MCA News & Discussions

[Screaming Skull]

Hold your horses !
The LCA-Tejas is still not operational yet! crores of rupees have been spent and still there is no light at the end of the tunnel !
Will the Indian air force, the main buyer actually buy the LCA or go for some foreign birds where they can get some kickbacks !
All this talk about MCA is crap unless and until , LCA is inducted in large numbers and become good enough to be a mainstay of the Indian air forces !
If not, I suspect, the air force will dilly dally, change parameters and do whatever it takes to ensure that the MCA is a failure !

Well there aren't many options available with the IAF for a 5th gen bird unless US offers the F-35. This is possible only if we go for either the F-18 or the F-16 for the MMRCA.

PAK FA/FGFA too will take a long time to develop. Moreover, most likely they will belong to the heavy fighters category and are expected to be quite expensive too.

By 2020-2030 when the MRCA, MKI etc. get outdated the IAF will have to look for worthy replacements and preferably 5th gen. Hence, the requirement for an indigenous 5th gen medium category fighter can not be overlooked.

Also, going by the present economic trend I think only India and China (apart from US of course) can afford to spend on such an ambitious project. 'If we do pull it off' then imagine the export potential for such an aircraft in Europe, Asia, South America and non-NATO countries (remember both Russia & China don't have friendly relations with many wealthy European countries, who can afford such birds. Hence, they won't be able to sell even the best birds to such countries. This is where India stands to gain immensely).

So, by all means I believe that investing in the MCA is a good option. Whether DRDO can pull it off or not is a different issue altogether. At least we realize the importance of a 5th gen medium weight fighter and we have started pretty early in its development.

 

[zombie:-)]

HAL DRDO are all useless and time wasting institutions and hence we need to start all the projects very very early onleee

NOW COMING TO THE POINT

LCA as a design is not bad at all ...except for the air intake part.... its engines and radar were undecided i.e, the avionics part was a little blurry

now the design team of the LCA will be pretty much jobless as there will not me much issues with the airframe ....naval LCA will only come after the successful induction of the iaf LCA...... starting a 5 gen medium fighter project NOW makes sense coz india is partnering in the FGFA programme and while its still in development we can learn invaluable stuff from the russians while they are perfecting the FGFA

 

[Screaming Skull]

There is no clear cut definition for a 5th gen aircraft. Whenever 5th gen is mentioned people imagine a F-22 or the F-35. Yes these are 5th gen but they are also front line fighters and very heavy and expensive.

Now imagine 5th gen tech installed in point defence and interceptors like Mig-21/LCA/JF-17 etc. A time will come when these too will need to be 5th gen. That s how fast technology will improve and grow. At that time the Raptors will be your front line fighters and another lighter and cheaper 5th gen fighter will be required to fill in and make the numbers for an air force as the present day Typhoons/Rafales/Super Hornets will be outdated by then.

 

[Gabbar]

Let's make this the official MCA thread!! I would hate to the MCA news scatered though out this forum. Let's vote on it, since it is election time!!!

YES-------------------------NO

GABBAR

 

[ANDUBYLL]

Look, I would love for DRDO to develop the MCA and that to, as a potent fifth generation fighter that the world can take notice and say, at last India has arrived !

However track records make me a pessemistic. There is more at stake than development like kickbacks, sanctions etc.

Only if there is transparency, inclusion of private players like TATA , complete lack of corruption and enthusiasm from the IAF , then only will the MCA see the light of the day .

 

[Screaming Skull]

Look, I would love for DRDO to develop the MCA and that to, as a potent fifth generation fighter that the world can take notice and say, at last India has arrived !

However track records make me a pessemistic. There is more at stake than development like kickbacks, sanctions etc.

Only if there is transparency, inclusion of private players like TATA , complete lack of corruption and enthusiasm from the IAF , then only will the MCA see the light of the day .

Don't be so pessimistic bro. Fortunately, many people in the country share the same concerns about DRDO as you do.

Read this. Hopefully, it will assuage some of your concerns.

