Mid-life upgrade for F22P

[Tank131]

Pretty much why I think the F-22P will get Chinese radars and weapons.

Im ok with that provided they are the right ones. But in my opinion I dont actually think they will upgrade it at all in the near future due to costs. They are getting 4 Milgem (Likely to be underarmed, just like F-22P) and 4 Type 054A, and 8 AIP subs. With all that, i think F-22P is lower on the list of priorities. That is why i suggested an inexpensive upgrade centered around Pantsir-M. Putting 2 systems on each ship i think is very doable and exchanging FM-90 for either a 24cell FL-3000N OR another Pantsir-M would also be very doable. I doubt it would cost even 20M per ship including upgrading the electronics be they Turkish (smart S mk2) or Chinese (ly-80N radar). Would i love to see a VLS system (probably 12 cell) with LY-80/HQ-16 or better yet, a quad packed variant of DK-10...absolutely...but i dont think that is in the cards any time soon. The addition of 16 missiles with 20-30km range, AND either 24 9km missiles vs an additional 8 20-30km missiles would change the senario for F-22P. Replace 8 missiles of 15km range with 16 missiles of 20-30km range AND 24 missiles of 9km range for cheap is a win win in my book.

 

[syed_yusuf]

Im ok with that provided they are the right ones. But in my opinion I dont actually think they will upgrade it at all in the near future due to costs. They are getting 4 Milgem (Likely to be underarmed, just like F-22P) and 4 Type 054A, and 8 AIP subs. With all that, i think F-22P is lower on the list of priorities. That is why i suggested an inexpensive upgrade centered around Pantsir-M. Putting 2 systems on each ship i think is very doable and exchanging FM-90 for either a 24cell FL-3000N OR another Pantsir-M would also be very doable. I doubt it would cost even 20M per ship including upgrading the electronics be they Turkish (smart S mk2) or Chinese (ly-80N radar). Would i love to see a VLS system (probably 12 cell) with LY-80/HQ-16 or better yet, a quad packed variant of DK-10...absolutely...but i dont think that is in the cards any time soon. The addition of 16 missiles with 20-30km range, AND either 24 9km missiles vs an additional 8 20-30km missiles would change the senario for F-22P. Replace 8 missiles of 15km range with 16 missiles of 20-30km range AND 24 missiles of 9km range for cheap is a win win in my book.

i totally agree. this is very practical. if we add 16 SSM instead of 8 will also be good. more like 16 herba will just do it.

 

[randomradio]

Im ok with that provided they are the right ones. But in my opinion I dont actually think they will upgrade it at all in the near future due to costs. They are getting 4 Milgem (Likely to be underarmed, just like F-22P) and 4 Type 054A, and 8 AIP subs. With all that, i think F-22P is lower on the list of priorities. That is why i suggested an inexpensive upgrade centered around Pantsir-M. Putting 2 systems on each ship i think is very doable and exchanging FM-90 for either a 24cell FL-3000N OR another Pantsir-M would also be very doable. I doubt it would cost even 20M per ship including upgrading the electronics be they Turkish (smart S mk2) or Chinese (ly-80N radar). Would i love to see a VLS system (probably 12 cell) with LY-80/HQ-16 or better yet, a quad packed variant of DK-10...absolutely...but i dont think that is in the cards any time soon. The addition of 16 missiles with 20-30km range, AND either 24 9km missiles vs an additional 8 20-30km missiles would change the senario for F-22P. Replace 8 missiles of 15km range with 16 missiles of 20-30km range AND 24 missiles of 9km range for cheap is a win win in my book.

The most viable upgrade is to keep everything else as it is and replace the FM-90 with a HQ-16, whatever number will fit in that small space, probably 16.

 

[syed_yusuf]

or add dual fl-3000N 24 cell instead of fm-90 and replace ciws 730 with ciws 1130. and that will do it too. but electronics need to be upgraded specially for surveillance and motioning

 

[FuturePAF]

The most viable upgrade is to keep everything else as it is and replace the FM-90 with a HQ-16, whatever number will fit in that small space, probably 16.

Structural Modifications and the costs are what are holding back the PN from spending on these ships over buying new ships. If the Aft Radar can be removed, and an 8 cell HQ-16 installed it would leave the front open for an upgraded fl-3000n. In the rear add a type 730. It layers the defenses. The main mast will also need to become an integrated mast to speed up detection-engagement times.

 

[randomradio]

Structural Modifications and the costs are what are holding back the PN from spending on these ships over buying new ships. If the Aft Radar can be removed, and an 8 cell HQ-16 installed it would leave the front open for an upgraded fl-3000n. In the rear add a type 730. It layers the defenses. The main mast will also need to become an integrated mast to speed up detection-engagement times.

The ship is too small if you're looking to match the firepower of a modern frigate.

 

[FuturePAF]

The ship is too small if you're looking to match the firepower of a modern frigate.

The modifications I stated above can fit into the hull of the F-22P with some modifications. If you consider those modifications to make it a "Modern Frigate", then I guess its an upgrade to a modern frigate.

 

[randomradio]

The modifications I stated above can fit into the hull of the F-22P with some modifications. If you consider those modifications to make it a "Modern Frigate", then I guess its an upgrade to a modern frigate.

