Man Who Killed The USSR | General Akhtar Abdul Rehman.

[muse]

@Silverblaze @muse

Gentlemen, you may not believe this but Gen Akhtar was against extremists among the 7 parties. 3 of them were lead by fanatics, Sayyaf,Hikmatyar and a third one's who's name i'll write as soon as i remember it again.

Matter of fact, those 3 received 'direct funds from the gulf bypassing ISI'. Yes it also means, ISI didn't have substantial authority over their ops. What must be noted is that happened after 1979's 'holy revolution' in Iran.

Our nation was subjected to a war of ideologies. Both Arabs and Iranians were trying to 'win over' Pakistan to their camp. Zia relied on fundamentalists, for obvious political reasons,using JI as his 'shurta'.

That' certainly one interpretation.

 

[Silverblaze]

@Silverblaze @muse

Gentlemen, you may not believe this but Gen Akhtar was against extremists among the 7 parties. 3 of them were lead by fanatics, Sayyaf,Hikmatyar and a third one's who's name i'll write as soon as i remember it again.

Matter of fact, those 3 received 'direct funds from the gulf bypassing ISI'. Yes it also means, ISI didn't have substantial authority over their ops. What must be noted is that happened after 1979's 'holy revolution' in Iran.

Our nation was subjected to a war of ideologies. Both Arabs and Iranians were trying to 'win over' Pakistan to their camp. Zia relied on fundamentalists, for obvious political reasons,using JI as his 'shurta'.

Firstly, glad to see excellent academic discussion initiated by you on this topic without any biases.

I slightly disagree, I have read many a material on this topic both by pro afghan war contingent and anti ones.

I have followed your articles and one thing is certain that Pakistan was being used as a transit route by everyone.

Unfortunately, some power players deliberately allowed some funding to continue uninterrupted due to some commissions; this fact has been corroborated by none other than Gen Gul himself in one of his interviews with Dr. Masood.

The bottom line is that from a strategic point of view, this operation was matchless even bigger than some in South America, but its economic, social and cultural aspects were very completely sidelined.

 

[Silverblaze]

Had Gen Akhtar survived, would he have been a supporter of allowing extremist ideology such influence in society? I wonder if there is any scholarship that may allow us to consider this

Well the General is gone so we will never know. The results of his actions can be interpreted with great pride in the military sense and still are, but from other aspects, they are not that good.

If we go by the assumption that war, no matter how ravishingly lucrative it might be, is just wrong, this war also wasn't exactly good for Pakistan. It mutated into something very bad.

 

[Kompromat]

I for one usually like to keep a soldier's actions restricted to 'his opearational requirements and results.'

Akhtar was a calm,collected and quiet. He was thought to become COAS but instead he was given JCSC because zia had no plans to leave.

 

[Donatello]

And that my friend is the reason why Pakistan is where it is today. He under Zia ul-Haq, with CIA support gave the Mujaheddin weapons, military training and financial support. The decade-long war resulted in millions of Afghans fleeing their country, mostly to Pakistan and Iran, changing the demography of Pakistan's North West. Hundreds of thousands of Afghan civilians were killed in addition to the participants in the war.

And thus was born the Jehadist movement which splintered into dozens of other terror groups, one of them being the TTP responsible for the deaths of 50,000 Pak soldiers and civilians, and has all but destroyed Pakistan's economy.

What has Pakistan achieved by fighting America's war against the Soviets? In the late 1980s, Pakistani prime minister Benazir Bhutto, concerned about the growing strength of the Islamist movement, told President George H. W. Bush, "You are creating a Frankenstein."

How true! A Frankenstein monster that has now come to haunt Pakistan itself. For General Akhtar Abdul Rehman, Brig M Yousaf, and the Pakistani Establishment, is this something to be proud of?

Here comes the history lesson as taught in Indian schools.

