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Meet France's Elite Revolver-Toting Counter-Terrorism Units

It jams very fast, its OK you can engage your targest fast and hit them. But in long term I would prefer the modern version of Kalaschinkovs !

Germans often go very high in the accuracy department. This requires very high tolerances/precise machining fitting and makes the system potentially very finicky sometimes (Americans saw this in their original armalite designs as well and it its still somewhat of an issue today).

For example when I disassembled my SL-8 many years ago for the first time, there was a coil spring in the trigger mechanism that needed to be fully on one side for the whole thing to work at all....it took me a few times to figure that out (and I was starting to panic a little).

When accuracy is not so much of a priority/premium, yes the kalashnikovs are a good bet, because traditionally they have had much lower tolerances and fitting....which is great for long term reliability to a large extent...especially under sub-optimal storage and damage.

Of course nowadays the AK family has come to a very nice balance indeed between performance, accuracy and reliability....by balancing all aspects.

The irony is that the G-36 suffers from the very issue it was mean to defeat (albeit the situation has to be quite extreme for it to happen - but it should have been part of the rigorous original qualification. Definitely very surprising it was not caught earlier by the quite demanding German Bundeswehr).
 
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I had seen that Nilgiri but thanks for the tag nonetheless.

Just a small word for the non-millitary members about some finer points :

The elements presented in the sort of boot camp the recruits in that video undergo at the beginning
are all true and breaking points of importance.

When I was called for my first live fire exercise, something happened that I never forgot in 3 decades
since. I was one the weak links of sorts coming in. Most of the other guys had military experience.
Those of us straight from civilian recruiting looked up to them, of course. We thought that on account
of their additional baggage, they'd outshine us every step. Live fire assault ( individual weapons, gre-
nades, 20 mm cannon ) was part of the commando pre-selection and we were nervous.
After the forest path part, as the course opened to a glacis overlooking the FOB we were to seize, the
AMX-10 spewing those 2 cm rounds 1 1/2 meter above the ground was impressive, no standing up!
Well, guess what? As I reached the open area, I found one of the tough guys, squad leader that day,
huddled miserably behind a butte unable to stop shaking or proceed and I took over the lead, utterly
surprised! The passing grade ratio was the same for both groups in the end.
Similarly, at Penthièvre commando school location, I managed despite my fear of heights while a guy
with mountaineering experience missed the "girafe" ( like the firemen pole but higher and 80+ cm away
from the wall top you jump off of ) falling meters with a definitive leg injury as an end result.
At 20, I had learned that you can't judge a man from the outside or out of context.

But as you age, you gain maturity and experience so that years later, say mid-nineties, I was working
security with an RCMP detail to protect Prince Andrew and wife Sarah at a public event when we got a
bomb threat. This agent asked me in to search a hard to reach area instead of a colleage.
We crawled for 25 minutes in a cramped understructure, having to open nearly a hundred packages.
Once out, I asked him why he had chosen me. He replied : "You were the safest one available. You
have to rely on your partners totally for such work."
He was experienced enough to judge. A couple years later, it would become my case too.

The idea here is not how great I am personally but to show that until you've lived through it, you don't
really know if you have the right stuff, nor if the guy beside you does. Many who think themselves war-
riors will fall from the first bullet. And yet these guys ( GIGN ) need to know and that before facing a crisis.
Which explains the one-year plus selection.

All for 2, 000 Euros per month! It's not a job : it's a mission, a calling!
Tout mon respect to all those the world over who do these jobs, Tay.
 
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What a great story Tay. Thanks a lot for sharing....I am humbled and honoured to know what you do!
 
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I am humbled and honoured to know what you do!

Did, mate! What I did! I now have an intellectual type job and fun sidelines.
For the latter, I can't wait to be back home tomorrow to store a boat a friend
is building that we should finish next summer.
I'm still learning all sorts of useful new stuff. Variety is the spice of life.

Good day again, Tay.
 
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@Nihonjin1051 @flamer84 @Atanz @AMDR @PWFI @mike2000 is back @Vortex @Abingdonboy @Chinese-Dragon @Koovie @KAL-EL @AUSTERLITZ @Blue Marlin @Khafee @waz @A.P. Richelieu @F-22Raptor @Guynextdoor2 @Nilgiri

Meet our boys if u didn't before. :taz:

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France’s elite counter-terrorism teams are some of the finest in the world and have proven their abilities and bravery over decades of dangerous operations. Most notable of these teams is the legendary Groupe d’Intervention de la Gendarmerie Nationale which, along with its French National Police counterparts, saw action this week during the horrific terror events around Paris.

