Maldives President's visit to Pakistan: Why India must remain cautious

[my2cents]

Yes there is a Mutual benefits on Economic Level but when Geopolitics comes equation then it becomes a Competition and one win one lose game that is the problem here in South Asia. For Years in last Century when India was most Influential in the region South Asian Countries didnt got any Economic benefits despite of being most Strategically Located but when Chinese started flexing their influence all these countries started making Progress. That is the case here in South Asia and Indian attitude towards any development have not been encouraging as well in this regards.

You are utterly wrong in your assessment regarding India's role in south asia. There are many projects that were financed by India and we are continuously doing the same.We want to make south asia a regional trading powerhouse.

GMR an Indian company even financed the Maldives airport during the previous govt. regime. This new nut case president threw the contract and last I heard he owns 800 million dollars to GMR for the losses it suffered. Because of this India stopped all aid (about $100 million) to Maldives. Maybe they are seeking aid from Pakistan to come out of this financial mess. Good luck to Maldives and Pakistan friendship.

 

[Ragnar]

You are right Globalization has an impact on South Asia but Chinese Interest in South Asia has also gave a strong message to India of not to ignore the neighborhood they are living with. Humbantuta Port, Gwadar Port and Kurakuram Highway like Projects have never been taken place by IMF or US/UK investments and these are the major Development even Srilanka was fighting its Decade old Conflict with LTTE with India being unreliable in supporting them for conflict before Chinese started to flex their influence in the region and end of the conflict has also Fueled any economic development that Srilanka have witnessed for a long time. It was mostly Chinese and Pakistani Assistance that made it Possible on the first Place. So its not completely US/UK or IMF or Globalization Wonders but their are regional Geopolitics have also made its influence in the region.

You are talking as if India was sitting on bucketloads of cash but unwilling to share? or implying India blocked all attempts by outsiders to invest in South Asia. Both are not true. We are all in the same boat in South Asia.No one was willing to invest at all here. No oil, no minerals, dirt poor and a lot of hungry mouths. Globalization changed that. Suddenly, Malthusian disaster became demographic dividend. You gave 3-4 examples of Chinese projects. There are hundreds of World Bank projects that made a real difference in South Asia. There is no knowing how Chinese influence will develop in South Asia. We will obviously try to block attempts that may threaten our interests.

 

[Gazi]

You are utterly wrong in your assessment regarding India's role in south asia. There are many projects that were financed by India and we are continuously doing the same.We want to make south asia a regional trading powerhouse.

For last 40 to 50 years when India Dominates South Asia what was the condition of South Asian Economy?All those projects you are referring to have yield very little compare to where China brought investment in the region. Even Srilanka was fighting LTTE for Decades when India use to dominate South Asia while when China comes to flex its Influence Srilanka Finally overcame their Internal Conflict.

GMR an Indian company even financed the Maldives airport during the previous govt. regime. This new nut case president threw the contract and last I heard he owns 800 million dollars to GMR for the losses it suffered. Because of this India stopped all aid (about $100 million) to Maldives. Maybe they are seeking aid from Pakistan to come out of this financial mess. Good luck to Maldives and Pakistan friendship.

All these Projects only get started when India strangle in fear of Chinese influence in the region otherwise India doesnt have any will available to develop South Asia. That is why Chinese Influence is Beneficial because it would start Competition between India and China and these South Asian Countries would benefit from it.

You are talking as if India was sitting on bucketloads of cash but unwilling to share? or implying India blocked all attempts by outsiders to invest in South Asia. Both are not true. We are all in the same boat in South Asia.No one was willing to invest at all here. No oil, no minerals, dirt poor and a lot of hungry mouths. Globalization changed that. Suddenly, Malthusian disaster became demographic dividend. You gave 3-4 examples of Chinese projects. There are hundreds of World Bank projects that made a real difference in South Asia. There is no knowing how Chinese influence will develop in South Asia. We will obviously try to block attempts that may threaten our interests.

India wasnt holding Bucket load of cash and not sharing but India had put Blind Eye on South Asian Conflicts and LTTE is the best Example of it. If Srilanka could get rid of LTTE back in 1990s they would be much Better off today because that Internal Conflict taking all Chances for Srilanka in Economic Development. China invested in Kurakaram Highway back in 1970s even they were almost equal to India Economically or even worse. Those 2-3 Projects are MOST MAJOR in whole of South Asia funded by foreign Entity so that is why I mentioned them only otherwise their are so many others as well as Gwadar Project is Followed with Whole economic Corridor and Extention of Kurakaram Highway to three central Asian Countries via China.

