Mechanised Divisions Pakistan Army

[PanzerKiel]

This paid great dividends and must have helped improve our conventional planning as well.

Not at all. It was not bound to be otherwise.

 

[Raja Porus]

Not at all. It was not bound to be otherwise.

It was only for WoT?

 

[Raja Porus]

Not at all. It was not bound to be otherwise.

It was only for WoT?

What about its effects at tactical lvl? There it must've been fruitful?

 

[arjunk]

Is a 5-km long armored and supply convoy lined up on the road a good idea ?
Fuel, logistics, armored vehs.

Pros and Cons please ?


I have given diverse food for thought in posts after request from Inception-06's.
Care to chip in now.

Normally this is a terrible idea. However, this indicates that Russians are confident of their hold of the skies.

 

[Signalian]

What if AD support is required at one place and HAT support somewhere else.

One system. Two roles.
Swing from AD to AT or AT to AD.

 

[jhungary]

@jhungary I have written a little bit about human and machines in the above post. Would you like to comment it ? It would be a great honour for us I don’t expect that you favour any side, but it’s a great contribution for the readers and Members, who have other views. I am not an expert but, trying my best to learn from everyone being it Indians like @Joe Shearer or @Nilgiri ( I think that was his name) or any other nation, I am absolutely not discriminate, when someone can have great analytical discussion.

Just finish reading you post.

First of all, you need to understand war is a 3-dimensional things, you cannot just compare strength per strength (i.e. your tanks vs Indian tank, you aircraft vs their aircraft, or your soldier vs their soldier and so on) Warfighting Capability is a complex matrix and it basically focus on 3 things.

1.) The Force you process
2.) The ability you can support such force
3.) The ability you can replace such force

Explanation -

1.) Pretty straight forward, how much force you have at hand that you can use to conduct a war. It's quite obvious how much warfighting power is directly proportional to how many tanks, fighter, ships, artillery and etc you have. That I don't need to explain.

2.) Just because you have X amount of force, that does not translate to you can deploy such force in battle as a whole. For example, say you have 1700 fighter aircrafts, that does not mean you can have all 1700 up in the sky at one time and engage your enemy at the same time, some of those aircraft is going to be on down time, some of those are not going to be at the same AO (Area of Operation) and some of those are going to be hold in reserve and etc. Now, how much aircraft you can send is directly proportional to how quick you can arm and fuel your aircraft and make them combat ready. So that number you can put up in a war is not going to have the entire stock up in the air. And that number largely depends on several variable, logistic capability, maintenance capability and so on.

3.) Combat lost have to be replaced, and by combat lost I don't just mean the tank you lost in combat, or the ship that's sunk, but every single bullet, grenade, missile, artillery round, tank round, rocket have to be replaced in war, because once you'd used it, that's gone, you need to replace it somehow, you cannot fight a war if you do not have the capability to replace something. That means local industry support, local manufacturing capability.

Now, I am not try to offend you or any of our Pakistani member. Objective analysis would suggest there are no way Pakistan can keep up with the Warfighting Capability of India, any sort of thought that this is on par is not logical or unreasonable and hence damaging your own warfighting capability. Because you are building your battle on a unreasonable calculation.

Why? Number wise, you may be able to catch up, but with less manpower (a lot of logistic and replacement effort are manpower extensive) and less economic might, Pakistan will suffer on point 2 and 3 above. I mean you can adjust some different with being efficient on something or have an automated process, but the sheer manpower India can dump on maintaining war effort dwarf Pakistan, you are talking about a billion more people, that's 6 time the man hour over Pakistan that Indian can dump into any field, which mean they can replace stuff faster and maintain a supply chain longer. Simply because they have more man power to spare.

If you want I can do a more detail comparison between the 2 country using the 3 points I raise at a latter day, I won't be doing it here because it would make this post 19 pages long........

