What's new

Mechanised Divisions Pakistan Army

Panzerkiel was asking me to use them as IBGs.
That's why I was thinking of them as brigade groups.
But now I get the point. You've cleared it for me.
No secrets are being given away; Pakistani military intelligence has our formations mapped down to below brigade level. The kinds of information interceptions made by our counter-intelligence show that our precise dispositions are known. It is a question of putting the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle together.

For all that follows, some disclaimers:
  • Not all information provided is for the sake of information;
  • Nothing unethical in saying the above; those who need to plan already have the correct information, and its appreciation;
  • Peacetime and war-time are different.
  1. Is it understood that Indian military stations are located far from our western and northern boundaries?
  2. ...that peacetime locations are not war-time locations?
  3. ...that resources can be added to peacetime formations, that have been exercised together elsewhere, elsewhen?
Have an enjoyable Sunday!
 
My estimates are based solely on delivery and production numbers and not regimental or service numbers, if anything it should be a general overview into the types and capabilities of the tanks, I would assume the numbers posted by Desert Fox are more accurate.

Pakistan:

VT-4P (3rd Gen+, post 2010s tech): Unknown number delivered (150+). 300 ordered, more planned.

Al-Khalid-I (3rd Gen, post 2010s tech): 110 in service, 110 on order. Al-Khalid-II production will begin shortly after Al-Khalid-I orders are complete, further 220+ Al-Khalid-II planned.

Al-Khalid (3rd Gen early 2000s tech): 400~ in service.

T80UD (3rd Gen, early 90s tech, modernized): 320 in service.

Type 85-UG (2nd Gen Modernized): 300 in service.

Al-Zarrar (2nd Gen Modernized): 600~ in service.

Type 69-IIM (1st Gen, obsolete): 200~ in service with both army and FC. To be replaced by VT-4P.

Type 59-IIM (1st Gen, obsolete): Around 700~ service. Some also In service with the FC. Few hundred more in storage. Being replaced by VT-4P.

TOTAL: 2700-2800 in service + few hundred reserves (Pakistani reserves are mostly Type 59s)

3rd/3rd+ Gen: 1100~ in service. With several hundred more on order.
(Note: VT-4P is being used to replace first generation tanks, while Al-Khalid-I and later Al-Khalid-II orders are being used to raise new regiments to increase fleet size)
2nd+ Gen: 900~ in service.
1st Gen: 800~ in service, will all be replaced by VT-4P, AK-I and AK-II.



INDIA:

T90S (3rd Gen, early 2000s tech): 1193 in service, 464 on order.

Arjun MK1A (3rd Gen) 1 tank in service. 118 on order.
Arjun MK1 (3rd Gen, performance closer to 2nd Gen): 124 in service.
T72 Improved Ajeya (2nd Gen Modernized): 950~ in service.
T72 (2nd Gen, obsolete): 850~ in active service, few hundred in storage.


TOTAL: 3100~ tanks in service + several hundred reserves (Indian reserves are mostly T72s)

3rd Gen: 1314 in service. 582 on order
2nd/2nd+ Gen: 1800~ in service.

No replacements planned in the Indian army till 2030 as per current information. I do realize that 3100 is too small to cover all the known Indian armored brigades and regiments, but the number of Arjun and T90S is 100% accurate, the only explanation might be that they have more of their stock T72s in service than is known. Which would mean lower reserves, but nonetheless, that’s the only explanation.
IA also has limited numbers of T-55s in service with frontline units mainly fitted with counter mine devices , and im guessing several T55s in reserve as well.
 
Too late. He's seen it and was

Dying to comment, but not good for a forum like this.
What’s with you and dying lately ?

Spit it out already, like a chewed up pan.

My estimates are based solely on delivery and production numbers and not regimental or service numbers, if anything it should be a general overview into the types and capabilities of the tanks, I would assume the numbers posted by Desert Fox are more accurate.

Pakistan:

VT-4P (3rd Gen+, post 2010s tech): Unknown number delivered (150+). 300 ordered, more planned.

Al-Khalid-I (3rd Gen, post 2010s tech): 110 in service, 110 on order. Al-Khalid-II production will begin shortly after Al-Khalid-I orders are complete, further 220+ Al-Khalid-II planned.

Al-Khalid (3rd Gen early 2000s tech): 400~ in service.