The Chinese Influence has Created Competition between China and India in the region for economic Development and that is what helping South Asian Countries in development of their Economy.

 

[my2cents]

For last 40 to 50 years when India Dominates South Asia what was the condition of South Asian Economy?All those projects you are referring to have yield very little compare to where China brought investment in the region. Even Srilanka was fighting LTTE for Decades when India use to dominate South Asia while when China comes to flex its Influence Srilanka Finally overcame their Internal Conflict.

All these Projects only get started when India strangle in fear of Chinese influence in the region otherwise India doesnt have any will available to develop South Asia. That is why Chinese Influence is Beneficial because it would start Competition between India and China and these South Asian Countries would benefit from it.

Only after 1990 reform Indian economy took off. Before that we were almost bankrupt in foreign reserves. Our socialist model was a failure to lift mass poverty because it did not provide incentives to major industry but focused on small scale industry. So, it was more like past two decades India has emerged from ashes to become a major player in our neighbourhood and also to some extent in international scene. Indian contribution to South Asia in terms of infrastructure development is minuscule. Sri Lanka, Nepal, Afganistan, Pakistan and Bangladesh all went through internal strife and political instability. In this environment it is difficult to provide development aid. Only now because of some stability in south asia, India is able to provide some small development aid and loans. Even China with vast foreign reserves is flexing its muscles in our region. I don't see it as major problem if it remains a development oriented investment. We just have to wait and watch China regional designs.

 

[Ragnar]

India wasnt holding Bucket load of cash and not sharing but India had put Blind Eye on South Asian Conflicts and LTTE is the best Example of it. If Srilanka could get rid of LTTE back in 1990s they would be much Better off today because that Internal Conflict taking all Chances for Srilanka in Economic Development. China invested in Kurakaram Highway back in 1970s even they were almost equal to India Economically or even worse. Those 2-3 Projects are MOST MAJOR in whole of South Asia funded by foreign Entity so that is why I mentioned them only otherwise their are so many others as well as Gwadar Project is Followed with Whole economic Corridor and Extention of Kurakaram Highway to three central Asian Countries via China.

The Chinese Influence has Created Competition between China and India in the region for economic Development and that is what helping South Asian Countries in development of their Economy.

Supporting LTTE was obviously a mistake, and we got our comeuppance as our PM was killed. Tamil Nadu is part of India and there are political and emotional considerations in the matter. Between Tamils and Sinhala, we will obviously bat for Tamils. There is no doubt in my mind on this issue. Just like you bat for Kashmiris, we will bat for Tamils. Even given the Chinese pressure, India will support Tamil rights and rehabilitation after the conflict- within the framework of the Sri Lankan Union- whatever the cost. If if means that China has a foothold in South Asia- so be it.

As for Karakoram, it is an impressive feat of engineering. But calling it most major in South Asia is a overshot. Why, did you want India to develop this for you?

As for Gwadar or Hambanthota, their long-term economic feasibility remains to be seen. We have built a container terminal too- Vallarpadam. Massive flop- for now.

If there is competition in South Asia between India and China, it is good, no?? You will not depend on one party for all needs, and have additional bargaining power.

 

[Gazi]

Only after 1990 reform Indian economy took off. Before that we were almost bankrupt in foreign reserves. Our socialist model was a failure to lift mass poverty because it did not provide incentives to major industry but focused on small scale industry. So, it was more like past two decades India has emerged from ashes to become a major player in our neighbourhood and also to some extent in international scene. Indian contribution to South Asia in terms of infrastructure development is minuscule. Sri Lanka, Nepal, Afganistan, Pakistan and Bangladesh all went through internal strife and political instability. In this environment it is difficult to provide development aid. Only now because of some stability in south asia, India is able to provide some small development aid and loans. Even China with vast foreign reserves is flexing its muscles in our region. I don't see it as major problem if it remains a development oriented investment. We just have to wait and watch China regional designs.

I can make Exception for Pakistan and Afghanistan because both sides were involved in Conflict of Global Geopolitics Level and because India and Pakistan always had Regional Conflicts but when it comes to rest of South Asia Indian Role had always being very suspicious as Internal Strive of Srilanka would have been Controlled if India was Genuine in this regards and Srilanka doesnt had to buy Weapons from Pakistan and China to control their LTTE Problems. Bangladesh was also Striving Internally while at that time India was started getting Benefits of their Economic Liberalization and Nepal was(Even Is) even Worst in this regards with Chinese Staring Influencing the Geopolitics at least it has created Competition within this region on Economic Growth and if you think it is bad then maybe say Srilankan would feel more Comfortable in this situation then having Complete Indian hegemony in the region.

