MiG-21s & F-7s Specifications & Capabilities

[Blue Marlin]

I didn't notice his pic but he is the former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, for the US armed forces. The UK equivalent is the Chief of the Defence Staff.

thanks the pic i am referring to is the pic of the mk2 being shown to him. why is it being shown to him?

 

[Maarkhoor]

thanks the pic i am referring to is the pic of the mk2 being shown to him. why is it being shown to him?

Because Indian claims that the locked on F-16 while Pakistan can't may be he ask about this to Pakistani counterparts and they showed the picture to prove that they are (Indians) laying.

 

[Desertfalcon]

thanks the pic i am referring to is the pic of the mk2 being shown to him. why is it being shown to him?

I don't know.

 

[araz]

nobody is saying that its a less capable fighter then any of u make it out to be.but it is a rabbit if u compare it to f22 like the article did.
u can do a rally great job against f22 and can earn the praise of f22 pilot but saying it has a fighting chance against f22 is bit overconfidence.
if its not true then every single airforce is stupid to invest billions in making new fighter jet when they can upgrade ancient ones and make them comparable to newer jets.

Read the article again. No one is suggesting we gained against the raptor, we are just saying that the PAF pilots gave a good account of themselves which was appreciated by thew Raptor pilots. Only an idiot would suggest that the raptor will lose to the PG.
A

 

[Paksanity]

Air Chief said all F-7s and Mirage aircraft will be replaced by 2020. I would personally think 2022 perhaps. I have this hunch that F-7PG may be replaced by used F-16s between year 2020-2022 in similar role. That's when F-35 will go on full rate production and F-16s Block 25-40 will become available.

 

[New World]

thanks the pic i am referring to is the pic of the mk2 being shown to him. why is it being shown to him?

because Adm. mike mullen was advocating that if IAF conduct airstrikes in Pakistan PAF has to remain silent. and CAS gen. kiyani shown pic taken by the F-16 during hostilities where M2K was being locked by missile's of F-16 and Kiyani says to mullen that if IAF fighters intrude in Pak air space they will be shot downed..

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

It is understood that the pilots are able and capable---but it is not fair not to have the right equipment for them to do a better job.

 

[Hamza913]

A second intrusion occured seven and a half hours later, at approximately 10:00 a.m. (1000 hours) PST, when two IAF fighter jets violated Pakistan's airspace in the Mushkoh-Olding sector in Jammu & Kashmir. Two F-7MPs were immediately scrambled from a forward PAF air base to intercept the two intruders. However, the IAF MiG-21BiS, sensing the PAF fighters fast approaching them, turned back and fled into Indian-held Kashmir before the PAF interceptors could get a missile lock-on them.

In both cases, the IAF intruders had taken off from Srinagar air base, according to PAF GCI controllers.

The movie of the HUD was examined by external experts, and is still shown in the CCS. The positioning of aircraft in a perfect by the GCI was commendable, and the way IAF fighters, identified as MiG-27ML exited the scene was morale booster for every PAF pilot who saw that engagement.

PAF was satisfied on the job its pilots had done i.e. keep IAF out of Pakistan Airspace. Indian media in their over enthusiasm started to target PAF, which angered the PAF CAS. According to the Indian media, IAF Mirages and MiG-29s usually locked on PAF F-16s with BVR missiles, due to which the F-16s fled, with their pilots shaken off and some of them resigning from the PAF.

The PAF CAS invited all the international millitary attaches and observers which were in Pakistan, and responded to this news by showing all the F-16 pilots in front of the them and the media. None of them had retired, and neither of them was low on morale. Infact they had something to show to the attaches and observers, the HUD movie of two instances when Indian Aircraft actually tried to lock PAF F-16s.
According to the first HUD movie, and other evidences (Pilot-GCI conversation, Enemy Radar Intercepts):

IAF Mirage-2000 aircraft attempted a lock-on at a PAF F-16A. The PAF F-16 immediately dropped down from 20,000 ft to hardly 5000 ft over the terrain and deployed a cloud of chaff. His A/A radar went in standby mode. The Mirage pilot thought that the F-16 had ran away when the F-16 tried to close in on him using the cover of the mountains and valleys. The F-16 closed in on the Mirage but at 15 nm distance the Mirage pilot again tracked the Viper closing in fast. Equipped with only two Magic-2s, the Mirage pilot banked sharply increasing the range to 20 nm and disengaged with full afterburners.