DRDO rejig likely on lines of global labs​

11 Mar 2009,

BANGALORE: India will attempt to transform its Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) over the next three years by consolidating around 50 research labs into fewer centres and moving towards more collaborative development with private sector companies. The aim is to model DRDO on the lines of globally successful defence labs in countries like France, US, Britain and Israel.

“The government has given in-principle approval to form an implementation committee for restructuring DRDO based on the Rama Rao committee’s recommendations,” a defence ministry official said, requesting anonymity.

The implementation committee being constituted by the government will try and transform DRDO into a leaner organisation, and also consolidates its labs—numbering over 50 at present—to 7-8 centres focusing on broader segments of aeronautics, combat systems, naval systems, weapons systems and electronic warfare. Almost 20% of DRDO’s projects have budgets of over Rs 100 crore each.

“The proposal also includes a hike in budgetary allocation for DRDO, up to 6-10% of the defence budget,” the person added. The organisation now accounts for around 5% of the defence budget, estimated to be over Rs 6,000 crore every year. “Given that India has to import over Rs 40,000 crore worth of defence equipment every year, the scope for domestic research and production is huge,” a DRDO official said on conditions of anonymity.

The DRDO review committee, which submitted its report last year, was formed by the ministry of defence for evolving India’s premier defence labs into a more efficient organisation, following delays in various projects for serving critical needs of the armed forces. Former science and technology secretary P Rama Rao headed the review committee, which blamed inadequate project planning for time and cost overruns of DRDO projects.

With around $23.4-billion military spend in 2007, India is ranked 10th by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute in terms of defence expenditure. This year, the country is expected to spend over $30 billion in procuring latest equipment and systems for modernising its armed forces.

DRDO officials did not respond to an email query sent by ET last week. ET could not independently verify if the government has accepted all recommendations proposed by the review committee.

“There is surely a need to involve private sector more, and get people with newer ideas,” said Institute of Defence Scientists and Technologists chairman and former DRDO director K Ramchand. “We also need greater user involvement while developing some of these systems,” he added.

However, a senior defence official told ET on conditions of anonymity that DRDO’s problems need to be addressed through internal restructuring, more than anything else. “Private sector collaboration is fine, but what we need is more accountability, and even closer participation of the armed forces,” he said on Tuesday.

Several defence experts and this review committee have questioned DRDO’s ability to deliver critical projects in the recent past including the light combat aircraft (LCA), Arjun tanks, Akash surface-to-air missile and the Kaveri engine.

“The LCA project has been one of the big setbacks for the Indian Air Force. DRDO should bite what it can chew, without being over-enthusiastic,” observed a person familiar with the defence projects.

Governments across the globe have established successful private sector defence collaborations. For example, the Executive Intelligence Alliance Policy and Strategy (EIAPS) Charter forms the basis of engagement of government agencies and private partners in the UK. Experts such as TR Madan Mohan of consulting firm Browne and Mohan say there is a compelling need for DRDO to benchmark with the global best in order to become more efficient by establishing joint proof of concept centres (POC).

“Since multiple groups are involved in a POC, preliminary design and final design development and review, the bugs gets eliminated and probability of detecting failures in the early stage of design is increased,” Mr Mohan said. “Also, multiple parties, including private institutions and individuals, are able to bring in their expertise to the project.”

Meanwhile, an official said a public-private partnership model in India’s defence sector has been languishing because of political interferences.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Infotech/ITeS/DRDO-rejig-likely-on-lines-of-global-labs/articleshow/4251712.cms

 

[Screaming Skull]

Look, I would love for DRDO to develop the MCA and that to, as a potent fifth generation fighter that the world can take notice and say, at last India has arrived !

However track records make me a pessemistic. There is more at stake than development like kickbacks, sanctions etc.

Only if there is transparency, inclusion of private players like TATA , complete lack of corruption and enthusiasm from the IAF , then only will the MCA see the light of the day .

Take a look at these videos. Will make u feel better. You will see some amazing accomplishments of DRDO that you may not have heard or seen before.