Supporting LTTE was obviously a mistake, and we got our comeuppance as our PM was killed. Tamil Nadu is part of India and there are political and emotional considerations in the matter. Between Tamils and Sinhala, we will obviously bat for Tamils. There is no doubt in my mind on this issue. Just like you bat for Kashmiris, we will bat for Tamils. Even given the Chinese pressure, India will support Tamil rights and rehabilitation after the conflict- within the framework of the Sri Lankan Union- whatever the cost. If if means that China has a foothold in South Asia- so be it.

There is no Problem in Bating for Tamils in fact it is a good thing but having a Militant Outfit around is something else. India also Complain Pakistan of Militancy in Kashmir despite Kashmiri Majority Muslims are against Indian Rule but conveniently ignored when their Interest was on the line that they were doing just the same in Srilanka for despite Tamils are Minority in that Island. India can also Influence Srilanka in Accommodation of Tamils within Srilankan Establishment but instead tried Political Leverage option and that is what turned Srilanka towards China.

As for Karakoram, it is an impressive feat of engineering. But calling it most major in South Asia is a overshot. Why, did you want India to develop this for you?

As for Gwadar or Hambanthota, their long-term economic feasibility remains to be seen. We have built a container terminal too- Vallarpadam. Massive flop- for now.

If there is competition in South Asia between India and China, it is good, no?? You will not depend on one party for all needs, and have additional bargaining power.

At the time of Construction it was Most Major Project Handled in South Asia and that was 1970s and for that Many Pakistani and Chinese Engineers lost their Lives in the process so it wasnt simple thing happened back then it was Ground Breaking for 1970s standard in South Asian Region.

Gwadar does have Long term Significance because it Connects China's Western Province and at least three CAR countries as Chinese are starting to shift many of their Industry to Western part Gwadar can serve as a Port for that and its Close Proximity with Persian Gulf also gives huge benefits. Even Soviet Union was Attracted to this area back in 1980s. As for Humbantuta Port then it can serve as vital shipping Stop for Ships towards SCS countries from Europe and Middle east it also have huge Significance.

That is what South Asian Countries are doing may be Pakistan could be Exception but Srilanka and Maldives are taking Benefits from China and India both and that could help them in Economic Progress in the future as well. India may Complain about it in the end Chinese Presence right now is better for this region.

 

[Ragnar]

Gwadar does have Long term Significance because it Connects China's Western Province and at least three CAR countries as Chinese are starting to shift many of their Industry to Western part Gwadar can serve as a Port for that and its Close Proximity with Persian Gulf also gives huge benefits. Even Soviet Union was Attracted to this area back in 1980s. As for Humbantuta Port then it can serve as vital shipping Stop for Ships towards SCS countries from Europe and Middle east it also have huge Significance.

That is what South Asian Countries are doing may be Pakistan could be Exception but Srilanka and Maldives are taking Benefits from China and India both and that could help them in Economic Progress in the future as well. India may Complain about it in the end Chinese Presence right now is better for this region.

All in the future.I Don't think India has major issues with China's economic involvement. In fact, it could lead to related economic benefits for us. I agree competition is good in terms of bargaining power. But these countries should not get in the crossfire. Two superpowers met in Afghanistan, and now that country is a mess.

 

[my2cents]

I can make Exception for Pakistan and Afghanistan because both sides were involved in Conflict of Global Geopolitics Level and because India and Pakistan always had Regional Conflicts but when it comes to rest of South Asia Indian Role had always being very suspicious as Internal Strive of Srilanka would have been Controlled if India was Genuine in this regards and Srilanka doesnt had to buy Weapons from Pakistan and China to control their LTTE Problems. Bangladesh was also Striving Internally while at that time India was started getting Benefits of their Economic Liberalization and Nepal was(Even Is) even Worst in this regards with Chinese Staring Influencing the Geopolitics at least it has created Competition within this region on Economic Growth and if you think it is bad then maybe say Srilankan would feel more Comfortable in this situation then having Complete Indian hegemony in the region.

I can say the same thing about Pakistan role as being negative when it comes to South Asia.

1. Political fallout in East Pakistan and brutal suppression and rapes by Pakistani army, lead to creation of Bangladesh and refugee crises in India.
2. Political instability after 1989 exit of Soviet Union in Afghanistan and Pakistani hand in Taliban resurgence and refugee crises in Pakistan is well known.
3. Pakistan role in supporting Sri Lankan govt. in crushing LTTE and Tamil aspirations for Tamil eelam.
4. Proxy war and cross border terrorism in Kashmir.