T80UD (3rd Gen, early 90s tech, modernized): 320 in service.

Type 85-UG (2nd Gen Modernized): 300 in service.

Al-Zarrar (2nd Gen Modernized): 600~ in service.

Type 69-IIM (1st Gen, obsolete): 200~ in service with both army and FC. To be replaced by VT-4P.

Type 59-IIM (1st Gen, obsolete): Around 700~ service. Some also In service with the FC. Few hundred more in storage. Being replaced by VT-4P.

TOTAL: 2700-2800 in service + few hundred reserves (Pakistani reserves are mostly Type 59s)

3rd/3rd+ Gen: 1100~ in service. With several hundred more on order.
(Note: VT-4P is being used to replace first generation tanks, while Al-Khalid-I and later Al-Khalid-II orders are being used to raise new regiments to increase fleet size)
2nd+ Gen: 900~ in service.
1st Gen: 800~ in service, will all be replaced by VT-4P, AK-I and AK-II.



INDIA:

T90S (3rd Gen, early 2000s tech): 1193 in service, 464 on order.

Arjun MK1A (3rd Gen) 1 tank in service. 118 on order.
Arjun MK1 (3rd Gen, performance closer to 2nd Gen): 124 in service.
T72 Improved Ajeya (2nd Gen Modernized): 950~ in service.
T72 (2nd Gen, obsolete): 850~ in active service, few hundred in storage.


TOTAL: 3100~ tanks in service + several hundred reserves (Indian reserves are mostly T72s)

3rd Gen: 1314 in service. 582 on order
2nd/2nd+ Gen: 1800~ in service.

No replacements planned in the Indian army till 2030 as per current information. I do realize that 3100 is too small to cover all the known Indian armored brigades and regiments, but the number of Arjun and T90S is 100% accurate, the only explanation might be that they have more of their stock T72s in service than is known. Which would mean lower reserves, but nonetheless, that’s the only explanation.
Which one can be built (not rebuild) cheaply/faster and thrown into reserve.

The old ones still need replacement though. Then AZ will go to reserve, after that T-85 will go in reserve.
 
Last edited:
What’s with you and dying lately ?

Spit it out already, like a chewed up pan.


Which one can be built (not rebuild) cheaply/faster and thrown into reserve.

The old ones still need replacement though. Then AZ will go to reserve, after that T-85 will go in reserve.
India cannot produce Entirely T90S locally in case of a war, it will need to import parts of it from Russia.

While Pakistan doesn’t entirely produce Al-Khalid either, the power pack being the biggest exemption, it’s clearly been seen that they’re moving to a Chinese powerpack from the Ukrainian one and have tried to get ToT for said powerpack.
similarly, VT-4 supply to Pakistan will only increase in the case of a war, that’s definitely a strategic advantage because it means Pakistan might be able to procure more tanks in the case of an active war than india, which can build Arjun’s, but they’re not too useful. As for cost, Al-Khalid is the cheapest of the three, followed by T90S and then VT-4.

Moreover, Pakistans massive fleet of Type 59s can be upgraded to AZs in the case of a war as well, though I highly doubt such an option will be considered because the money would be better used elsewhere and they’d need to source foreign parts that were not buying in large amounts anymore.

That being said, india already has a larger armored reserve than Pakistan and said reserve has considerably better Tanks than Pakistans reserve (T72s versus Type 59s and Type 69s, however the Indian T55s are comparable to the Pakistani Type 59s), so we’re currently playing catch up in that regard.

(Pakistans active fleet has considerable technological superiority over the Indian fleet, but that’s just one cog in a massive machine of combined arms so I won’t comment on how useful that will be in the long run, if the supporting arms aren’t as good, then this technological advantage may not mean much)

It will take 5+ years to retire Type 59s and 69s to reserve, and maybe a further 5-10 years to retire AZs to reserve, by then india will start retiring T72s, but that’s all highly speculative.
 
IA also has limited numbers of T-55s in service with frontline units mainly fitted with counter mine devices , and im guessing several T55s in reserve as well.
Some T-55s are operational with Indian engineering corps.
 