 

[shuntmaster]

When it comes to the Afghan-Soviet war, most Pakistanis suffer from Schizophrenia. One one hand they take pride that they were the ones who brought down the mighty soviet superpower singlehandedly. On the other hand they also claim that US is responsible for creation of Al-Qaeda and Taliban. Its high time Pakistanis make up their mind when they take credit for all the events that have happened in the Afghanistan-Pakistan region in past three decades.

If Pakistan does take credit for bringing down a superpower, then India can take credit for defeating a superpower killer...


Personally, I feel the Afghan war was the last straw which broke the camels back for the Soviet Union and it was not the only cause for the breakup of USSR. US and KSA had a big hand in putting together this heavy straw on soviet camel.

 

[OrionHunter]

Here comes the history lesson as taught in Indian schools.

Huh? And what pray, are they teaching in Pakistani schools? Is what I've written taught in our schools? NOPE! This is after a lot of research and study from international publications and not from any Indian source.

In other words, according to you guys, the whole world is wrong except the propaganda dished out by your establishment to keep you Pakistanis always in the dark and far away from the truth as possible.

And that my friend is the reason why Pakistan is where it is today.

Deny ignorance, deny false propaganda, so that you can take corrective measures. By stonewalling and obfuscating the truth, you'll continue to go deeper in the sinkhole.

 

[mughaljee]

Respect able, Aeronaut
I strongly feels that, Today ISI should led by a Imaginary Persons. (My personal views)

 

[IND151]

U.S.S.R didnt drop a single bomb on Pakistani soil, even they were fully aware of the fact that training camps and sanctuaries of mujahideeen were operating from FATA....

Without CIA and ISI support and stingers , Afghans couldnt have killed 13000 russian troops , could have been around 4000-5000 casualties of russians in a decade . It should be remembered that it was tough resistance of afghans to communists for two or three years that caught the attention of CIA...

The credit goes to Afghans, upto 1986 they were fighting with super power with just AK47.....like present day talibans they were helpless against air power of soviets.......in 1986 the america's stingers changed the game, Afghans shot 310 aircrafts with stingers...........

That's what I said

The Mujahiddins fought with bravery and deserve credit for that, but the help of the powers which helped Pak to raise a force of over 1,00,000 Mujaheddin can't be ignored

 

[satishkumarcsc]

The USSR was fighting a half hearted war.

VIOLENCE, If it is not giving you results you are simply not using enough of it.

 

[vostok]

There is only one man, who can tell that he is killer of USSR - Gorbachev. There were no problems in the state that could not be solved. This man is an agent of British and Americans. Once he said in American university, that he had a plan, how to destroy the USSR. Thats why he is cavalier of many western orders. That's why he celebrated his anniversary in London and all western politics was there and Madonna song him a song. For everybody in former USSR - he is a traitor, Judah. But fow westerners he is a hero!

 

[Kompromat]

@IND151

No the US wouldn't have. They told us to **** off in 1965, when according to SEATO, they were supposed to send a naval battle group to help us in the fight.

Pakistan US trust died on 6th Sept 1965.

 

[Kompromat]

@satishkumarcsc

They were fighting one of the most determined and fearsome gurilla force in human history. One Russian commander noted.

"How can you defeat an enemy,who looks right into the barrel of your gun and sees heaven?"

 

[satishkumarcsc]

@satishkumarcsc

They were fighting one of the most determined and fearsome gurilla force in human history. One Russian commander noted.

"How can you defeat an enemy,who looks right into the barrel of your gun and sees heaven?"

Burn him and all his followers to dust and set an example and burn even those who are agitated by that...That is how you fight these guys.

Napalm can solve all your problems...thats why it was invented.

You have read about WW2 and you pretty well must know how the Russians actually fight.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

@satishkumarcsc

They were fighting one of the most determined and fearsome gurilla force in human history. One Russian commander noted.

"How can you defeat an enemy,who looks right into the barrel of your gun and sees heaven?"

Easy. By sending him to heaven.