The GIGN, or in English theNational Gendarmerie Intervention Group, is France’s premier military counter-terror and hostage rescue unit, originally formed in 1973 following the hostage crisis in Munich. GIGN belongs to a part of the French military known as the National Gendarmerie, which has no precise counterpart in the military branches here in the United States. With roots going back to the Middle Ages, the National Gendarmerie is a force focused primarily on internal security and order. Its present form is something akin to a militarized version of America’s Department of Homeland Security, with some additional FBI-like responsibilities, as well as some of the roles of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

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Since its founding, the GIGN has seen consistent action. Its members are considered absolute masters of hostage rescue and intervention, especially in high-density environments like buses, ships, trains and airliners. In all, GIGN is said to have been involved in well over 1,000 missions and liberated more than 500 hostages since its founding. These include everything from saving hundreds of passengers from a hijacked A300 to killing Somali pirates holding a large luxury yacht and its crew hostage in the Gulf of Aden.

GIGN is known for innovation in technological applications and tactical methods. It trains regularly with similar units from around the world, including Germany’s vaunted GSG-9, UK’s SAS, Poland’s JW GROM, and America’s counter-units such as SEAL Team Six, Delta Force, and the FBI’s elite Hostage Rescue Team.

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For all its reputation, GIGN was a very small force for most of its lifespan. Though supported by administrative, command, technological, and smaller specialized groups (sniper, intel, aviation, negotiators, dogs etc), the core of GIGN was historically just four troops of about 20 commandos each. This small size limited the group’s operational impact for larger potential terrorist events, but it also concentrated training to a limited number of operators which insured that GIGN “shooters” are of the highest quality. GIGN operators have such a sensitive job, that like the majority of France’s anti-terrorism units, their faces are not allowed to be photographed fully exposed, therefore they are often seen wearing tactical ski masks when operating in public.

As with any other special forces unit, disseminating fact from fiction and lore when it comes to the unit’s training practices is challenging, but it is widely rumored that a GIGN commando shoots more rounds per year than almost any other solider in the world and that deep psychological evaluations are given before anyone is admitted to the team. Training is said to be unconventional by any definition, featuring live-fire “trust” drills and placing operators in very dangerous real-world situations, such as at the bottom of the Seine River as barges pass just feet above. GIGN’s washout rates for new recruits exceed that of almost every other special forces unit in the world, with only five to eight percent of would-be members ending up wearing the GIGN badge.

In 2007, GIGN’s quaint boutique-like counter-terrorism unit size morphed into a larger entity that could respond to the changing nature of terrorism word-wide. With larger scale attacks becoming more of a threat, proof being in those carried out by gunman in Nirobi and Mumbai, GIGN needed more manpower. Some elite units within the French Armed Services—the airborne Parachute Intervention Squadron of the National Gendarmerie (EPGIN) and the Security Group for the Presidency of the Republic (GSPR), which guards the nation’s president—were integrated into GIGN.

As a result, the unit ballooned in size, but it could now put about 200 operators onto a single target at one time. Additionally, GIGN acquired new missions such as VVIP protection, and was given an even larger focus outside of France’s own borders. The changes were seen as synergistic with its core anti-terrorism mission, but some detractors claim GIGN lost much of its identity with its growth after 2007.

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GIGN’s military heritage shows up in some of the tactics that it can bring to the counter-terrorism fight. Unlike most police counter-terror units, GIGN has the French Armed Forces’ capabilities at its fingertips and has integrated tactics directly with them. These military tactics include skydiving using HALO and HAHO applications, combat diving, and deep scouting and surveillance capabilities.

Beyond direct action missions, GIGN also works to forestall terrorist attacks before they happen. A large part of its mission is to support high-profile events and protection of high-value targets during times of perceived vulnerability and heightened risk.

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GIGN’s weapons and technology include some of the most advanced equipment in the world, some of it highly experimental in nature, along with some very low-tech but proven tools. The unit is at the forefront in counter-terrorism innovation with its tailor-made access and extraction capabilities, which include bridging systems built atop SUVs and steel discs it uses to insert and extract multiple operators at a time via helicopter sling-line.

Although the group packs virtually any weapon they see fit, including sub-machine guns from Fabrique Nationale and Heckler & Koch and pistols from Glock, it is well known for its love of .357 magnum revolvers when it comes to close-quarters combat.

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For decades, and apparently still to this day, GIGN favors the French-built MR-73 and the Smith & Wesson 686. The revolvers’ heavy weight, fixed barrel, inline bore-axis, and lack of a moving slide give them an advantage over automatics. Nonetheless, times are changing and now GIGN operators are often seen packing customized Glocks, sometimes along with a revolver as a secondary sidearm.

Although the GIGN is the most notable French counter-terrorism unit, the country has other well-known counter-terrorism units. Groupes d’Intervention de la Police Nationale, or National Police Intervention Groups (GIPN) is one of these top units.

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GIPN, which sports a cobra as its mascot, was formed like GIGN after the shock of the Munich hostage crisis. It operates as part of the National Police and is focused on internal counter-terror affairs more strictly than the GIGN.
I have nothng but respect for these guys and the French Military as a whole.The more I learn of the French military the more I am impressed, they are top-notch and certainly at the forefront in terms of in quality, training and expereince and the number of elite units they have is crazy!

I would say the French military is second only to the US military (and this is no mean feat- the US is on a different level just because of the vast sums they spend on defence).
 
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