Could be a GSR as well. We operate quiet a few in this area.
Ahh yes GSR , that fits correctly now that I think of it , I was going for a bigger perspective that the radar antenna was much larger and deployed on the ground in the background behind the building rather then on the roof
 
LIDs are not light after all. They do have arty bdes(having more than the normal 2+1 composition). Moreover they have regular infantry bns as well.
 
India cannot produce Entirely T90S locally in case of a war, it will need to import parts of it from Russia.

While Pakistan doesn’t entirely produce Al-Khalid either, the power pack being the biggest exemption, it’s clearly been seen that they’re moving to a Chinese powerpack from the Ukrainian one and have tried to get ToT for said powerpack.
similarly, VT-4 supply to Pakistan will only increase in the case of a war, that’s definitely a strategic advantage because it means Pakistan might be able to procure more tanks in the case of an active war than india, which can build Arjun’s, but they’re not too useful. As for cost, Al-Khalid is the cheapest of the three, followed by T90S and then VT-4.

Moreover, Pakistans massive fleet of Type 59s can be upgraded to AZs in the case of a war as well, though I highly doubt such an option will be considered because the money would be better used elsewhere and they’d need to source foreign parts that were not buying in large amounts anymore.

That being said, india already has a larger armored reserve than Pakistan and said reserve has considerably better Tanks than Pakistans reserve (T72s versus Type 59s and Type 69s, however the Indian T55s are comparable to the Pakistani Type 59s), so we’re currently playing catch up in that regard.

(Pakistans active fleet has considerable technological superiority over the Indian fleet, but that’s just one cog in a massive machine of combined arms so I won’t comment on how useful that will be in the long run, if the supporting arms aren’t as good, then this technological advantage may not mean much)

It will take 5+ years to retire Type 59s and 69s to reserve, and maybe a further 5-10 years to retire AZs to reserve, by then india will start retiring T72s, but that’s all highly speculative.
In the modern scenario, the use of UCAVs makes a significant difference as its an active threat to tanks and other armored vehicles. If complimented by gunships, this combination can become deadly as UCAVs to a great extent perform the role of a CAS aircraft with the armament they carry minus the cannon. While PAA may keep gunships in own airspace, UCAVs can/will cross the border in the event of a conflict. Isn't it a relief that PAF may not be required for CAS.

Then the ATGM support on the ground through TOW and BS equipped M-113s or 4x4 aided by infantry carrying M-113s. This combination of anti-tank capability and holding ground ability by infantry is crucial in capturing territory to consolidate the advance of armored forces. So far neither UCAV, nor gunship or infantry can blitz through enemy lines like a MBT. A UCAV can soften targets by tank plinking but to advance into enemy territory, tank and APCs are needed.

There is another tactic. While UCAVs take out enemy armored vehicles, PA M-113s (ATGM/12.7mm) move in to sweep the remaining area for capturing and holding or chase the enemy. Although MBTs can chase better to cut off retreat but they do need back up by APCs. Some say MBTs are obsolete. In dense AAA and SAM areas, UCAVs may not survive for back to back sorties. UCAVs are more mobile than MBTs, but MBTs can have a high survival rate. In logistics, support, maintenance, the MBTs need a complete setup in the battlefield and mobile workshops.

The factor of artillery remains. Tubed and rocket. Guided, RAPs, anti-armor - all types of ammo. Different targets, ranges, ammunition logistics, OTH fire support. Artillery lies in support, not direct contact like other arms.

We should be talking about wiped about armored regiments, 25%, 33%, 50%, 75%, massive losses, whether AK or T90s or VT4 or T72. Replacements for MBTs in PA are hopeless. Both armies can defend their territories, but its the attacking punch through the enemy lines which starts an offensive into enemy's territory. If the replacements are soggy T-59s then GHQ will throw in reserves. Crews train on T-59 but man VT-4 now, its such a downgrade to go back to T-59s. The slow speed is another bummer. No modern electronics.

I think its the first thrust for armored regiments that matters the most, after that its a strength of replacements, logistics and support to continue an offensive. If the first ones a disaster, then that regiment will be sidelined for secondary tasks. A CV-90 or M2 Bradley like vehicle for cavalry could have an addition for back up if MBTs take bad losses but that 125mm gun wouldnt be there still and thin skin in direct contact may not be the best choice.

All in all, all these arms and weapon systems go hand in hand. MBTs with APCs, SP guns, UCAVs and gunships.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom