MH17 downed by Russian military missile system, say investigators

[A.P. Richelieu]

Just because something is paraded doesn't mean it's in active service. T-34 is paraded all the time. I don't see Russia army using T-34 in battle these days. I don't see Russia army even using 1980s T-72 in Syria. I see Russia army only using 2000s T-90A in Syria.

Russia frontline units have 2000s Buk M2, not 1980s Buk 1. Get that through your head. The 1986 Buk 1 was shot by either Ukraine army or former Ukraine army, not by Russia army.

Russia dont use their Category C stuff on missions like Syria.
They use Category A.
They would still use T-55s in a war.
The BUK 1 is still useful for category C (and for shipping to Ukrainan Rebels).
Still no sources saying otherwise.

Name calling now you little fagot. I'm not Russian nor am I obsessed about Russia like you are. You white people sort your own problems out and stay out of Asia.

You certainly repeat the Russian Narrative almost word for word.
Writing that last comment from Canada makes You a hypocrite.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Russia dont use their Category C stuff on missions like Syria.
They use Category A.
They would still use T-55s in a war.
The BUK 1 is still useful for category C (and for shipping to Ukrainan Rebels).
Still no sources saying otherwise.

There are no Buk 1 in active Russian service. Maybe for parade, that's it. Russian army uses Buk M2 made in the 2000s. Ukrainian rebels are former Ukrainian army. They have plenty of Buk 1 at their disposal, no need for shipment from Russia.

You certainly repeat the Russian Narrative almost word for word.
Writing that last comment from Canada makes You a hypocrite.

I don't care about Russia. I care about justice. Fact is, there is no evidence the Buk came from Russia.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

There are no 1980s Buk, S-300, MiG-29, Su-27, Su-24, Su-25, T-72B, Konkurs in Russia army. There are only 2000s Buk M2, S-300PMU2 / S-400, MiG-29SMT, Su-27SM3 / Su-35S, Su-24M2, Su-25SM, T-72B3, Kornet in Russia army. Russia army doesn't have 1980s weapons, only 2000s weapons. Only Ukraine army has 1980s Buk, S-300, MiG-29, Su-27, Su-25, T-72B, Konkurs. That's why after 40 Ukraine air force MiG-29 in Crimea joined Russia air force in 2014, they were not inducted.That's why a 1986 Buk cannot be fired by Russia army.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

There are no Buk 1 in active Russian service. Maybe for parade, that's it. Russian army uses Buk M2 made in the 2000s. Ukrainian rebels are former Ukrainian army. They have plenty of Buk 1 at their disposal, no need for shipment from Russia.

I don't care about Russia. I care about justice. Fact is, there is no evidence the Buk came from Russia.

Yet more Russian Narrative without any sources at all, while the investigation has proof that

• A BUK unit entered from Russia
• Rebels were happy that they finally had a weapon against the Ukrainan Air Force
• Rebels were even happier when they managed to shoot down XXX
• Happiness level decreased significantly when they realized what they shot down.
• The BUK unit left Eastern Ukraine, with one missile nowhere to be seen.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Yet more Russian Narrative without any sources at all, while the investigation has proof that

• A BUK unit entered from Russia
• Rebels were happy that they finally had a weapon against the Ukrainan Air Force
• Rebels were even happier when they managed to shoot down XXX
• Happiness level decreased significantly when they realized what they shot down.
• The BUK unit left Eastern Ukraine, with one missile nowhere to be seen.

No there is no evidence any Russia Buk entered Ukraine. No photo. No video. No nothing. If you can provide a video from start to end shot from the sky showing a Buk going from Russia into Ukraine then I will take that as proof.

