MiG-29 Fulcrum Vs F-16 Falcon

[archangel]

During the cold war both the planes were developed to counter each other and both were said to be basically the same on the basis of specs. But with time, they have developed in rather different ways and are housed by two countries who have been in a situation of war even before they were planned........
Both the countries have modified it according to their own requirement and needs....and also have used them in a war
(The Kargil War of 1999) ....................
So, which is currently the best out of the two (plzz keep in mind tht your views should be with contxt 2 the respective air forces tht is the IAF and the PAF and nt with global scenario or of developments by some other country or organization)???????????/

 

[shchinese]

During the cold war both the planes were developed to counter each other and both were said to be basically the same on the basis of specs. But with time, they have developed in rather different ways and are housed by two countries who have been in a situation of war even before they were planned........
Both the countries have modified it according to their own requirement and needs....and also have used them in a war
(The Kargil War of 1999) ....................
So, which is currently the best out of the two (plzz keep in mind tht your views should be with contxt 2 the respective air forces tht is the IAF and the PAF and nt with global scenario or of developments by some other country or organization)???????????/

you can just check the history book to see what happened to russia after 1991. after some quick reading on that, do you still believe their fighters are still the same as the F-16?

russia is no longer the old ussr, it is not remotely comparable to the ussr.




have a look at this post:

su-27 and J-11 compared

Russian Su-27 and Chinese J-11 (copied from Su-27). you see the difference by yourself.

 

[AVIAN]

you can just check the history book to see what happened to russia after 1991. after some quick reading on that, do you still believe their fighters are still the same as the F-16?

Oh really, so you are asking someone to believe your own standing which has nothing to do with the reality.

russia is no longer the old ussr, it is not remotely comparable to the ussr.

We knew that, but don't understand why does you chinese themselves are so dependent upon tech trasfer and stealing of the same russian tech about which you are barking about.

have a look at this post:

su-27 and J-11 compared

Russian Su-27 and Chinese J-11 (copied from Su-27). you see the difference by yourself.

Few photographs posted by few equally immature members of this forum and here an equally immature chinese member giving it as a conclusive evidence of victory of Chinese tech over Russians, hey just look at the photographs and one will realize China has once again lived upto its reputation and reversed engineerned Su-27 and gave a fancy chinese name, oh yes we realize the difference.

 

[Free Tibet]

you can just check the history book to see what happened to russia after 1991. after some quick reading on that, do you still believe their fighters are still the same as the F-16?

russia is no longer the old ussr, it is not remotely comparable to the ussr.




have a look at this post:

su-27 and J-11 compared

Russian Su-27 and Chinese J-11 (copied from Su-27). you see the difference by yourself.

If China is so good and advance in tech then why the hell you u import inferior Russian Engines and technologies like the engine starting from J 17 - Thunder to advance one.

 

[tank]

In 21 Century I dont think we can see any dogfights with rare exceptions.
A normal fighter aircraft with good radar and BVR missiles will always give advantage over enemey

 

[shchinese]

If China is so good and advance in tech then why the hell you u import inferior Russian Engines and technologies like the engine starting from J 17 - Thunder to advance one.

1. this thread is not about China, it is about Mig-29 and F-16. China does not operate any of these fighters.

2. russia is the only source for China to import those crap. AL-31 engine is widely known to be a piece of junk, high maintenance cost, low life cycle, underpowered when fitted to J-10/J-11B.

oh, yes, we had this arm embargo after the 1989 incident, but thanks to the embargo, we started from having nothing to the status of today.

---------- Post added at 10:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:01 AM ----------

In 21 Century I dont think we can see any dogfights with rare exceptions.
A normal fighter aircraft with good radar and BVR missiles will always give advantage over enemey

for that reason, Mig-29 doesn't stand any single chance. it is more like a free drone for Pak airforce.

 

[mgmech]

1. this thread is not about China, it is about Mig-29 and F-16. China does not operate any of these fighters.

2. russia is the only source for China to import those crap. AL-31 engine is widely known to be a piece of junk, high maintenance cost, low life cycle, underpowered when fitted to J-10/J-11B.

oh, yes, we had this arm embargo after the 1989 incident, but thanks to the embargo, we started from having nothing to the status of today.

