Massive Ambush in S. Waziristan

[PanzerKiel]

Yeah but they're expensive to operate and not always there. Plus drones like CH-4 could do the job better than them.
We do need persistent surveillance platforms, especially for urban areas.

It takes some time... After procurement of new equipment, to absorb it, to train manpower who will operate and maintain it, to develop support bases....

Sir second question is are these sleeper cells in Waziristan or they are crossing the border and launching attacks. And if they are crossing the border then for what purpose we built the fence for ?

They are not crossing the border at all.... They are sleepers aided by facilitators...

 

[Menace2Society]

I'm saying that agencies should track down the source of the video. Who originally uploaded them? If we don't have the capacity, then build it. We desperately need an equivalent to National Security Agency in Pakistan.

Why isn't ISI entrenched in Afghanistan and doing the work? Deploy 1000 operatives and monitor everyone and everything meticulously. Always a half assed job with these guys its so frustrating.

They spent a billion on Afghanistan infrastructure but they couldn't spend a billion building up an intelligence network in Afghanistan?

 

[Moon]

I'm saying that agencies should track down the source of the video. Who originally uploaded them? If we don't have the capacity, then build it. We desperately need an equivalent to National Security Agency in Pakistan.

Most terrorist cells do have Telegram accounts, where they upload photos and videos anonymously.

 

[Chacha_Facebooka]

Most terrorist cells do have Telegram accounts, where they upload photos and videos anonymously.

Everything is hackable. Nothing is anonymous.

 

[Moon]

It takes some time... After procurement of new equipment, to absorb it, to train manpower who will operate and maintain it, to develop support bases...

Not to sound condescending or insulting, but shouldn't these capabilities been built a long time ago? Late than never, but then how long will it take?.

Not to mention we still haven't seen MRAPs....
Just feels like we're on a back foot.

Everything is hackable. Nothing is anonymous.

True, but in the age of end-to-end encryption, it becomes very hard.
Plus, have you seen the state of cyber security in this country? Or cyber warfare capabilities? It's awful.

 

[Chacha_Facebooka]

True, but in the age of end-to-end encryption, it becomes very hard.
Plus, have you seen the state of cyber security in this country? Or cyber warfare capabilities? It's awful.

For example, get metadata about the video(date of upload, size), then get data about people who used Telegram on that day in that district + surrounding areas, then compare data use with the metadata. etc etc etc.

 

[alee92nawaz]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1437995757429268481

https://twitter.com/x/status/1438025489294233601

https://twitter.com/x/status/1438011815590432771

https://twitter.com/x/status/1438034802305818627

Go on and conquer afghanistan

 

[TNT]

These "
These JANGLEE tribes don't want to live with peace, they haven't for the last 5000 years. So why try and impose peace and prosperity on them?
Just get rid of them and their useless areas. Draw a border excluding all tribal areas , so that the rest of us can live with peace.

Maybe ur an idiot but its stupidity to generalize all people of the areas. Majority of pashtuns and even ppl of those areas are pro Pakistan. U r giving them exactly what they want. This way all of them and majority pashtuns will become enemies of the state and then goodluck with ur state, if it exists. Dont hide incompetence of armed forces, where are all the drones and tech? Why combing operations arw not done? Where is the intelligence?

 

[TigerOfMysore]

Tactics cannot be applied everywhere...
Kehna asaan hai... In this very situation I would have done the same thing... And I've done this thing couple of times as well, lucky that in still alive though....

In a running gunfight. Sometimes emotions and exuberance overtakes you..... If the person besides me suddenly gets hit , I'll not wait for reinforcements or support, I'll definitely run after the culprits as well .... This after all is the spirit of fighting.....

Dear I am not saying that at first contact they we are not going to take a hit. All I am saying (which probably warranted more than one word), is that the first contact ideally should be smaller, mobile, recon teams. (lets keep drones out - as they are just not logistically possible everywhere). But mobile smaller teams. Then a flanking group should always be ready and ideally pre-positioned in the area, not to mention ability to do an air drop on some blocking heights. Combine this with an available gunship or armed drone to be called in. And then the ingress into the area should be intel based, not a search, sweep, clear - which will always result in high casualties.