Russia army does not have 1980s Tu-22M3, Tu-95, Tu-160, A-50. Russia army only has 2000s Tu-22M3M which has SVP-24 GLONASS, Tu-95MS, Tu-160M, A-50M/U. There are no 1980s weapons in Russia army.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

If Americans have any evidence, they show it. They don't have any, so they don't show it. Tell me ONE 1980s weapon Russia army uses? Does Russia army use T-72? T-80? No it doesn't. Does Russia army use Tu-22M3, Tu-95, Tu-160, Su-27, Su-24M, MiG-29, A-50, AK-74, Dragunov, Konkurs, S-300, Buk, BTR-80, BMP-2, Mi-24, Ka-50? No it doesn't. How can Russia army shoot Buk when it does not use Buk?

Russia army doesn't have Buk 1. Russia army has Buk 2. Buk 2 introduced in 2008. It's like America navy doesn't have F/A-18A/C, only F/A-18E.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

If Americans have any evidence, they show it. They don't have any, so they don't show it. Tell me ONE 1980s weapon Russia army uses? Does Russia army use T-72? T-80? No it doesn't. Does Russia army use Tu-22M3, Tu-95, Tu-160, Su-27, Su-24M, MiG-29, A-50, AK-74, Dragunov, Konkurs, S-300, Buk, BTR-80, BMP-2, Mi-24, Ka-50? No it doesn't. How can Russia army shoot Buk when it does not use Buk?

Russia army doesn't have Buk 1. Russia army has Buk 2. Buk 2 introduced in 2008. It's like America navy doesn't have F/A-18A/C, only F/A-18E.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Ground_Forces

The Ground Forces retain a very large quantity of vehicles and equipment.[85] There is also likely to be a great deal of older equipment in state military storage, a practice continued from the Soviet Union. However, following the collapse of the USSR, the newly independent republics became host to most of the formations with modern equipment, whereas Russia was left with lower-category units, usually with older equipment.[86] As financial stringency began to bite harder, the amount of new equipment fell as well, and by 1998, only ten tanks and about 30 BMP infantry fighting vehicles were being purchased each year.[87]

Russians do not throw things away, they have room to store them.
That stuff is what they deliver to the Ukrainan Rebels.

And here is proof that You are lying.

Tu-22M3

Tu-160

 

[jhungary]

Russia army doesn't have Buk 1. Russia army has Buk 2. Buk 2 introduced in 2008. It's like America navy doesn't have F/A-18A/C, only F/A-18E.

US Navy still uses legacy Hornet (F/A-18C), many US Navy Squadron and almost all US Marine Squadron still uses Legacy Hornet

VFA-37 of the US Navy Carrier Air Wing 8 on board CVN-77 George W. H. Bush in 2017

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Ground_Forces

The Ground Forces retain a very large quantity of vehicles and equipment.[85] There is also likely to be a great deal of older equipment in state military storage, a practice continued from the Soviet Union. However, following the collapse of the USSR, the newly independent republics became host to most of the formations with modern equipment, whereas Russia was left with lower-category units, usually with older equipment.[86] As financial stringency began to bite harder, the amount of new equipment fell as well, and by 1998, only ten tanks and about 30 BMP infantry fighting vehicles were being purchased each year.[87]

Russians do not throw things away, they have room to store them.
That stuff is what they deliver to the Ukrainan Rebels.

And here is proof that You are lying.

Tu-22M3

Tu-160

Russia army does not have 1980s Tu-22M3 and Tu-160. In 2000s Tu-22M3 and Tu-160 in Russia army were upgraded to Tu-22M3M and Tu-160M which have SVP-24 GLONASS which was introduced in 2000s. 1980s Su-24M and Su-33 were upgraded to Su-24M2 and Su-33M in the 2000s and also have SVP-24 GLONASS.

RT may report Russia army Su-27 and MiG-29 in action in Syria. These are not 1980s Su-27 and MiG-29. These are 2000s Su-27SM3 and MiG-29SMT. News may not be specific and mention version. They may be general and only give the general model name. They may say UAE F-16. Specifically, these are F-16E Block 60, not 1980s F-16.

There are no 1980s weapons left in Russia army.

