MiG-21s & F-7s Specifications & Capabilities

[Cornered Tiger]

Hi,

@markhoor has started a great thread----now look what the paf made china do---an average F7M modified and upgrade to an F7PG---and the F7PG is as close to the F16 as it can get in close combat.

So---what is the limitation over here---the nose cone of the F7's----not much modofications can be done with it.

But now---we have an average aircraft in the shape and form of a JH7 / JH7A---a twin engine heavy strike aircraft---tandom seating---based on the design of an Aardvark----.

The frame has a massive upgrade capacity---wings can be modified to bear more load or leave them as such---conformal tanks added if need be----a massive nose cone that can mount the largest aesa radar in the chinese inventory----enough space to mount a dedicated IRST---.

Now most of the stuff has been upgraded and the aircraft is called the JH7B in it final form.

If paf can have its 80's vintage F16's modified and upgraded to BLk52 standars minus conformal fuel tanks----where lies the problem with the JH7B----.

If in a moment of desperation---the paf decides to go for the F7PG---a modified F7M---where is the reasoning for not targetting the JH7B---.

It is the same dilema of the 90's---then we needed a fighter interceptor and we found hardly any----now we need a heavy platform and we find ourselves in the same situation.

JH7B concept

Perfect long range fighter to support Pakistan Navy (force projection in Arabian Sea) & to have a capable Fighter Bomber.

Pakistan's EEZ Coverage. Distance from PAF Base Masroor

 

[Samlee]

only people who use this argument are the ones who know that they have lost the race in technological terms.
u cant put a ace in ww2 plane and expect him to shoot down a newer jet even if its pilot is stupid.

We Have Lost The Race???? Do You Have Any Idea What Swamp Your IAF Is In????

India’s New Fighters Have Serious Engine Problems — War Is Boring — Medium

IAF clueless about what's causing bulk of its aircraft to crash - timesofindia-economictimes

Why are India's air force planes falling out of the sky? - BBC News

Indian Air Force grounds Dhruv advanced light helicopter fleet following crash - Airforce Technology

 

[mkb95]

We have quite capable fleet with worlds best pilot JF-17 (I,II), F-16 (A,B & C,D 52+), Mirages and F7PG, just a roar in the air send chills in spine of our arch enemy.

then i can only imagine what su30mki,mig29upg,m2k,mig29k,jaguar,tejas,mig-27,mig-21bis does to our enemies.

We Have Lost The Race???? Do You Have Any Idea What Swamp Your IAF Is In????

India’s New Fighters Have Serious Engine Problems — War Is Boring — Medium

IAF clueless about what's causing bulk of its aircraft to crash - timesofindia-economictimes

Why are India's air force planes falling out of the sky? - BBC News

Indian Air Force grounds Dhruv advanced light helicopter fleet following crash - Airforce Technology

you would know about that if u had as large af as us.
Russia's MiG-29 Fighter Jets Grounded After Yet Another Crash | Business | The Moscow Times
The F-35 Fleet Was Grounded Again for the Bajillionth Time
Air Force grounds 82 F-16 fighter jets after cracks found near cockpit - LA Times
F-15 fleet grounded after a jet falls apart - LA Times
IAF F-16 crashes - fleet grounded until further notice
well these proves pak is ahead of usa,russia and israel in aircraft technology.no doubt about that.

 

[Samlee]

then i can only imagine what su30mki,mig29upg,m2k,mig29k,jaguar,tejas,mig-27,mig-21bis does to our enemies.

you would know about that if u had as large af as us.
Russia's MiG-29 Fighter Jets Grounded After Yet Another Crash | Business | The Moscow Times
The F-35 Fleet Was Grounded Again for the Bajillionth Time
Air Force grounds 82 F-16 fighter jets after cracks found near cockpit - LA Times
F-15 fleet grounded after a jet falls apart - LA Times
IAF F-16 crashes - fleet grounded until further notice
well these proves pak is ahead of usa,russia and israel in aircraft technology.no doubt about that.