What I mean that any contact we take where we loose 7 men, should result in the enemy's resources getting decimated. Also per your point on exuberance overtaking, that is again where training should come into play.

Perhaps what I am stating above is how things proceeded, but loosing 7 men in one op, is stinging.

 

[Moon]

For example, get metadata about the video(date of upload, size), then get data about people who used Telegram on that day in that district + surrounding areas, then compare data use with the metadata. etc etc etc.

That's possible, unfortunately telegram is usually accessed using VPNs, which make things very difficult unless you know what IP that specific VPN uses and blacklist it.
Secondly things like Tor are even more difficult to trace considering how it makes random relays which are unique everytime you make a connection.
You can catch someone who's slacking off and fails to hide their steps, but most people who use it know what they're doing. And receive training on how to stay hidden.

 

[TigerOfMysore]

What about aerostat? Why are we not using them as cheap alternative to drones?

Aerostat are not cheap - they are not mobile. They work for static surveillance, and are idea l for area surveillance or base protection. Will not work in mobile scenarios.

 

[Chacha_Facebooka]

That's possible, unfortunately telegram is usually accessed using VPNs, which make things very difficult unless you know what IP that specific VPN uses and blacklist it.
Secondly things like Tor are even more difficult to trace considering how it makes random relays which are unique everytime you make a connection.
You can catch someone who's slacking off and fails to hide their steps, but most people who use it know what they're doing. And receive training on how to stay hidden.

Actually, Tor is unsafe. A few years ago, FBI used it to arrest a child molester. Anyways, the point is that we should invest in this area.

 

[arjunk]

That's possible, unfortunately telegram is usually accessed using VPNs, which make things very difficult unless you know what IP that specific VPN uses and blacklist it.
Secondly things like Tor are even more difficult to trace considering how it makes random relays which are unique everytime you make a connection.
You can catch someone who's slacking off and fails to hide their steps, but most people who use it know what they're doing. And receive training on how to stay hidden.

IIRC VPNs are somewhat easy to trace, especially in Pakistan where they are banned. You stand out against the vast sea of regular connections which makes it easy to track you down.

 

[TNT]

Some morons here suggest killing ppl of the area, while govt allows afghans who abuse Pakistan daily. Why not grow a pair and kick them out first?
Also the racist idiots here need to realize there was a brutal military operation in Waziristan. I have witnessed military ops and i know how cruel and generalistic they can get. It creates immense hatred for army among the locals. I have seen myswlf how innocent ppl were killed in ops and it all have an effect. The same effect have caused hatred among ppl of Waziristan. Its still not that bad but if we act harshly on all, it will increase hatred. We need to identify the specific fasaadis and eliminate them. We need to remove all refugees and not allow anymore.

 

[TigerOfMysore]

IIRC VPNs are somewhat easy to trace, especially in Pakistan where they are banned. You stand out against the vast sea of regular connections which makes it easy to track you down.

It is not that easy. Systems used for such purposes use methods to hide themselves. It is a cat and mouse.

This issue was raised back in 1998. At that point we had idiots running key positions that made these decisions. They often gave dumb retorts like our system is "hack proof" we run our own fibre network for comms. When you have such duffers running critical areas for 3 years stints and then move on - you'll never be able institutionalize the level of excellence required. Add to this resource limitation and prioritization - and you get small pockets of capabilities, OTS purchasing, script kiddies (website defacing), old HW crypto for comms, compromised Foreign Embassy comms through outdated HW crypto system (thanks to NRTC), and other things that will make you grab your head in disbelief at the idiocy.

And finally there is an institutional tug and war, on who owns this domain. That dilutes the effort, in an area where deep expertise over time is required. Result - is BS capability, and idiots who will say "Sir we stopped the hack, we pulled the system offline when we first found out" - chapter closed. (major GHQ breach likely from Israelis).

My advice is and has been (for over 2 decades): Create a joint command structure under the CJCS - bring all branches together with Intel (MI, ISI - not IB). IB is swiss cheese. Have a non-uniformed DG (someone with deep knowledge and skills), alongwith an operational DG that is uniformed. One builds capabilities and one applies. And my vote to start off with would be a DG from the PAF, as I find them more attuned to these sort of threats. Though DG positions should be rotational. Also DG slots should be for 6 years not 3.