According to the second HUD movie, and other concrete evidences (Pilot-GCI conversation, Enemy Radar Intercepts):

Armed with four AA-10 and two Magic-2 [or probably AA-11] missiles, Gaurav Chibber a MiG-29 pilot acquired a lock on at two PAF F-16As orbiting over Skardu. The F-16s at once repeated their drill of engine to idle thrust, deploying a cloud of chaff and dropping down from 20,000ft to 5000ft AGL with AA Radar on standby mode. Gaurav Chibber had a wry smile on his face under his helmet when he loosed the lock-on. Angry with the avionics Gaurav again searched for the Vipers when he felt that the avionics of his aircraft had jammed. Gaurav tried all methods and probably had his A/A Radar functional again when he saw no sign of any aircraft in his radar. He felt something suspicious and decided to move out. As he started his way back to the base he saw two tracks appearing suddenly on his A/A Radar from behind. He quickly took evasive action but was relieved that he is well inside his territory and the tracks turned back in Pakistan. As fate would have it, F/L Gaurav Chibber met his end when the same Mig-29, he was flying in the above mission, crashed in Bilaspur distric of Himachal Pardesh on August 6, 1999.

OPERATION SENTINEL (02)
The PAF took in its stride the 10 Month War Alert with India during 2002 when New Delhi unsuccesfully attempted a coerction strategy against Pakistan through its "Operation Parakram".

IAF threatened Pakistan that it would use Mirage-2000, Jaguars, MiG-27s, MiG-29s and MiG-21s against specified targets inside Pakistan airspace [Azad Kashmir]. PAF CAS ACM Mushaf Ali Mir challenged the Indian Airforce to just try and enter our airspace.


To counter the threat posed by India's forward deployed forces and combat aircraft, all PAF support units, wings, bases, and commands of the PAF easily moved into "Operation Sentinel" of their own, assuming holding and improving upon their assigned readiness states throughout the year.

On 16 Oct 2002 India decided to back down. Thus PAF defenders once again responded swiftly and proved its mettle again, this time against heavy odds.

Once again the primary weapon fielded by PAF was its fleet of F-7MP/PGs. As promised in 1999, the whole PAF was in the air within 5 minutes when an enemy raid was detected near the border indicating a pre-emptive strike.

It was 1500 hours PST, and the date was 19th December 2001. The people in Rawalpindi and Islamabad were on their routine when the air was filled with a majestic noise. As the people looked up they saw four F-7MPs flying overhead in battle formation. This noise continued for an hour as the F-7MPs landed on Chaklala AFB. Anti aircraft guns were also seen on the surroundings while SAMs were mobilized. Soon afterwards, Rawalpindi and Islamabad came under 24 hour CAP by the F-7s and was witnessed by the public.

During the first month of Operation Sentinel, at leat 20 times the F-7MPs from Chaklala were scrambled and on a few occasions people could clearly see the underbelly drop tank, two AIM-9L Sidewinders and two missles of unknown type [the missle was of white colour and was larger then the sidewinder].

Eqipped with latest powerful radar and the newly integrated night vision, the F-7s were ready to take out any IAF aircraft which even dared to cross the border within a couple of minutes notice.
The F-7MP/PGs conducted day/night CAP sorties throughout Operation Sentinel, and were occasionally scrambled if anything IAF aircraft neared the border. They also conducted VIDs on every aircraft which had to come from the East and Southern directions of Pakistan.

Operation Sentinel was a victory for PAF, as it was for their timely action that IAF couldn't perform any misadventure. During a couple of times, when IAF aircraft violated Pakistan airspace, they were downed/damaged by PAF air defences.
All the credit goes to every unit of PAF, especially F-16 and F-7 units, which performed up to their optimum limit and once again made the PAF, 'Pride of their nation'.

