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Mirage 2000 to PAF? UAE

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Yes you are right malay but you have to understand the mastan(Aeronautics and automotive are not the same thing mate) tends to overcompensate. We do no more than a lot of Indian members who claim quite a bit for various Indian projects.
 
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Yes, i do know he tends to overcompensate:D

But i was talking about things in a very general way.
The way i see most members here talk about what is in store for JF-17 and FC-20 as solving all their woes, when they dont realize that the timeframe in which they speak, others would have upgraded their inventories and capabilities as well!

And yes, i do get amused as well when some Indian members also claim some things about some projects as if it were something else :D
 
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Yes, i do know he tends to overcompensate:D

But i was talking about things in a very general way.
The way i see most members here talk about what is in store for JF-17 and FC-20 as solving all their woes, when they dont realize that the timeframe in which they speak, others would have upgraded their inventories and capabilities as well!

Well as with all things nothing is going to be static. the JF-17 has a newer airframe and I am sure there has been plenty of capacity for improvement. And they are undoubtably other things in the pipeline.
 
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Yes you are right malay but you have to understand the mastan(Aeronautics and automotive are not the same thing mate) tends to overcompensate.


Hi,

Indeed autos and aeronautics are not the same---even though the russians made horrible cars---lada's---their weapons system were much much better---that example was not used in the real term but was rather literal---just to make the reader unsderstand the differences and get their attention.

Secondly---Grippen has been in production in different forms and capabilities for the last 30 plus years and hundreds of them are in service----over here---what do we have---maybe 8 planes going through trials and first ever sqdrn not even in service---an sd10-12 not fully developed yet---.

The bottomline is that a nation's fortunes must not depend on unproven systems---keyesersoze knows very well that all millitary doctrines are dependent upon proven defensive and offensive systems---especially for a nation like pakistan, which may not get a second chance once the war starts.

Last but not least---it is always better to promise less and deliver more---rather than otherwise.:pakistan::pakistan:
 
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Indian TATA car is hardly something car producers can be proud of. Same goed for the end products of military producers in India. For a nation that represents largest part of the world it is not much serious. India needs decades and ecen then it is not competitive...
 
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So if we are not getting the block-52, then solely relying on platforms that are both new and have never ever been tested in battle field is bad news. A more reliable platform in such a case is badly needed until both the jets get matured enough for the nation to completely rely on them. Mirage-2000 in such a case would not be a bad option however the mirage solution wouldn't be so cost effective as French are known for charging higher then the normal and specially when the production lines for mirages have ended.
 
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Yes you are right malay but you have to understand the mastan(Aeronautics and automotive are not the same thing mate) tends to overcompensate.


Hi,

Indeed autos and aeronautics are not the same---even though the russians made horrible cars---lada's---their weapons system were much much better---that example was not used in the real term but was rather literal---just to make the reader unsderstand the differences and get their attention.

Secondly---Grippen has been in production in different forms and capabilities for the last 30 plus years and hundreds of them are in service----over here---what do we have---maybe 8 planes going through trials and first ever sqdrn not even in service---an sd10-12 not fully developed yet---.

The bottomline is that a nation's fortunes must not depend on unproven systems---keyesersoze knows very well that all millitary doctrines are dependent upon proven defensive and offensive systems---especially for a nation like pakistan, which may not get a second chance once the war starts.

Last but not least---it is always better to promise less and deliver more---rather than otherwise.:pakistan::pakistan:

mastan khan
i wont say anything more than that I stand by my word. You watch this space my friend. I have mentioned this before that PAfs position is unique, and the things it has done in the past are a testimony to that. We cant have all the fancy toys but this puppy is going places.
WaSalam
Araz
 
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You know Mastan, this is what i have said many times on this forum as well. Many people chose to ignore it though. Everyone says in five years JF-17 will be equipped with this/that and will be equal to the the MKI, F-16 blk 50, and whatnot. The J-10 will be this and that.

I always do wonder why does everyone presume that in five years, the MKI will be of the same spec as it is today, or the F-16 or something else for that matter. People start comparing the Jf-17/J-10 specs of tomorrow with the inservice specs of Su-30, F-16 blk 52, etc, etc.

Heck i'd even venture to say, youd be shocked to hear of the MLU being planned for the Jaguars!

Shocked? Nah. How far ahead is MKI or even the (sarcasm) deadly F-22 killing Jaguar going to get? Once AESA, HMS, TVC, data-links and so on are added, they can only become stealth fighters.

What specs will MKI have after the next 5 years that the JF and J-10 cannot possibly field? I don't see why that AESA radar upgrade is such a big deal, every modern jet will come with that at some point. Same with stuff like DRFM.

How hard it will be for the JF and J-10 to catch up depends only on money. If the PAF was happy to order 70 block 52 in addition to 6 Erieye, I don't think upgrades will be too limited by the financial situation. If it becomes an export success it will end up with specs competing with the block 60.

Even without upgrades the above mentioned jets can compete.
 
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If we can get them it would forsure be a big boost to PAF comon a wake up call for the ones that are sleeping! it is very close to f-16 as others have said so stop putting the aircraft down anyhow as far getting them as gift i highly doubt that will happen for a special price yes perhaps so lets see wat happend i wouldn't mind at to see this aircraft in our fleet it would bring a deadly punch to PAF.
 
