Mid-life upgrade for F22P

[Basel]

Since your adversary is the IN, you will need far more advanced SAMs on your ships. The Russians have made their stuff to beat slow moving AShMs that the West use, so most of the focus will be on detecting the threat rather than intercepting it.

But in your case, you will need far more expensive SAMs, like the VL-MICA-M or CAMM, where the missile has its own RF seeker and datalink.

So there's no point replacing the FL-3000 unless the upgrade is high end. Whether you pick the Tor or the FL-3000, it will only protect you from Uran and Harpoon and not the Klub and Brahmos.

If you really wish to fight the IN, then you will need the PAAMS at the minimum. Even the Chinese HQ-16 is obsolete.

First get your info corrected, PN don't operate FL-3000N also please prove Russian SR-SAMs can not intercept supersonic missiles.

I have posted about replacement of SR-SAM with 360 degree coverage which can be mounted on small vessels of PN, PMSA and Coast Guard which are lightly armed or unarmed.

 

[randomradio]

First get your info corrected, PN don't operate FL-3000N also please prove Russian SR-SAMs can not intercept supersonic missiles.

I know. I was referring to the F-22P upgrade.

And yeah, the Russian SRSAMs cannot stop supersonic missiles. We tested the land based Tor M2 and it was only good enough to stop subsonic cruise missiles. The SPYDER slapped it silly, and even the SPYDER cannot stop Brahmos. Even the IA's requirement for Tor and Pantsir (along with SPYDER-SR) is significantly inferior to what's needed to stop Brahmos. It's only 500m/s. For Klub and Brahmos, you need 1000m/s.

A much better option is to buy the Pantsir-ME. It's better than the Type 730 and also has missiles superior to the Tor. Your ship can carry 4 of these systems, and each system is equipped with 32 missiles that can go up to 20Km. Plus, you save all that deck space, which can be used to carry VLS for either MRSAMs or cruise missiles.

I have posted about replacement of SR-SAM with 360 degree coverage which can be mounted on small vessels of PN, PMSA and Coast Guard which are lightly armed or unarmed.

I was referring to the F-22P upgrade. Your post didn't leave a clue as to what ships you were referring to, so I assumed it's the F22P, based on the thread.

But even those can carry the Pantsir-ME.

 

[Basel]

I know. I was referring to the F-22P upgrade.

And yeah, the Russian SRSAMs cannot stop supersonic missiles. We tested the land based Tor M2 and it was only good enough to stop subsonic cruise missiles. The SPYDER slapped it silly, and even the SPYDER cannot stop Brahmos. Even the IA's requirement for Tor and Pantsir (along with SPYDER-SR) is significantly inferior to what's needed to stop Brahmos. It's only 500m/s. For Klub and Brahmos, you need 1000m/s.

A much better option is to buy the Pantsir-ME. It's better than the Type 730 and also has missiles superior to the Tor. Your ship can carry 4 of these systems, and each system is equipped with 32 missiles that can go up to 20Km. Plus, you save all that deck space, which can be used to carry VLS for either MRSAMs or cruise missiles.



I was referring to the F-22P upgrade. Your post didn't leave a clue as to what ships you were referring to, so I assumed it's the F22P, based on the thread.

But even those can carry the Pantsir-ME.

For MLU of F-22P PN have various options available like Aster-15, CAMM, Sea Captor, Umkunto, DK-10 it's now up to them what they choose, also I referred Tor (latest version) as secondary SAM for F-22P as M2KM is fully portable system and can be used to add more defensive punch if needed and it can be deployed on any ship.

Russian Gun+SAM CIWS can take out supersonic SAMs.

 

[randomradio]

For MLU of F-22P PN have various options available like Aster-15, CAMM, Sea Captor, Umkunto, DK-10 it's now up to them what they choose, also I referred Tor (latest version) as secondary SAM for F-22P as M2KM is fully portable system and can be used to add more defensive punch if needed and it can be deployed on any ship.

Sure, choose the best SAM you can.

Based on IN's upcoming competition for SRSAMs, we will know what standards to apply. Their requirement is to stop Brahmos class missiles.

Russian Gun+SAM CIWS can take out supersonic SAMs.

You mean supersonic cruise missiles. Yes, it can, by accident. All weapons have a kill probability against a specific target and the kill probability against supersonic cruise missiles is extremely low.

You forget that we operate these systems, Kashtan and 2K22 Tunguska. These systems are brilliant against subsonic missiles, but a big fat zero against supersonic missiles.