PAKISTAN INDIA MILITARY STANDOFF (08)
The Mumbai attacks were more than ten coordinated shooting and bombing attacks across Mumbai, India's largest city, by terrorists. The attacks, which drew widespread condemnation across the world, began on 26 November 2008 and lasted until 29 November, killing at least 173 people and wounding at least 308. Though India accuses Pakistan in these attacks the reality is another way round.
India was already cornering Pakistan and was waiting for a time in which it could slash Pakistan. Indian secret services RAW along with the Israeli secret service MOSSAD prepared a malicious plan. RAW recruited some Pakistanis by offering them incentives which would benefit them. After that they trained them and transported them to India, with full cooperation with the Indian Armed Forces. Thus when the Mumbai Attacks were still being carried out, the Indian Prime Minister immediately blamed Pakistan for this incident. In short Mumbai Attack originated from an Indian mind and was carried out and funded by the Indians themselves. The way the Indians behaved with the Pakistanis in India at that time is an ample proof of this.
After the Mumbai Attacks, the Indian Government supported by Indian Media slashed a campaign against Pakistan, to let the world believe that Pakistani Government and Military is behind the Mumbai Attacks. At this stage, the war gurus and stats were in favour of surgical strikes conducted by IAF, with ex-IAF personnel and Indian politicians insisting in front of the international media for the IAF aircraft to strike targets inside Pakistan and demoralize the Pakistani public. Thus Pranab Mukherjee set a deadline that until or unless Pakistan Government will not accept these attacks they will have to face the wrath of IAF.

Your post was good, expect for that last part about the Mumbai attacks.

 

[Bhupendra Singh_Cyan]

Just like the earlier Italian FIAR Grifo-Mk-II radar on F-7MP/P, the Italian FIAR Grifo-MG radar of F-7PG will be assembled under license by the ISO - 9002 certified Kamra avionics, Electronics and Radar Factory of the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC).

PAF operated a force of 300 F-7MP/PG at optimum strength in 2008 (CATIC provides PAF with attrition replacements which would remain effective by 2010, when PAF would start replacing the aircraft, with JF-17 Thunders).
F-7 (MiG-21) in Combat
Since 1990 till to-date, their were three occasions, when their was the danger of a full scale military conflict between Pakistan & India, which are:

OPERATION BEDAAR (98)
OPERATION KARGIL (99)
OPERATION SENTINEL (02)
PAKISTAN INDIA STANDOFF (08)

Apart from these operations, PAF F-7 pilots were trained to gain 'Air Superiority' against any armed conflict with India and Israel. The F-7Ps regularly had to face F-16A/Bs, Mirage-IIIEPs and Mirage-VPA2/3 in air-to-air combat, whereas occasionaly faced F-14s, F-15Cs, FA-18s, Mirage-2000s, MiG-29s and Su-27s in mock excercises, operated by friendly airforces. Strategies were devised, extensively practiced and regularly updated against each aircraft which were thought to challenge the F-7Ps in real time conflict.

The first occassion, when an F-7P was scrambled was in May 1997. Two F-7Ps were scrambled to intercept an Indian MiG-25R Foxbat. Though other PAF aircraft were also scrambled, the Indian aircraft was quick to exit as it was flying over the border and did'nt penetrated deep inside the Pakistani Airspace.

OPERATION BEDAAR (98)
PAF was hit by a deadly string of air accidents in 1997, which mostly included F-6s and F-7MPs. All the F-7MP fleet was grounded and the fault was rectified. Until then the squadrons operating F-7s were re-equipped with reserve F-6s.

By May 1998, three squadrons were cleared to fly the F-7MPs again. This included No.14, No. 15 and No. 20 Squadrons.

After the Indian nuclear tests of 13 May 1998, Pakistan felt that there was a strong possibility of a joint Indo-Israeli strike against Pakistan's nuclear installations. The PAF had an essential role to play in defending Pakistan's strategic installations and airspace to thwart any such plan.