 

[old monk]

I think the design team will need tremendous help since they are translating from delta to a four poster....
also the brochure says radar absorbing composites does it mean thermal plastic (resin+carbon fiber)? If yes then do we have such facility with autoclave?

ps. how do you guys thank each other... (i'm new here)

 

[Patriot]

ps. how do you guys thank each other... (i'm new here)

This button is for thanks

 

[zombie:-)]

I think the design team will need tremendous help since they are translating from delta to a four poster....
also the brochure says radar absorbing composites does it mean thermal plastic (resin+carbon fiber)? If yes then do we have such facility with autoclave?

NAL in Bangalore is working on RAM for a long time as far as i know ...NAL deals completely with aircraft fabrication ....they were using different coatings on wings ...ill try to get that news report

 

[Rajkumar]

I think the design team will need tremendous help since they are translating from delta to a four poster....
also the brochure says radar absorbing composites does it mean thermal plastic (resin+carbon fiber)? If yes then do we have such facility with autoclave?

ps. how do you guys thank each other... (i'm new here)

recently iit roorke developed metaloids based nano crystals which very effective in radar absorption specifically meant for defense as it was stated. you see coating of some new tech material on MCA i guess.

 

[sreena]

Lets make it da mca thread....
my vote...YES!!!!

 

[Gabbar]

Lets make it da mca thread....
my vote...YES!!!!

It makes 2 for yes and 0 for No! Anybody else want to vote?

 

[Gabbar]

Indian Air Force, DRDO and HAL to Frame Requirements for Fifth Generation Fighter Jet​

The Indian Air Force (IAF) and a team of aircraft designers will formally set up a joint committee to frame the specifications for India's own MCA, which will be built largely in Bangalore. The MCA's design team will centre on the agencies that have built the LCA: the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA); the National Aeronautics Laboratory (NAL); Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL); and a host of Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO) laboratories that will develop futuristic sensors and systems for the MCA.

The director of ADA, Dr PS Subramaniam, confirmed to Business Standard, "The joint committee is likely to be formed within two or three weeks. This committee will finalise what will go into the MCA, as well as the budget and development schedule." According to Dr Subramaniam, the programme will aim to develop the MCA and build five to six prototypes at a cost of Rs 5,000 crore. That is approximately the same amount that has gone into the LCA programme.

With this, Indian aeronautical designers will be working in all the fighter categories. In the light fighter category (10-11 tonnes), the Tejas LCA is expected to get operational clearance in 2011; the MCA will be India's first foray into the medium fighter category (14-15 tonnes); and in the heavy fighter category (20 tonnes plus), currently ruled by the Russian Sukhoi-30MKI, Indian designers plan to partner their Russian counterparts in developing the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA).

Interestingly, the decision to develop an indigenous MCA comes alongside the overseas procurement of 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) for an estimated Rs 50,000 crore. Senior IAF planners point out that the MMRCA procurement is unavoidable for replacing the MiG-29s and Mirage-2000s that will become obsolete while the MCA is still being developed.

By 2020, when the IAF's current fleet would have been largely phased out, MoD planners forecast a requirement for at least 250 medium fighters. This has raised hopes amongst the MMRCA contenders (the US F/A-18 and F-16, Russia's Mig-35; the Eurofighter Typhoon; and the Swedish Gripen) that the winner could end up supplying twice as many fighters as the current tender. But a successful Indian MCA programme would cap the MMRCA procurement at 126 fighters. After that, the MCA production will kick in.

The MCA designers plan to pursue technologies superior to anything currently on offer. The ADA director points out, "None of the MMRCA contenders will be state-of-the-art in 2015-2017. But the MCA will; it will incorporate the technologies of the future, which currently feature only on the US Air Force's F-22 Raptor."

India's aeronautical designers see the MCA programme as crucial for taking forward the expertise that has been painstakingly accumulated in the Tejas LCA programme. The IAF is in agreement; and the Rama Rao Committee, set up for restructuring the DRDO, has recommended that programmes must be created to provide continuity for designers.

Says a senior MoD official: "With great difficulty we have built up a team that can design a complete combat aircraft. After a couple of years, when the LCA goes into production, there will be no design work left. Without another aircraft programme to work on, we will lose this team, having attained this level."

 

[zombie]

Start of another 30 year thread.