The problem is you can't get rid of the aft radars, two of them are important. The VHF antenna can go, but that won't give you enough space.

If it is possible to engineer the HQ-16 in place of the FM-90, then that will make it a full-fledged frigate. Newer versions have an active seeker and are available for export.

Another option is to replace the CIWS with Pantsir-ME.

Best case is if you managed both HQ-16 and Pantsir-ME.

 

[FuturePAF]

The problem is you can't get rid of the aft radars, two of them are important. The VHF antenna can go, but that won't give you enough space.

If it is possible to engineer the HQ-16 in place of the FM-90, then that will make it a full-fledged frigate. Newer versions have an active seeker and are available for export.

Another option is to replace the CIWS with Pantsir-ME.

Best case is if you managed both HQ-16 and Pantsir-ME.

I agree it will take structural modification, but upgrading these $175 Million Ships need to be done, as a $25 million upgrade will make it almost as good as a Type 054A frigate at a lot lower cost, and our shipyards are configured to build more F-22P.

I agree HQ-16 would be ideal if in the front. but unless the deck space is extended 8 HQ-16 maybe hard to fit. Where the VHF antenna is, that space can be rebuilt to house the HQ-16 and leave the forward space open for a Pantsir system, and a pantsir can be placed at the absolute rear as well. Radar technology has advanced since the F-22P has come along, an integrated mast is being used on the new Type 55 Destroyer. A similar mast should be studied. Something liek the Australian CEAFAR 2 Mast.

 

[Basel]

The problem is you can't get rid of the aft radars, two of them are important. The VHF antenna can go, but that won't give you enough space.

If it is possible to engineer the HQ-16 in place of the FM-90, then that will make it a full-fledged frigate. Newer versions have an active seeker and are available for export.

Another option is to replace the CIWS with Pantsir-ME.

Best case is if you managed both HQ-16 and Pantsir-ME.

If HQ-16 is longer in size than DK-10 then later should be tested and if capable as per requirements then adopted. DK-9C (IR) is also available with DK-10.

Also PN is looking into South African SAMs too.

This is land version of DK-10.

 

[randomradio]

I agree it will take structural modification, but upgrading these $175 Million Ships need to be done, as a $25 million upgrade will make it almost as good as a Type 054A frigate at a lot lower cost, and our shipyards are configured to build more F-22P.

I agree HQ-16 would be ideal if in the front. but unless the deck space is extended 8 HQ-16 maybe hard to fit. Where the VHF antenna is, that space can be rebuilt to house the HQ-16 and leave the forward space open for a Pantsir system, and a pantsir can be placed at the absolute rear as well. Radar technology has advanced since the F-22P has come along, an integrated mast is being used on the new Type 55 Destroyer. A similar mast should be studied. Something liek the Australian CEAFAR 2 Mast.

I'm not sure if a ship can be directly upgraded with an integrated mast. We are upgrading the Delhi class now, and even that is not getting an integrated mast.

You can imagine the kind of work involved.

So you are likely stuck with the current superstructure.

If HQ-16 is longer in size than DK-10 then later should be tested and if capable as per requirements then adopted. DK-9C (IR) is also available with DK-10.

Also PN is looking into South African SAMs too.

This is land version of DK-10.

Yeah, the DK-10 is a much more realistic option compared to the HQ-16. Even the Umkhonto. Either way you need a cold launched system.

 

[FuturePAF]

I'm not sure if a ship can be directly upgraded with an integrated mast. We are upgrading the Delhi class now, and even that is not getting an integrated mast.

You can imagine the kind of work involved.

So you are likely stuck with the current superstructure.



Yeah, the DK-10 is a much more realistic option compared to the HQ-16. Even the Umkhonto. Either way you need a cold launched system.

The mast doesn't have to be as big as that on the Delhi Class; but a modest mast with cutout for the various sensors and Comms. Similar to the Australian CEAFAR mast except with a Smart S Mk.2 on top as in the Milgem Corvette.

 

[randomradio]

The mast doesn't have to be as big as that on the Delhi Class; but a modest mast with cutout for the various sensors and Comms. Similar to the Australian CEAFAR mast except with a Smart S Mk.2 on top as in the Milgem Corvette.

Do the Chinese have an integrated mast of this class already? I don't see them making one specially for PN alone. They have chosen to design integrated masts on newer ships instead.

An integrated mast on the F-22P is unrealistic.

 

[FuturePAF]

Do the Chinese have an integrated mast of this class already? I don't see them making one specially for PN alone. They have chosen to design integrated masts on newer ships instead.

An integrated mast on the F-22P is unrealistic.

It is not unrealistic; Here is the Mast, Imagine a Smart S Mk.2 on top, with IFF just underneath, Imagine alternating S band and X band Radar on the eight sides, and their is room for Comms antennas below.
https://d.radikal.ru/d15/1803/98/beff81be82cb.jpg

 

[randomradio]

It is not unrealistic; Here is the Mast, Imagine a Smart S Mk.2 on top, with IFF just underneath, Imagine alternating S band and X band Radar on the eight sides, and their is room for Comms antennas below.
https://d.radikal.ru/d15/1803/98/beff81be82cb.jpg

The mast itself isn't the problem. Matching the F-22P with the mast will be the problem. This is something for the designers to figure out. So let's see what happens.