As soon as the decision to conduct the nuclear tests had been taken, the PAF was ordered to assume air defence duties over Chagai and the strategic nuclear installations of Pakistan, including Kahuta, Nilore, Fatehjung, Chashma, Khushab and Karachi.

No. 14 MR Squadron “The Tail Choppers”, equipped with F-7P aircraft and based at PAF Sargodha, commanded by Wg. Cdr. M. Jamshaid Khan, was deployed at PAF Base Chaklala for the point defence of KRL, Kahuta, PINSTECH, Nilore, NDC, and Fatehjung.

No. 15 Squadron "Cobras", equipped with F-7P aircraft was deployed in detachments along Peshawar, Risalpur and Kamra and performed CAP missions defending these bases.

During May 1998, Dalbandin air field became the centre of activity for all personnel, military and civilian, flying to and from the nuclear tests sites to the rest of the country.

The nuclear devices were themselves flown in semi-knocked down (SKD) sub-assembly form on two flights of PAF C-130 Hercules tactical transport aircraft from PAF Chaklala in northern Punjab to Dalbandin airfield, escorted even within Pakistani airspace by four PAF F-16As armed with air-to-air missiles. At the same time, PAF F-7P air defence fighters, also armed with air-to-air missiles, were on CAP guarding the aerial frontiers of Pakistan against intruders.

Both the nuclear devices (the bomb mechanism, the HMX explosive shields and casing) and the fissile material (the highly enriched uranium components) were divided into separate consignments and flown on separate flights of the Hercules. The PAEC did not want to put all its nuclear eggs in one basket in case something adverse was to happen to the aircraft. The security of the devices and the fissile material was so strict that that PAF F-16 escort pilots had been secretly given standing orders that in the unlikely event of the C-130 being hijacked or flown outside of Pakistani airspace, they were to shoot down the aircraft before it left Pakistan’s airspace. The F-16s were ordered to escort the C-130s to the Dalbandin airfield in Balochistan with their radio communications equipment turned off so that no orders, in the interim, could be conveyed to them to act otherwise. They were also ordered to ignore any orders to the contrary that got through to them during the duration of the flight even if such orders seemingly originated from Air Headquarters.

On 30 May 1998, when Pakistan sixth nuclear device shook the ground in the Kharan Desert, Operation Bedaar '98 had accomplished its mission - that of deterring any misadventure by either India or Israel to strike at Pakistan's nuclear infrastructure.

OPERATION KARGIL (99)
By the end of 98, the F-7P fleet reached the mark of 100% operational status, thus relieveing most of the F-6 units. It was when out of 'no where' the Kargil War started. PAF CAS was quite angry with the Army Chief that he has not taken the Airforce and Navy Chief in confidence before starting the conflict.

However, PAF High Command decided that since their is the danger of any retaliatory strikes by IAF inside Pakistan, the whole airforce was brought to the status of 'Red Alert'.

F-16 Fighting Falcons shifted into the Skardu Forward Operational Base. These F-16s had undergone Falcon Upgrades, thanks to the co’operation of Egypt and Turkey, and were prepared to take on the IAF fighters and transport aircraft thus foiling Indian attempts to drop paratroopers behind enemy lines.

A-5s from Peshawar also joined the Vipers. Rest of the Pakistan Airforce was deployed as the same manner as it was in Operation Bedaar ’98, with the F-7Ps taking the duties from the F-6, relegating the F-6 to low level defence of VP/VAs.

On 6th June 1999, a press release from PAF stated to the International Media:

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has been put on 'red alert' due to the increasingly tense situation between Pakistan and India in the disputed territory of Jammu & Kashmir.

The PAF is now in a state of combat readiness at all times and is ready to meet any eventuality that may arise in the coming days. "We are ready for any eventuality" said a PAF officer whose name has been withheld. "Insha'Allah, we will not disappoint the nation".

PAF air defence fighters, mainly F-7MPs, are maintaining 24 hour 'round-the-clock' Combat Air Patrols (CAPs) on the whole international border between Pakistan and India as well as on the Line of Control (LoC) in Jammu & Kashmir. The PAF is also conducting CAPs along its coast on the Arabian Sea.

The PAF has the capability to put 200 combat aircraft in the air within a span of 5 minutes of the orders coming in to scramble", remarked a PAF officer.

The PAF's F-7MP air defence fighters are standing on the operational readiness platform (ORP) ramps of the runways in over 30 air fields of Pakistan with pilots sitting inside the cockpits ready to scramble within seconds.

In some of the PAF's forward operational bases (FOBs), PAF F-7MP air defence fighters are on 'hot scramble alert' i.e. stationed at the end of the runways, with pilots inside the cockpits and the aircraft engines running.

"The PAF is in a defensive posture but we have the capability to transform this defensive posture into an offensive one if the enemy dares to violate Pakistan's territory and airspace.", the PAF officer stated. The PAF has armed all its operational combat aircraft with armaments and equipment for their respective roles. "We do not think the Indians are foolish enough to attack Pakistan, but if they are then they will find us ready", said the PAF officer.
He did not rule out the use of the Pakistan Air Force if the Indian Army crossed the LoC in Jammu & Kashmir. "We are watching every move of theirs, our reconnaissance and surveillance aircraft are watching every move they make, if they cross the LoC they will pay a heavy price for such a misadventure".

He said it will be up to the Pakistan Army to call for air support and air strikes. "This will be the Army's decision", he said.

Asked to comment on the reports that IAF Mirage 2000s were conducting jamming operations against Pakistani radar, the PAF officer remarked "We have better jamming equipment than the Mirage 2000s which they are using. We are using electronic countermeasures to spoil their jamming attempts and we are also jamming their aircraft in return".

He said "our aircraft are conducting counter-jamming as well as jamming of IAF and Indian Army radar in Jammu & Kashmir and we have other high technology specialized aircraft for jamming, counter-jamming, airborne early warning and other electronic intelligence roles which will be activated if the need arises".

He declined to comment on unconfirmed reports that a Saudi AWACS and unknown numbers of Saudi F-15s, UAE Mirage 2000s and Chinese F-7s flown by Pakistan Air Force pilots had arrived in Pakistan. "These are rumours", he added. "Whatever we have, the enemy will find out if they attack us".
In what was a classic pre-dawn interception, air defence interceptors of the Pakistan Air Force, comprising of two PAF F-7MP fighter jets, intercepted and engaged intruding Indian Air Force (IAF) fighter jets which crossed the Line of Control in Jammu & Kashmir and violated Pakistan's airspace by several kilometres. The IAF fighters were believed to be two MiG-27ML ground-attack aircraft and two Mirage 2000H fighters providng top cover. The event took place in the early hours of Thursday, 8 July 1999, at approximately 0230 hours PST.

According to sources, PAF F-7MP fighters were supported by two F-16 Fighting Falcons providing back-up which conducted electronic jamming of the intruder IAF 'bandits'. The F-16s were scrambled whereas the F-7MPs were already on Combat Air Patrol (CAP) duty when the incursion occurred.
The PAF F-7MP air defence interceptors were immediately vectored by GCI towards the intruding 'bandits' within seconds of their crossing into Pakistan airspace. The PAF fighters intercepted the Indian fighters and 'locked' on them with their missiles. In fighter terms, this is an invitation for a dogfight. However, the IAF fighters refused to engage in return and instead fled straight back into the airspace of Indian-held Kashmir in what PAF pilots perceived was sheer panic. "It was not a very orderly or dignified exit", remarked a PAF officer.
According to PAF sources, even the Dynamic Launch Zone (DLZ) perimetres had been met for launching of the air-to-air missiles which means that the PAF pilots had gotten the AAM tone indicating the bandits were well within shoot-down range of the PAF fighters. A missile tone is achieved when the missile's infrared heat-seeker or its radar has picked up the hostile aircraft. "It looks as if we gave them a fright", says a PAF officer, "Their RWR signal would have been blasting off in the cockpits as our interceptors tracked them". If the missiles were short-range heat-seeking missiles, then this would imply that the distance between the PAF and the IAF fighters was less than 10 kilometres - "Too close for comfort", as the PAF officer remarked.

