MiG 35 : Not be underestimated

[HAIDER]

Recently reading american pilot analysis, about russian combat aircraft agility and maneuverability . In active combat zone maneuverability of russian plane is not a plus point at all, because whenever russian plane maneuvers it reduce the speed, so low that it can get hit easily, and burn lot of fuel when again picks up the speed.

 

[Keysersoze]

Recently reading american pilot analysis, about russian combat aircraft agility and maneuverability . In active combat zone maneuverability of russian plane is not a plus point at all, because whenever russian plane maneuvers it reduce the speed, so low that it can get hit easily, and burn lot of fuel when again picks up the speed.

Haider It can be used to evade missiles. All aircraft lose energy during maneuvers.
I think you mis-read the report....

 

[HAIDER]

Do you guys think in BVR zone you take the risk of slowing down speed to almost 200 mil/hr..lol..Well incase of F16, i have noticed it never reduce the speed changing the path in certain directions....
Do you guys think russian engine are fuel efficient like american ?..

 

[Keysersoze]

Do you guys think in BVR zone you take the risk of slowing down speed to almost 200 mil/hr..lol..Well incase of F16, i have noticed it never reduce the speed changing the path in certain directions....
Do you guys think russian engine are fuel efficient like american ?..

The only way a F-16 doesn't lose speed is when it goes into a dive.

 

[Owais]

....
Do you guys think russian engine are fuel efficient like american ?..

well you are right. americal engines are more feul efficient than russian engines but russians engines are excellent in TVC.

 

[niaz]

Do you guys think in BVR zone you take the risk of slowing down speed to almost 200 mil/hr..lol..Well incase of F16, i have noticed it never reduce the speed changing the path in certain directions....
Do you guys think russian engine are fuel efficient like american ?..

Aerodynamics make it impossible to turn in tight circles at high speed due to a basic force 'Inertia'. Try turning in a car at high speed if you have any doubts.

No matter which aircraft, a turn means reduction in velocity. Only way to reduce the effects of inertia is to make the aircraft unstable and to counter effect of inertia with energy. This was first possible in the Harrier where engine nozzles could be used to change the direction of engine exhuast flow but this was only up and down not sideways. In modern days all 4th generation aircrafts are unstable and have energy manouvering called 'thrust vectoring'.

If one examines the sate of the art fighters such as f-22 and F-35, all have two essential plus over the 5th generation airctraft ( Typhoon). Both have stealth ( making it difficult to spot) and thrust vectoring to dodge the missiles.

Russians produces more oil than Saudi Arabia ( they almost export as much as KSA) and thus are less worried about fuel efficiecy. May be that is the reason why Russian Engines are less fuel efficient.

 

[Contrarian]

Recently reading american pilot analysis, about russian combat aircraft agility and maneuverability . In active combat zone maneuverability of russian plane is not a plus point at all, because whenever russian plane maneuvers it reduce the speed, so low that it can get hit easily, and burn lot of fuel when again picks up the speed.

My previous post:

TVC is very very useful, which is why all the new generation planes are trying to get TVC in them, inlcluding the Super J-10.
3-D TVC is very useful to dodge missiles. The main purpose of TVC is that the plane does not lose energy while turning. TVC gives the plane Super-Manouverability. The Su-30MKI, despite being very big is superbly manouvereable, just because of its 2-D TVC. MiG 35 would be able to twist an turn with a very very low loss or speed, that is why TVC is considered so good. It gives an exceptional advantage in dog fights, and in evasive manouvers against missiles, etc. I quote the capability of the 2-D TVC in the

Su-30MKI:

Thrust Vectoring Control: The 2D TVC makes an aircraft highly maneuverable. The aircraft is capable of near-zero airspeed at high angles of attack and dynamic aerobatics in negative speeds up to 200 km/h.

Aerodynamics
* The integral aerodynamic configuration combined with thrust vectoring results in practically unlimited manoeuvrability and unique taking off and landing characteristics.

* The Su-30MKI has no level winged AoA limitations: it can fly at even 180 degree AoA and still recover. This high super-agility allows rapid deployment of weapons in any direction as desired by the crew.

* The canard notably assists in controlling the aircraft at large angles of attack (AoA) and bringing it to a level flight condition. The wing will have high-lift devices featured as deflecting leading edges and flaperons acting the flaps and ailerons.

It also gives the plane the ability to turn rapidly and re-enter combat in a favourable position or inclination so as to launch missiles. As is quoted above. a WVR fight with a TVC plane would be very much a mistake unless the opposing a/c has an advantage wrt its positioning. Ofcourse, this does not apply to a BVR fight, where things are heading nowadays. Still, without losing energy dodging, gives it an advantage to dodge missiles.



This is JUST for 2-D TVC in the Su-30MKI, MiG 35MKI will have 3-D TVC. Essentially, it would be a very big folly to get into a dogfight with a MiG 35.
The Russians have mastered the art of TVC. MiG 35 is the first plane in the world to feature 3-D TVC. The americans are only now playing catch up, in their entire inventory only F-22 has TVC and that too only 2-D.

As regards to avionics in the MiG 35, the Russians have said that the crowning glory of their avionics development is the MiG 35. The best avionics with many components from their space programme have been put on the MiG 35, it is unparalleled. You have seen the cockpit of the MiG 35, however even at that time, it was not fixed. The FINAL version of the MiG 35 or the production version has been displayed only at the Aero India 2007. Apart from that, whatever India deems best in the world in avionics goes in the plane, however in MiG 35's case, i doubt it would be required. Only the radar might be changed and weaponry.

 

[Contrarian]

In modern days all 4th generation aircrafts are unstable and have energy manouvering called 'thrust vectoring'.

No mate, very very few aircrafts have TVC. Almost all 4th generation planes are unstable and thus use the FBW system, not TVC

 

[niaz]

No mate, very very few aircrafts have TVC. Almost all 4th generation planes are unstable and thus use the FBW system, not TVC

I meant to write :

"In modern days all 4th generation aircrafts are unstable and 5th generation have energy manouvering called 'thrust vectoring'. " You can see that it is a natural follow on from my my earlier sentence.

Never the less, I ommitted '5th generation' in text - you are 100% correct. I appologise for my error.

 

[Bull]

Are you people seriously saying a fighter pilot can evade a locked on missile by outmanouvering/outrunning it ?

 

[melb4aust]

Are you people seriously saying a fighter pilot can evade a locked on missile by outmanouvering/outrunning it ?

From my point of view, its not that easy the way these guyz are talking about, or perhaps its impossible, flares or flirs can do this job plus the jammers n stuff but the TVC i really doubt it.
Outmanouvering the missile travelling at speed of more than Mach-4 while having ur own jet travelling at high speed with reaction time of few milliseconds, pilot need extra extra......extra ordinary skills to that.
Its not something like or close to "Behind the enemy lines"

 

[vnomad]

It will help in turning it from head-on engagement to a tail chase much faster. The jet can outrun the missile(read range not speed).


TVC also helps in getting to an optimum firing position faster. The MKI's climbing rate for example is fantastic.

 

[Contrarian]

TVC improves the chances of winning dog-fights straight by two times atleast.
Its very very importanti dogfights and in many other areas. Its vital.

 

[Bull]

TVC improves the chances of winning dog-fights straight by two times atleast.
Its very very importanti dogfights and in many other areas. Its vital.

But with everybody moving to BVR, dog fights may become a thing of the past.

 

[Owais]

But with everybody moving to BVR, dog fights may become a thing of the past.

TVC is not even soo effective against A-darter or AIM-9X in close combat. PAF will be getting A-Darter for thunders