pakistan. Now it's becoming more and more anti-Pakistan it seems where anti-Pakistan propaganda is done relentlessly!

 

[Crimson Blue]

Update on the Gwader power plant project

Here is an excerpt from an newspaper article published yesterday:

"Islamabad wanted to either shelve the 300MW project or change its location to Thar to use the local coal. But China did not agree to Pakistan’s text about the Gwadar plant, which had mentioned that “both sides recognised that there was a need to examine the requirement, size, location and fuel type for 300MW Gwadar Power Plant in view of escalating international coal prices, which were resulting in exceptionally high prices of electricity, liquidity and foreign exchange issues for Pakistan and environmental concerns”.

CPEC expansion plan in doldrums | The Express Tribune

China has not agreed to further expand cooperation in areas of energy, water management, climate change

tribune.com.pk

Should we chalk it up to as another victory for smart army generals?

 

[epebble]

Update on the Gwader power plant project

Here is an excerpt from an newspaper article published yesterday:

"Islamabad wanted to either shelve the 300MW project or change its location to Thar to use the local coal. But China did not agree to Pakistan’s text about the Gwadar plant, which had mentioned that “both sides recognised that there was a need to examine the requirement, size, location and fuel type for 300MW Gwadar Power Plant in view of escalating international coal prices, which were resulting in exceptionally high prices of electricity, liquidity and foreign exchange issues for Pakistan and environmental concerns”.

CPEC expansion plan in doldrums | The Express Tribune

China has not agreed to further expand cooperation in areas of energy, water management, climate change

tribune.com.pk

Should we chalk it up to as another victory for smart army generals?

Prices were high in 2022, but they have come back. But if they are fearful it may climb again, it makes sense to scrap it when foreign currency is tight. Chalk it up to economic non-viability.

 

[Crimson Blue]

CPEC UPDATE September 2023:

Minutes of 11th Joint Cooperation Committee (JCC) of the CPEC was released back in July 31, 2023. However when the bilaterally signed agreement was released earlier in September 2023 almost all of the agreed points in the July minutes were rejected by Chinese side. Following is brief summary of the developments which were agreed by Chinese in July JCC meeting but rejected in the meeting held in September.


1. China excluded cooperation in the areas of cross-border tourism in G-B, K-P and AJK and cooperation for promotion of coastal tourism from the final minutes of the 11th JCC

2. China also did not agree to Pakistan’s proposal for inclusion of Water Resources Management and Climate Change and Urban Infrastructure Development in the CPEC framework.

3. Islamababd wanted to change location of 300 MW Gwader power plant to Thar to use the local coal. But China did not agree to Pakistan’s text about the Gwadar plant,

4. The text related to the financial closing of 701 megawatts (MW) Azad Pattan hydropower project, 1,124MW Kohala power plant, and 1,320MW Thar Block 1 Shanghai Electric Co power plant was dropped from the final minutes. So These plants would not be operational as per original plan.


5. China also did not agree to a proposal to the inclusion of a 500kv transmission line from Hub to Gwadar to link the seaport city with the national grid in the CPEC framework.


6. China did not agree to “carry out joint studies for future development of Thar coal blocks, including development of mega power parks and power evacuation infrastructure, with a view to meet Pakistan’s energy needs from indigenous resources, conversion of coal into other products for domestic demand as well as exports.

7. China excluded the issue of financial challenges being faced by the power companies from the final minutes.


8. China also did not agree to the proposal for inclusion of 100MW KIU and 80MW Phander hydel power projects in the CPEC energy cooperation list and implementation through Chinese investors. China did not agree to the proposal of developing a policy framework for coal gasification to fertiliser projects based on Thar coal.


9. Similarly, there is no mention of the South-North gas pipeline project in the final minutes. The draft minutes had mentioned examination of feasibility study and Chinese cooperation for the purpose.

10. Pakistan had proposed Chinese participation in a strategic underground gas storage project but there is no mention of this mega project in the final minutes.

CPEC expansion plan in doldrums | The Express Tribune

China has not agreed to further expand cooperation in areas of energy, water management, climate change

tribune.com.pk

 

[Crimson Blue]

..... and this time from Nikkei Asia:

China spurned Pakistan's proposals for new Belt and Road projects

Meeting minutes reflect Beijing's concerns over political instability, security

asia.nikkei.com

 

[Ali_Baba]

..... and this time from Nikkei Asia:

China spurned Pakistan's proposals for new Belt and Road projects

Meeting minutes reflect Beijing's concerns over political instability, security

asia.nikkei.com

The minutes also reveal that Beijing declined Islamabad's proposal to build a 500 kilovolt transmission line to connect the southern port of Gwadar -- a focus of Chinese infrastructure investment -- to the national electricity grid from Karachi, according to the officials. At the same time, Beijing forced Pakistan to drop its objections to a 300 megawatt coal-fired power plant in Gwadar, which Islamabad wanted to move to another location where domestic rather than imported coal could be used.

Shocking if true - not sure what to make of it .. Pakistan needs to get away from energy imports, so if local coal cannot be used - it makes the import issue reliant on foreign exchange more pressing. Why import coal if you have it locally? Is the issue more on security issues where Pakistan wants to move the plant, or the quality of the coal is not suitable ?

If this is the constraint - then Pakistan should simply not build this plant at all .. period.

The fact that Pakistan itself cannot stop this - or was forced to accept it just shows the fundamentally flawed model of governance in Pakistan that refuses to learn anything.

As with all news reports - you dont know if is true - or a paid piece to push a political agenda. But if true - it is worrying to see China push Pakistan into a corner that is at a determent to Pakistan's long term future success ...

 

[maithil]

Pakistan already has surplus production. Why not connect Gwadar with your national grid and use some of that spare capacity?

 

[SaadH]

Pakistan already has surplus production. Why not connect Gwadar with your national grid and use some of that spare capacity?

Capacity is predicated on imported fuel...so a no go...

 

[Nothing]

It feels like GOP does not have way to fix anything related to energy management in Pakistan. They are just dolling out new contracts to make power plants to keep China happy. This way China keep exporting large sum of material, technology (older ones) and labor. Someone is Pakistan needs to stand to this madness and use existing capacity. I think so Pakistan has enough capacity for to manage growth for next 5-7 years. They needs to stop this madness of creating new white elephants to show FDI.
Make existing plants more efficient, improve raw material supply lines, transmission line and move towards digital meters. I think so you guys have created enough infra using CPEC, now just manage is it and increase its utilization.