MiG-21s & F-7s Specifications & Capabilities

[SQ8]

can't say exactly which but it could be either F-7PG or Mig-21Bison. @Oscar and @Manticore can say more about it.
PS: Bison can fire medium range BVR missiles like R-77 and R-27. It has a HMS(Helmet mounted sight) too.

The Bison is the better BVR Machine since its based on the larger nose of the third generation Mig-21.

 

[Armstrong]

The Bison is the better BVR Machine since its based on the larger nose of the third generation Mig-21.

I read somewhere that in WVR Fights the Bison is easily outmatched by the F-7 PGs - Is there truth in that ?

 

[SQ8]

I read somewhere that in WVR Fights the Bison is easily outmatched by the F-7 PGs - Is there truth in that ?

That is quite true, The F-7PG will fly circles around the Bison. That being said, both aircraft are armed with Helmet mounted displays and off boresight seekers which gives an even playing field on the first shot to both. Just as with the LCA and JF-17.. the one who is able to take the first shot wins.. If each survives the first shot.. then the Bison is essentially dead.

 

[Armstrong]

That is quite true, The F-7PG will fly circles around the Bison. That being said, both aircraft are armed with Helmet mounted displays and off boresight seekers which gives an even playing field on the first shot to both. Just as with the LCA and JF-17.. the one who is able to take the first shot wins.. If each survives the first shot.. then the Bison is essentially dead.

Yaraa then tell me a couple of things :

(i) I also recall reading somewhere that the F-7 PGs even defeated F-16s in a couple of dog-fights; would they then still have Operational Relevance today & in the next (say!) 10 years !

(ii) Would they - the PGs - have relevance perhaps not that much Operationally but when it comes to designing WVR Tactics as part of our Training ? In a way pitting an agile air platform against another to come up with newer tactics or refining the old ones ?

 

[SQ8]

Yaraa then tell me a couple of things :

(i) I also recall reading somewhere that the F-7 PGs even defeated F-16s in a couple of dog-fights; would they then still have Operational Relevance today & in the next (say!) 10 years !

(ii) Would they - the PGs - have relevance perhaps not that much Operationally but when it comes to designing WVR Tactics as part of our Training ? In a way pitting an agile air platform against another to come up with newer tactics or refining the old ones ?

i) The F-7PGs do regularly end up besting F-16s but that is a combination of good aerodynamics and pilot tactics. They have relevance today as they are great WVR fighters and excellent if used within a force mix. Their effectiveness ten years from now is not so certain. As the presence of BVR weaponry makes them less and less relevant.

ii) We already do that with many aircraft. F-7PGs play aggressors and vice versa in DACT training.

 

[Armstrong]

i) The F-7PGs do regularly end up besting F-16s but that is a combination of good aerodynamics and pilot tactics. They have relevance today as they are great WVR fighters and excellent if used within a force mix. Their effectiveness ten years from now is not so certain. As the presence of BVR weaponry makes them less and less relevant.

Thanks !

And you're certain that no cost-effective out of box solution would be able to give them a new life-line by dealing with that cramped nose-cone & the inability to install a better radar ?

 

[SQ8]

Thanks !

And you're certain that no cost-effective out of box solution would be able to give them a new life-line by dealing with that cramped nose-cone & the inability to install a better radar ?

No cost effective solution. A replacement would be the F-7MF but then there is no room for that type when JF-17s are slated to replace most squadrons.

 

[MilSpec]

That is quite true, The F-7PG will fly circles around the Bison.

How? Seems like similar aerodynamic performance doesn't suggest flying circles or am I missing something.

Also note Turmansky r25's have better dry thrust almost 10 KN ,and marginally better afterburner than the LW 13F. Thus with same flight surface, Bison will be more responsive than the F7PG, also Bisons rate of climb is more than the F7 and to add bison has more combat radius compared to the F7 which translates to more efficient bypass on the engine, i.e. more afterburner time in engagement....

 

[SQ8]

How? Seems like similar aerodynamic performance doesn't suggest flying circles or am I missing something.

Yes you are, there is no similiar aerodynamic performance when it comes to the standard winged(and also heavier) Mig-21 Bison when compared to the double delta F-7PG. Better turn rate.. better high alpha manoeuvrability.. and if basic loaded weights are taken... better T/W I believe.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Yes you are, there is no similiar aerodynamic performance when it comes to the standard winged(and also heavier) Mig-21 Bison when compared to the double delta F-7PG. Better turn rate.. better high alpha manoeuvrability.. and if basic loaded weights are taken... better T/W I believe.

but the thing is Bisons accelarates better has more range can carry more and has better radar and BVR package than the F7s cause all that so caled "aplha manouverability" F7s (The F-7PG will fly circles around the Bison.)cant escape a speeding derby or python missile from a bison which also has better EW suite and counter measures than F7

so Bisons are better in a one to one fight with F7s any day

 

[Bilal.]

55 km max search range of grifo 7 mg vs 57 km for kopyo, both for 5m2 targets, that isn't hell of a difference in radar capabilities as some are thinking...

 

[SQ8]

but the thing is Bisons accelarates better has more range can carry more and has better radar and BVR package than the F7s cause all that so caled "aplha manouverability" F7s (The F-7PG will fly circles around the Bison.)cant escape a speeding derby or python missile from a bison which also has better EW suite and counter measures than F7

so Bisons are better in a one to one fight with F7s any day

Neither can the Bison escape the WVR missile on the PG. Bisons are going to be better than the PG in BVR.. not so in WVR. And please avoid stupid smilies in technical discussions. Makes you look like a troll rather than someone who wants to have intelligent talk.. and you know what I do to trolls.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Neither can the Bison escape the WVR missile on the PG. Bisons are going to be better than the PG in BVR.. not so in WVR. And please avoid stupid smilies in technical discussions. Makes you look like a troll rather than someone who wants to have intelligent talk.. and you know what I do to trolls.

well Whats the point oscar sirji of having a BVR cause when a F7 gets to know that a BVR is already locked on it and coming its way well before its fires its WVR its pilot has to eject cause modern BVRs like derby and R 77 are much much better than what they use to be a decade ago

maybe im wrong care to explain

 

[NKVD]

not so in WVR

why is that so Elaborate that Yr F-7 Pg is have better chance Give tech details too convince me you can

 

[SQ8]

well Whats the point oscar sirji of having a BVR cause when a F7 gets to know that a BVR is already locked on it and coming its way well before its fires its WVR its pilot has to eject cause modern BVRs like derby and R 77 are much much better than what they use to be a decade ago

maybe im wrong care to explain

That is true, but then the F-7PG has a different role in its warfighitng doctrine. Specifically to avoid the BVR fight. How that is possible is known only to the operator. More importantly.. none of these assets fight alone. Much like the Bison embedded within a strike formation.. the PG is designed to go embedded within a different interception force and engage WVR.

why is that so Elaborate that Yr F-7 Pg is have better chance Give tech details too convince me you can

I have already stated on the aerodynamics. Please read up on the aircrafts and ask doubts. I have no need to be a school teacher to every new tom, daud and hari.