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Hasnain2009.
Brother, you are quoting a price of 60 million per plane, if I am not mistaken. On what basis do you calculate this price? Please understand that the french are desperate to sell these planes and there are no buyers for them and believe me they have tried!!
Secondly, UAE may on the surface be India friendly, but Sheikh Kahlifa is a great friend of Pakistan. i know this from some sources close to the ruler himself. They would not under any circumstances, appease India at the cost of Pakistan.
At least this is what i think.
WaSalam
Araz

I didnt said each plane will cost $60mn, i included the money in total figure which will be used to build base, infrastructure, assembly, pilot training etc! Thats why i said that it will be better spend this money on JF-17, bcoz it will be our future platform for years!
Just for read my post again:
Thanks!

If we buy 50 Mirages then it will cost $3bn including upgrades, infrastructure, base etc!
Its much better to invest $3bn on Jf-17 to make it much better then Mirage!
 
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3 Billion is a bit steep the Saudi's paid 5 for 72 eurofighters.
 
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mastan khan
i wont say anything more than that I stand by my word. You watch this space my friend. I have mentioned this before that PAfs position is unique, and the things it has done in the past are a testimony to that. We cant have all the fancy toys but this puppy is going places.
WaSalam
Araz



Araz,

Please, please, please---don't give me that---don't patronize me---if you take away the valour part out of this discussion----the paf has been a total failure since the early 90's till now---a total failure as a corporation in procuring appropriate defensive and offensive systems for the welbeing of the country---they have been a total failure in not understanding the consequences of the upcoming sanctions by Pressler and Solariz in the 80's.

After 9/11 when the sanctions were lifted---it took them another 4 years to place an order for the planes that they were very familiar with F 16 blk 52---THAT 4 YEARS TIME CONSTITUTES TO CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE on the part of PAF( from 2002 till 2005---2005 is when they placed the order )---they were cockawalking and strutting around in different countries and trying out every piece of s--t for 4 long years---and then ultimately they fell back to the blk 52. Between 2002 and 2005---cash was in abundance---pakistan had the money---it was the quake that broke our back. Any order for the procurement should have been placed by within months of the sanctions coming off---.

PAF again failed to understand that the the relationship between pak and india---the goodwill was only temporary---they failed to understand the significance of their ( pakistan's imporetance to the u s ) importance after 9/11---they failed to understand how india would react to this new relation and what it could do to sabotage the situation.

Indian mig 25's had been flying over our air space with impunity---at their discretion and at their pleasure---any time---any place---like it was their mama's backyard---

We never go to fight a war with a sob-story in one hand and sanctions prone equipment in the other hand.

It is because of those procurement failures that we will never catch upto our old nemesis for the next many many years.

The bravery and professionalism of the pilots is never in question---but paf administration has lied to the pakistani public through their teeth and that is the problem.

Remember that girl who asked Nawaz Sharif on tv---why don't you avenge my brother's death---her brother was a lt. on the Atlantique shot down by indian mig 23---and Nawaz replied---" bus hum kuch nahin kar saktay bibi--- " " we cannot do anything ma'am ".

In my heart I knew that paf was a sitting duck---that day I got the proof.

I am tired of hearing about PAF pilots---that they will lay down their lives for the country---I know that they will---without any doubt and second thought---they will leave their families behind knowing upfront that they are on a one way mission and never coming back---knowing very well that they are going in BLIND to fight an enemy with a 360 deg lookout and a strike capability beyond vision---they will sacrifice themselves with pride, honour and dignity flying their out dated machines---that is painful to me---I want my boys to come back home alive---one time---everytime.

This was and is totally unfair to paf pilots---to be a cannon fodder---their bosses should have known better and planned better---ahead of time---they were a total failure time and again in deciphering the the mood of the american congress in the late 80's---they became a failure one more time going to sleep during the lovey dovey relationship between pak and india after 2001.
 
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mastan khan sometimes I feel you take your position as devils advocate a little far.

From what I have learned it wasn't the PAF at fault but civilian admins who tried to line their pocket and the chumps who voted them in.

And you are stretching things a little far with your claims...
 
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I think my friend MastanKhan is unaware of the fact that during the 90's our nuclear and missile program was number 1 priority, not our airforce. In my opinion, it indeed was the correct decision to develop our missile program because they are a bigger threat to India than our airplanes. Also the French were selling us M2K's for $100 million/plane, i mean this is simply ridicilous. If more money was spent buying new planes during the 90's than our missile program would have suffered, that in my opinion would have been the most stupidest decision anyone could ever take.
 
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I think my friend MastanKhan is unaware of the fact that during the 90's our nuclear and missile program was number 1 priority, not our airforce. In my opinion, it indeed was the correct decision to develop our missile program because they are a bigger threat to India than our airplanes. Also the French were selling us M2K's for $100 million/plane, i mean this is simply ridicilous. If more money was spent buying new planes during the 90's than our missile program would have suffered, that in my opinion would have been the most stupidest decision anyone could ever take.

Yeah and the current prat in charge tried to add his surcharge to the original deal. The deal got scuppered when the PAF officers said no way to the increased price. Want to blame someone blame Zardari and the morons who vote for him
 
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