That stuff is what they deliver to the Ukrainan Rebels.

Maybe. Maybe not. There is no evidence.

US Navy still uses legacy Hornet (F/A-18C), many US Navy Squadron and almost all US Marine Squadron still uses Legacy Hornet

VFA-37 of the US Navy Carrier Air Wing 8 on board CVN-77 George W. H. Bush in 2017

View attachment 480368 View attachment 480369

Interesting. Thanks for the find. Seems like not all F/A-18A/C were replaced by 2017. Even so, the US would never use an older model in combat when it has newer model available. No army in the world would.

US marines never opted for F/A-18E because they see it too big and too expensive. They get F-35B instead.

 

[jhungary]

Interesting. Thanks for the find. Seems like not all F/A-18A/C were replaced by 2017. Even so, the US would never use an older model in combat when it has newer model available. No army in the world would.

US marines never opted for F/A-18E because they see it too big and too expensive. They get F-35B instead.

CVN-77 was part of Op Inherent Resolve supporting bombing campaign in Syria, those legacy hornet was used in combat over Syria.



Some Marine Squadron trained with Super hornet for interoperability with the Navy when they were deployed to a Navy Carrier. And some Marine Squadron used to fly EA-6G are being replaced with EA-18G

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Russia army does not have 1980s Tu-22M3 and Tu-160. In 2000s Tu-22M3 and Tu-160 in Russia army were upgraded to Tu-22M3M and Tu-160M which have SVP-24 GLONASS which was introduced in 2000s. 1980s Su-24M and Su-33 were upgraded to Su-24M2 and Su-33M in the 2000s and also have SVP-24 GLONASS.

RT may report Russia army Su-27 and MiG-29 in action in Syria. These are not 1980s Su-27 and MiG-29. These are 2000s Su-27SM3 and MiG-29SMT. News may not be specific and mention version. They may be general and only give the general model name. They may say UAE F-16. Specifically, these are F-16E Block 60, not 1980s F-16.

There are no 1980s weapons left in Russia army.



Maybe. Maybe not. There is no evidence.

Except all the stuff revealed by ElInt, photos and witnesses etc.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Except all the stuff revealed by ElInt, photos and witnesses etc.

No evidence. Witnesses can be paid to say anything. The photos have no indication of location and time. Anyone can find a photo of a Buk with 4 missiles on google images and find a Buk with 3 missiles on google images and say 1 was fired at a plane. Does not prove anything.

Fact is, to back up your claim, you need to prove either:

1. The missile was manufactured after 1991.

2. There is a video shot from a drone that shows from start to finish the movement of a Buk from Russia to Ukarine.

If you can show either of these, you prove Russia shot down MH17. If not, you proved nothing.

CVN-77 was part of Op Inherent Resolve supporting bombing campaign in Syria, those legacy hornet was used in combat over Syria.

Do you have proof of this?

 

[jhungary]

Do you have proof of this?

Proof of what? The photo itself is CVN-77 launching F-18C combat sortie over Syria, the whole CBG is deployed.

You want proof? Go ask the US Navy.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Proof of what? The photo itself is CVN-77 launching F-18C combat sortie over Syria, the whole CBG is deployed.

You want proof? Go ask the US Navy.

Oh okay. Gotcha. Interesting they are still using F/A-18C in combat.

Even so, F/A-18C is not 1980s weapon. F/A-18A was introduced in 1983. F/A-18C was introduced in the 1990s no? I don't see Americans use 1980s weapon in combat like some people claim Russia used a 1980s missile in 2014. Seems unlikely.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Oh okay. Gotcha. Interesting they are still using F/A-18C in combat.

Even so, F/A-18C is not 1980s weapon. F/A-18A was introduced in 1983. F/A-18C was introduced in the 1990s no? I don't see Americans use 1980s weapon in combat like some people claim Russia used a 1980s missile in 2014. Seems unlikely.

Guess when the B-52 was designed?