Your MiG Fleet Had The Reputation of Being "flying coffins" Since the 1970s.Posting All Those Links You Just Prove My Point Thanx A Lot

I Don't Know Who We Are Ahead Of Or Behind But We Are Definitely Better Than IAF When It Comes To Fleet Maintenance and Management

 

[Windjammer]

@MaarKhoor , good work, very informative indeed.

 

[mkb95]

Your MiG Fleet Had The Reputation of Being "flying coffins" Since the 1970s.Posting All Those Links You Just Prove My Point Thanx A Lot

I Don't Know Who We Are Ahead Of Or Behind But We Are Definitely Better Than IAF When It Comes To Fleet Maintenance and Management

of course,you are better then iaf in Maintenance and Management since it doesnt matter how many dual engine heavy fighter anybody uses or how many flying hours pilots get or how old airframe is.RIGHT?
srsly,it was "flying coffin" in 70's
we had 10 crashes of mig 21(MiG_21_India in 70's out of 100's we operated(wiki).which is in no way a high crash rate.

 

[Saifullah]

of course,you are better then iaf in Maintenance and Management since it doesnt matter how many dual engine heavy fighter anybody uses or how many flying hours pilots get or how old airframe is.RIGHT?
srsly,it was "flying coffin" in 70's
we had 10 crashes of mig 21(MiG_21_India in 70's out of 100's we operated(wiki).which is in no way a high crash rate.

Hello

The link you have provided is stating this :

No exact figures of MiG-21 accidents exist in the public domain.
Those that do are confusing.
Of the (793 - 872) [confirm exact number]
MiG-21s inducted into IAF since 1963,
over (340 - 380) [confirm exact number]
have been lost in crashes.
[ Over the last 40 years, India had lost more than half of its MiG combat fleet of 872 aircraft. The minister disclosed that '482 MiG aircraft accidents took place till April 19, 2012'. Antony also revealed that these crashes led to the loss of precious lives of 171 pilots, 39 civilians and eight persons from other services. source -The Rajya Sabha]

Regards

 

[volatile]

If paf can have its 80's vintage F16's modified and upgraded to BLk52 standars minus conformal fuel tanks----where lies the problem with the JH7B----.

Problem will be MLU kits are designed by LM and associated companies .PAF only did was pick and choose from a wide range of applications at that time .Problem with the JH7B is redesigning a new plane and the moment the era for 4++ Gen will be over in next 10 years so this is mere a 3rd Gen platform

 

[MastanKhan]

Problem will be MLU kits are designed by LM and associated companies .PAF only did was pick and choose from a wide range of applications at that time .Problem with the JH7B is redesigning a new plane and the moment the era for 4++ Gen will be over in next 10 years so this is mere a 3rd Gen platform

Hi,

There is a similar MLU kit for the JH7B---paf can pick and chose what it needs.

What difference does it make with the platform---when you have the 4 - 4.5 gen technology mounted on it. The platform is just a conduit---a carrier----.

There is no reason to re-design the aircraft---it can carry around 10000 kg load---.

In 10 years time you might just start to get the 5th gen---and it will take another 8---10 years to integrate if not 15 years---.

The 4th and 4.5 gen aircraft are good for another 30 years.

JH7B concept

Hi,

That concept is not needed---. The original aircraft with a complete cockpit, electronics and engine upgrade will do fine.

 

[cloud_digger]

I thought it was a decent article in the beginning until i got to the kargil portion. Especially the one about the mig 29 pilot. It started going into Tom Clancy's territory after that. No real substance and more chest thumping.

"Gaurav had a wry smile on his face"...that right there killed the article and it went downhill from there. How the f*** did the author know Gaurav was smiling or sniggering or what not?

 

[Tipu7]

Its pretty Big aircraft ..................... JH 7 Flying Leopard ...... first flew in 1988 and become operational in 2004............. not so Old .............

@MastanKhan it uses twin WS09 engines............. Are you fine with that? What if we integrate RD93 and same AESA in this plane which we are getting for Blk3 Jf17? Is it even possible?

 

[CHI RULES]

JH 7 A2A capabilities are pathetic. They are not agile enough. Mere bomb trucks may be afforded by big navies not good for PN use. The Su35 or J series are viable options for Pak if available.