So does that mean it is lost? No. That is what force multiplier come in. Since Pakistan realistically do not have enough Warfighting Power to resist India. You must be looking at X-Factors (not that TV-show), by that I mean you need to think of something that will increase your strategic depth and does not increase the burden of your warfighting capability. Things like an cooperation with Chinese ISTAR asset, like what the Ukrainian did with Russian now, sure, Russian can destroy the entire Target Acquisition network (eg Radar, Scout, Drone and so on) but they cannot destroy the communication between Ukrainian and NATO, and when Ukrainian incorporated themselves with NATO L-3 Communication Network, which mean NATO can share information from their asset to Ukraine, which in effect can direct their Air Defence even tho their own Radar has been knocked out by the Russian. Pakistan can do the same vis-a-vis China.

The problem Pakistan facing is that Pakistan is a long and narrow country compare to India, which mean Pakistan need to focus on area denial weapon (like bombs fortification and so on) instead of point to point weapon.(eg missile) Pakistan need to be able to hit India in a wide area if and when they advance, and missile cannot do the job because 1 missile is on 1 target, say if you fire a missile on a tank, you destroy that tank, but if you drop a smart bomb or cluster bomb on a tank column, you destroy the things next to it as well. Which mean the A2/AD capability should be Pakistan first priority

Another factor is increasing the strategic depth, overland, that mean radar system, coordination with Chinese ISTAR network, you need to know what India is doing on their side of the table, which means Early Warning capability, because that will give you time to react and in term you can start the first step of your fight before the Indian Military move out from their own staging area, formulate and plan your move before you know they will hit you. You can also use the sea/coast as an extension of the strategic depth, Naval Borne Drone take up no space on land, but you can put them to work overland. I will not go so far to suggest Pakistan should get a Aircraft Carrier because that would mean escort, fuel, aircraft, which in turn will becoming a liability. What I am suggesting is for Pakistan Navy get an added function (Oh my god, this is not about COVID) to have them fight both Naval and Land warfare, thus bolstering your land force, there are several ways to do that, you can focus on the ISTAR capability like having a MQ-8 Fire Scout or MQ-21 drone (Or similar Chinese Drone) to perform target acquisition and surveillance overland or go all the way to provide a full land combat solution by employing Drones like XQ-58 and Loyal Wingman that can provide combat support overland.

 

[bananarepublic]

You forgot the most important element...
L..... Logistics.

Look look, we've got a logistics nerd.
Don't you know big tank and big gun win wars.

 

[Signalian]

Look look, we've got a logistics nerd.
Don't you know big tank and big gun win wars.

How many trucks are in a S&T battalion ?
How many 2.5T, 5T ?
How many trucks and trailers ?

 

[Signalian]

@bananarepublic

And when u have answered the above, why don’t you tell us why every cantonment had a station commander and what’s his primary role ?

Secondly, why has PA made the post of LOG AREA Commander and what’s his role ?

 

[Signalian]

Look look, we've got a logistics nerd.
Don't you know big tank and big gun win wars.

Here is a MCQ for you. A vehicle is stuck in sand. Who is the best driver option to get the vehicle out ? And why ?

A. Armour regiment driver
B. Motorised infantry battalion driver
C. ASC driver
D. Ordnance unit drive

 

[farooqbhai007]

I have a question though , PA doesn't seem to have 8x8 trucks in standard service apart for those in specialized roles like engineering , bridges etc.

 

[Signalian]

I have a question though , PA doesn't seem to have 8x8 trucks in standard service apart for those in specialized roles like engineering , bridges etc.

How are Pakistani roads, Sindh to AJK ?

 

[Inception-06]

@Signalian is blasting away the naiv Members of PDF without mercy, all the birds have gone stealth, when such discussion are taking form and dynamic ! Keep on !

 

[bananarepublic]

@bananarepublic

And when u have answered the above, why don’t you tell us why every cantonment had a station commander and what’s his primary role ?

Secondly, why has PA made the post of LOG AREA Commander and what’s his role ?

@Signalian is blasting away the naiv Members of PDF without mercy, all the birds have gone stealth, when such discussion are taking form and dynamic ! Keep on !

Bhai can't you guys understand sarcasm, really sometimes you guys get a bit serious

 

[Cuirassier]

Forgive my long hiatus, but was just wondering whether the Phase-1 order of AK-1s (110xtks) was meant to equip 2 standard armoured regiments, or 3 recce regts. would appreciate a response.