 

[khanasifm]

https://www.facebook.com/

 

[Incog_nito]

Will the upgraded ones going to carry 16 VLS in front?

 

[Basel]

Sure, choose the best SAM you can.

Based on IN's upcoming competition for SRSAMs, we will know what standards to apply. Their requirement is to stop Brahmos class missiles.



You mean supersonic cruise missiles. Yes, it can, by accident. All weapons have a kill probability against a specific target and the kill probability against supersonic cruise missiles is extremely low.

You forget that we operate these systems, Kashtan and 2K22 Tunguska. These systems are brilliant against subsonic missiles, but a big fat zero against supersonic missiles.

Kindly watch this video and see that Tor can intercept supersonic missiles, which you think it can not do.

Therefore it is good system to field specially the M2KM and later versions

Newer Tor is way more capable with range of 30+km.

 

[randomradio]

Kindly watch this video and see that Tor can intercept supersonic missiles, which you think it can not do.

Therefore it is good system to field specially the M2KM and later versions

Newer Tor is way more capable with range of 30+km.

I'm afraid there's nothing in it to claim it can defeat Klub and Brahmos. Its only demonstrated capability is sea skimming Harpoons.

You got confused by the HARM missile. It does mach 2.1 upon launch, but that's at high altitude and the speed drops drastically as it makes its way towards the target. But it is neither a sea skimmer nor is its impact speed mach 2.8.

Both SPYDER-SR and Tor are capable of taking it out, but nothing faster than that. As I have already pointed out, the systems can take out targets doing 500m/s, maybe 600m/s. You are supersonic at 340m/s.

And the Tor missile's range is not 30Km. Its engagement radar itself doesn't cross 25Km.

If you really want Russian systems, then your best option is Pantsir-ME and Shtil-1 or Shtil-VLS. Both are superior to the Tor, many times superior. Of course, instead of Shtil you can always go for Tor, but that only duplicates the Pantsir's capabilities. There's the HQ-16 also, which is probably the most likely version right now.

But always remember that if you do not get something that has its own seeker and datalink, then 1 Brahmos is all it takes.

 

[Basel]

I'm afraid there's nothing in it to claim it can defeat Klub and Brahmos. Its only demonstrated capability is sea skimming Harpoons.

You got confused by the HARM missile. It does mach 2.1 upon launch, but that's at high altitude and the speed drops drastically as it makes its way towards the target. But it is neither a sea skimmer nor is its impact speed mach 2.8.

Both SPYDER-SR and Tor are capable of taking it out, but nothing faster than that. As I have already pointed out, the systems can take out targets doing 500m/s, maybe 600m/s. You are supersonic at 340m/s.

And the Tor missile's range is not 30Km. Its engagement radar itself doesn't cross 25Km.

If you really want Russian systems, then your best option is Pantsir-ME and Shtil-1 or Shtil-VLS. Both are superior to the Tor, many times superior. Of course, instead of Shtil you can always go for Tor, but that only duplicates the Pantsir's capabilities. There's the HQ-16 also, which is probably the most likely version right now.

But always remember that if you do not get something that has its own seeker and datalink, then 1 Brahmos is all it takes.

Please check video again it clearly says that newer version is 30+km range and can engage targets having size of tennis ball.

 

[randomradio]

Please check video again it clearly says that newer version is 30+km range and can engage targets having size of tennis ball.

Okay. I stand corrected about the range.

 

[Basel]

Okay. I stand corrected about the range.

Watch video from 16:49 to 17:05 it clearly says "hit four targets up to 32km".

 

[randomradio]

Watch video from 16:49 to 17:05 it clearly says "hit four targets up to 32km".

Sure. That's why I said I stand corrected. It means I agree with what you said about the range.

 

[Basel]

Sure. That's why I said I stand corrected. It means I agree with what you said about the range.

Newer Tor with Buk-M3 & Pansir SAM combined can create very potent air defense for ground forces specially with air cover is not available against enemy air Force.

 

[randomradio]

Newer Tor with Buk-M3 & Pansir SAM combined can create very potent air defense for ground forces specially with air cover is not available against enemy air Force.

Tor and Buk are completely different systems. They are not in the same class. For the navy, the Buk is called Shilka.

 

[Chimgathar]

These photos are from china weapons export forum, check the different radar and fire control system. At least these systems could be upgraded on PN F22-Ps.