 

[Saifullah]

Its pretty Big aircraft ..................... JH 7 Flying Leopard ...... first flew in 1988 and become operational in 2004............. not so Old .............

@MastanKhan it uses twin WS09 engines............. Are you fine with that? What if we integrate RD93 and same AESA in this plane which we are getting for Blk3 Jf17? Is it even possible?

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Asalam O Alikum

WS-9 engine is licensed manufacturing name of Rolls-Royce Spey RB.168 Mk.202, So it is reliable but tech is old.

Swap of RD93MK/RD33MK or WS-13 can be done if one wants it to be. The performance will be enhanced by swapping the engine.

It can/will house the biggest AESA china is producing for Fighter Aircrafts.

Ideal version of JH-7 would be which incorporates following changes:
1- DSI
2- Gripen NG inspired landing gear arrangement
3- F16 Blk 52D inspired Spine
4- Engine swap with RD93MK or WS13 or WS17 (which ever finds its way to J31 and JF17) all of them are same class engines.

The benefits of above changes
1- RCS reduction, Weight reduction, Increase in Reliability, Easy of manufacturing, reduction of maintenance cost and increase in AC performance.
2- Increase in internal Fuel and have the potential to add one more hard point under fuselage.
3- It can be used to for more fuel tanks or better use will be the EW stuff.
4- Reduction of weight by roughly 1600 Kgs, better fuel consumption, Decrease in cost and Easy of maintenance.

The purposed changes are not huge as we have seen JF-17 going from none DSI to DSI, JAS 39 to Gripen NG and Spine would not be that bigger challenge. Purposed changes will make JH-7 approximately 2000 Kgs lighter and if we add Composites material as being done in JH-7B it may gets more lighter and it may increase its payload.Add all the JH-7B electronics and stuff. In All it will increase the jet performance overall by ~25-30% compared to JH-7. This will be a hell of Aircraft.

Regards

 

[MastanKhan]

Its pretty Big aircraft ..................... JH 7 Flying Leopard ...... first flew in 1988 and become operational in 2004............. not so Old .............

@MastanKhan it uses twin WS09 engines............. Are you fine with that? What if we integrate RD93 and same AESA in this plane which we are getting for Blk3 Jf17? Is it even possible?

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Hi,

The aesa for the JH7B could be 1.5---2.2 times larger than that on the JF17---.

The aesa on the JF17 would have around 750---1000 T/R modules---. The aesa on the JH7B could mount one with around 1600 T/R modules----.

You guys make too much issue with power and G forces and agility----. It is great to have agility---but that is not the end of the world---it is better to have massive jamming capabilities---a quality ECM pod---missile launch detector and warning system---quality aesa radar---and all the other sensors and good stuff that is a part and package of a modern strike aircraft---with a modern glass cockpit---.

With 4 plus hours of loiter time and a load capacity of 10000KG---an abilitity to fire every BVR and other missiles in the chinese stock---an ability to load up 12 BVR missiles or 2 CM400AKG's or a plethora of combinations---this aircraft is an ideal platform for the pakistan navy.

And with its Growler type capabilities---it would be a great asset for the air force when flying missions in support of the JF17's and the F16's---.

Pakistan air force needs to re-start its bomber / strike aircraft sqdrn---its failure to do so is tantamount to negligence and carelessness---.

There is nothing out there that is better than this aircraft in ITS PRICE RANGE.

 

[MastanKhan]

JH 7 A2A capabilities are pathetic. They are not agile enough. Mere bomb trucks may be afforded by big navies not good for PN use. The Su35 or J series are viable options for Pak if available.

Sir,

That is all you have to say against the aircraft in all your posts---you have learnt nothing else to say----.

You are totally clueless as to what the A2A capabilities can be with modern day fire control radar---state of the art ECM package----capable BVR-WVR missiles and HOBS missiles---anti radiation paint.

This " Current Weapons & Electronic Technology Revolution " is of the same scale in this part of the 21st century as compared to when the AK47 became THE EQUALIZER WEAPON of the 20th century in the last century---.