---------- Post added at 10:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:01 AM ----------



for that reason, Mig-29 doesn't stand any single chance. it is more like a free drone for Pak airforce.

ok so u import crap from russia....u cant even make crap it means..... i mean ur post just says so....

buddy that is why maybe u think so... that russian tech is bad... u may be importing crap or they just willing to give u only crap(coz otherwise u will copy)...but even what russian think as crap by their standards is useful and super tech for you........ we import the best of everything we take from them with TOT almost always....

 

[shchinese]

ok so u import crap from russia....u cant even make crap it means..... i mean ur post just says so....

We can't even make crap like AL-31 in the past. There are progress on WS-10A which is set to replace AL-31 in months. Actually, at least 24 J-11B fitted with WS-10a has already entered service last year, but we got some serious problems with the WS-10a, it took us about 9 months to figure out the problem and get them fixed.

photos here:

Ares Homepage

Based on our experience and your recent progress on LCA, I would expect india to be able to produce such crap in another 20-30 years (if you can eventually produce).

The current progress on engines made by india is nothing even remotely comparable to the WS-6 project which we did in 1970s - in terms of progress, performance, reliability, industrial base etc.

 

[mgmech]

We can't even make crap like AL-31 in the past. There are progress on WS-10A which is set to replace AL-31 in months. Actually, at least 24 J-11B fitted with WS-10a has already entered service last year, but we got some serious problems with the WS-10a, it took us about 9 months to figure out the problem and get them fixed.

as u usually say talk when its complete(these r ur words only)...so keep ur mouth shut till then...
progress reminds me India is also only progressing in its R&D on engines....What matters is final success few years before or after is not that important....it is the quality that matters and it is where India does not compromise unlike China(we do R&D and not copy paste)...also rememeber not everyone achieves the same thing at the same time....what matters is there should be progress... if u can appreciate anything in life...

Based on our experience and your recent progress on LCA, I would expect india to be able to produce such crap in another 20-30 years (if you can eventually produce).

Ok so u r the project director of LCA and u have experience there.. well we didnt know thanks for telling us......

The current progress on engines made by india is nothing even remotely comparable to the WS-6 project which we did in 1970s - in terms of progress, performance, reliability, industrial base etc.

oops even after your so called progress nothing is achieved till now....!!!!!!!!!!! since 70's u have not been able to do anything despite making so much progress so early..!!!!!!!! thats pathetic...

 

[normalindiancitizen]

This has turned into a boxing bout. Shall we compare the two ac????
The Mig 29 firstly is a twin engine ac and is very powerful, its thrust to weight is greater than one which makes it superior to the f-16 that pakistan has.
Secondly both the radars are comparable. but the R-73 carried by the mig 29 is superior to the aim 9 l carried by the f-16 presently. When the combat goes into the bvr scenario, ther ball game will be different. I dont know if Mig 29 does bvr, (the indian one) but thef-16 of pakistan will not until the aim120s com.
So there, what other parameters would be required to be compared????

 

[DeathGod]

During the cold war both the planes were developed to counter each other and both were said to be basically the same on the basis of specs. But with time, they have developed in rather different ways and are housed by two countries who have been in a situation of war even before they were planned........
Both the countries have modified it according to their own requirement and needs....and also have used them in a war
(The Kargil War of 1999) ....................
So, which is currently the best out of the two (plzz keep in mind tht your views should be with contxt 2 the respective air forces tht is the IAF and the PAF and nt with global scenario or of developments by some other country or organization)???????????/

Hi archangel

If you can please post the attributes of the Mig-29K & F-16 Block 52 then we can have a comparison. As per my analysis using the data available from wikipedia the Mig-29 comes out a slight winner. While the thrust to weight ratio of both these are quite simillar , the mig has a much higher (3:2) rate of climb as compared to F-16.

 

[SU-57E]

fulcrum does have bvr--
BVR capability

R-27R/T -200 meters to 80 km
R-77 - 90 km
R-27ER/ET - 200 meters to 130 km

india is spending more than a billion on just upgrades.... so you can always say that this mig-29 must be close to mig-35.