Pakistan role is south asia is more destabilizing than constructive. Tell me one constructive role you guys have done in this region.

 

[Gazi]

1. Political fallout in East Pakistan and brutal suppression and rapes by Pakistani army, lead to creation of Bangladesh and refugee crises in India.

That was indeed the worst thing happened in Pakistan's Histiry but it was a bound to happened sooner or leter because it was Partition Mishap as Bangladesh should have been a different Country in 1947 then East Pakistan.

2. Political instability after 1989 exit of Soviet Union in Afghanistan and Pakistani hand in Taliban resurgence and refugee crises in Pakistan is well known.

1989 Political instability in Afghanistan was not caused by Pakistan but it was a Fallout of Decade old Soviet Occupation in Afghanistan and Taliban were not result of Pakistan Support but were result of different Mujaheddin Fighting war with each other for Petty Gains in Territory and that was resulting in Afghans Cutting of each other throats at least Taliban Proved to be Stabilizing Factor and also instrumental in getting rid of Opium Production in Afghanistan back in 1990s.

3. Pakistan role in supporting Sri Lankan govt. in crushing LTTE and Tamil aspirations for Tamil eelam.

It was best decision from Pakistan because it provides Stability after decade old Crisis and whatever economic development Srilanka Currently have is the blessing of that otherwise in 1996 Worldcup Australia and England Maybe had refused to play their matches in Srilanka even due to security reasons if you remember.

4. Proxy war and cross border terrorism in Kashmir.

Again it started as Fallout of Alleged Election Rigging by Indian Govt. in 1988 Pakistan wasnt Initiated that but only supported that only because it was a regional dispute of India with Pakistan.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

LAWL

BE CAREFUL FOLKS OUR NUCLEAR INSTALLATIONS HAVE BEEN COMPROMISED

Nope. They are not. Had they been, Pakistan would have ceased to exist. And we would have had to send forces to re-establish Pakistan.

 

[Jf Thunder]

Nope. They are not. Had they been, Pakistan would have ceased to exist. And we would have had to send forces to re-establish Pakistan.

LAWL, i thought a country existed by its law and constitution, i didnt know that nukes means to much to that country's existence
and awww i am touched that India loves us so much

 

[rubyjackass]

Until he leaves Chinese would have enough people in Maldives Establishment to keep things in favor on whatever outcomes and as you have seen in Sri Lanka where Establishment is still Favorable towards China while Govt. is favoring India so neither Govt. is able to use their clout nor they have Strength to do that because Opposition and Establishment together with China.

Gayoom's government has become anti-Indian. Same happened with SriLanka earlier. Both countries' China policy was only made with an intention to p!ss off India. SriLanka now normalised its relationship with India after regime change. Now Maldives is moving in that direction.

India is not worried if these countries maintain relations with China. India herself has cozied up to China. The only problem is when people hell-bent on hurting India get into power. Why else would a country like Maldives nationalize an airport? Would they ever dare to do the same with a Chinese built airport?

 

[SarthakGanguly]

and awww i am touched that India loves us so much

Indian state policy is neutral. The love is in the hearts of the people. It is misguided and self defeating. We are working to neutralize it as far as possible.

 

[Jf Thunder]

Indian state policy is neutral. The love is in the hearts of the people. It is misguided and self defeating. We are working to neutralize it as far as possible.

k

 

[Gazi]

Gayoom's government has become anti-Indian. Same happened with SriLanka earlier. Both countries' China policy was only made with an intention to p!ss off India. SriLanka now normalised its relationship with India after regime change. Now Maldives is moving in that direction.

Srilankan Political Party which forms Govt. is trying to resume the better Ties here but their Establishment and Opposition are still attached to China only because they cant Trust India as last 40 years of Conflict is a Proof for them and that Political Victory of India is only Achieved by Reactionary support against MRP(Mahindra Raja Paksay) Govt. so they will going to talk friendly but in the end Chinese would keep doing what they are here to do and same would happened to Maldives as well.

India is not worried if these countries maintain relations with China. India herself has cozied up to China. The only problem is when people hell-bent on hurting India get into power. Why else would a country like Maldives nationalize an airport? Would they ever dare to do the same with a Chinese built airport?

India is just trying to defuse Tensions with China instead of Cozying up with Chinese. Indian Establishment still sees China as a Threat to their National Interest especially in Indian Backyard. Maldive Airport thing is Part of Reaction from India in order to Compete with Chinese presence in Maldives and that is beneficial for Srilanka and Maldives to have good Relations with China because it create a lot of Competition in terms of Economic Development in Srilanka and Maldives..