PAF fighters did not shoot down the Indian fighters even though they were within range of the air-to-air missiles of the PAF fighters. The Indian fighters were perilously close to the Line of Control and their wreckage may have fallen inside Indian-held Kashmir territory which, going by their track record, would have given the Indian authorities the opportunity to blame the PAF for the intrusion.

According to the PAF Rules of Engagement (ROE), three conditions have to be met in peacetime before an enemy aircraft can be shot down: (i) the enemy aircraft must violate Pakistan's airspace; (ii) it must be a combat aircraft and (iii) its wreckage must fall inside Pakistani territory. 'Peacetime' in the context of India and Pakistan means when no war has been declared.

In this instance, the third criterion may not have been met as the IAF fighters were too close to the LoC and their wreckage may have fallen on either side of the LoC.

"All the intruder Indian fighters fled when our our air defence fighters locked on them", said a PAF officer.

nice xD

 

[Khafee]

@HRK Sir, request a clean up, and a few bans would help. Indians spewing clueless BS as usual.

Thank You!

Because Indian claims that the locked on F-16 while Pakistan can't may be he ask about this to Pakistani counterparts and they showed the picture to prove that they are (Indians) laying.

Lying as usual. After that photograph, pin drop silence. $hit just got real. Indians lost more than their credibility that day.

As per someone who was in that room.

 

[The Sandman]

Awesome share m8 loved reading it

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

@markhoor has started a great thread----now look what the paf made china do---an average F7M modified and upgrade to an F7PG---and the F7PG is as close to the F16 as it can get in close combat.

So---what is the limitation over here---the nose cone of the F7's----not much modofications can be done with it.

But now---we have an average aircraft in the shape and form of a JH7 / JH7A---a twin engine heavy strike aircraft---tandom seating---based on the design of an Aardvark----.

The frame has a massive upgrade capacity---wings can be modified to bear more load or leave them as such---conformal tanks added if need be----a massive nose cone that can mount the largest aesa radar in the chinese inventory----enough space to mount a dedicated IRST---.

Now most of the stuff has been upgraded and the aircraft is called the JH7B in it final form.

If paf can have its 80's vintage F16's modified and upgraded to BLk52 standars minus conformal fuel tanks----where lies the problem with the JH7B----.

If in a moment of desperation---the paf decides to go for the F7PG---a modified F7M---where is the reasoning for not targetting the JH7B---.

It is the same dilema of the 90's---then we needed a fighter interceptor and we found hardly any----now we need a heavy platform and we find ourselves in the same situation.

 

[Maarkhoor]

Hi,

@markhoor has started a great thread----now look what the paf made china do---an average F7M modified and upgrade to an F7PG---and the F7PG is as close to the F16 as it can get in close combat.

So---what is the limitation over here---the nose cone of the F7's----not much modofications can be done with it.

But now---we have an average aircraft in the shape and form of a JH7 / JH7A---a twin engine heavy strike aircraft---tandom seating---based on the design of an Aardvark----.

The frame has a massive upgrade capacity---wings can be modified to bear more load or leave them as such---conformal tanks added if need be----a massive nose cone that can mount the largest aesa radar in the chinese inventory----enough space to mount a dedicated IRST---.

Now most of the stuff has been upgraded and the aircraft is called the JH7B in it final form.

If paf can have its 80's vintage F16's modified and upgraded to BLk52 standars minus conformal fuel tanks----where lies the problem with the JH7B----.

If in a moment of desperation---the paf decides to go for the F7PG---a modified F7M---where is the reasoning for not targetting the JH7B---.

It is the same dilema of the 90's---then we needed a fighter interceptor and we found hardly any----now we need a heavy platform and we find ourselves in the same situation.

JH7B concept

 

[Burhan Wani]

Well done @MaarKhoor this thread is very informative

 

[fatman17]

Nice job mate