 

[normalindiancitizen]

Deathgod, there is no real point in comparing the block 52s with the mig 29 k. The block 52s have just started coming in and until they all are operational there is no point. The mig 29 K is going to the indian navy not the air force, so once again a comparison is not really worthwhile. As it is, the mig 29s that the airforce has will probably get upgraded to SMT standards or better if the airforce plans go through. But right now, Indian Airforce has the base model mig 29 and the pakistanis have the f-16 blocka/b.. so there


also in BVR combat, the equation will chang a lot. Avionics will become everything. Radar and the bvr missilewill ofcourse be important, but also the radar warning receivers, the jammers the mission computers etc will play a much more crucial role than just pure performance. Thrust to weight, rate of climb will always have a role, but not as much as avionics.

 

[normalindiancitizen]

Sorry raptorski, you're right, it does carry the r-27s though the r-77s carriage by IAF Mig 29s have not been confirmed by the IAF. Also it has a laser/thermal ranging device which is passive and thus is a whole lot more advantAGEOUS . Right now there really is no comparison between the f-16 A/B and the Mig 29. It would shoot the f-16 far before the f-16 could get into firing range of their aim 9ls . Once the block 52 and aim 120c comes in, we may have to re assess

 

[beckham]

Sorry raptorski, you're right, it does carry the r-27s though the r-77s carriage by IAF Mig 29s have not been confirmed by the IAF. Also it has a laser/thermal ranging device which is passive and thus is a whole lot more advantAGEOUS . Right now there really is no comparison between the f-16 A/B and the Mig 29. It would shoot the f-16 far before the f-16 could get into firing range of their aim 9ls . Once the block 52 and aim 120c comes in, we may have to re assess

Bro, even IAF Mig -21's carry them !

An R-77 on a MiG-21 Bison:One of the first pictures that showed an RVV-AEE fitted to a MiG-21 Bison - from 2002.

The first two aircraft (C-2777 and C-2769) which were upgraded in Russia, did their first test flight on October 6th, 1998. Trials of the medium-range Vympel R-73RDM2 and the Beyond Visual Range (BVR) Vympel R-77/RVV-AEE air-to-air missiles were conducted in February 1999. The formidable combination of the Phazatron Kopyo (Spear) light weight multi-mode radar with that of the Missiles proved a success, the subsonic target drone aircraft being destroyed by a R-77 fired from 6km away. In all the two prototypes were believed to have done nearly 200 test flights.

After the two prototype aircraft have returned to India in July 2001, the HAL manufacture of the Upgraded MiGs from the supplied kits commenced. The first HAL built MiG-21 commenced taxi trials on August 27th , 2001. The first test flights of the HAL upgraded MiG-21Bis (C-2794) happened on August 31st, 2001. As more and more Aircraft were being upgraded, the privilege of being the first unit to fly these 21st century MiG-21s went to the Cobras. Somewhere around this time the decision to add a Suffix ‘U’ to the Alphabetical portion of the Serial was taken – to differentiate from the earlier Bis. Thus C-2794 would become CU-2794 etc.

Wg Cdr RK Dhir, who had been associated with the UPG program arrived from Russia to take command of the Squadron on July 23rd, 2001. The Cobras got a glimpse of their first UPG, the HAL Assembled one, when it came here in September. It was bought there to take part in the AFD 2001 Parade at Palam in October. The Indian and International media got thier first close glimpse of the aircraft on this occasion.

By the end of the year, five pilots were selected for the Conversion course and sent to Bangalore for Simulator training and to Ojhar for flying training. At that time the pilots referred to the UPG as ‘BUG’ - abbreviation for Bison Up Grade. Conversion training at Bangalore was ten ‘sorties’ on the Systems Integration Rig – the simulator. Thereon the pilots moved to Ozhar AFS at Nashik and flew five sorties each on the UPG.

The pilots termed the aircraft as a ‘revelation’ – They were most impressed by the avionics and new systems, though the airframe and engine were the same. All five pilots reported the change as ‘fantastic’.